Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Uriah]

6 hours ago, Keras said:

It is people with the fanciful idea of every Christian being resurrected when Jesus Returns, who add the 'all' to 1 Thess 4:16. 

On its face, that verse is all inclusive. No need to look for hidden messages.

1 Thess 4:16-  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

So when Jesus descends, who are the "dead in Christ? Any non-martyrs included? His mother-Mary? King David, Abraham, Cornelius, the people Paul was writing to, etc.

It seems that Paul must have some, "fanciful ideas."

6 hours ago, Keras said:

Re Matthew 19:28, Other than when Jesus separates the nations, Matthew 25:31-33, there is no other Judgment until after the Millennium Revelation

Rev. 20-  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Are you sure about that?

6 hours ago, Keras said:

Therefore; the Judgment of the 12 tribes, must happen then. 

So who are these people above judging?

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

The text just says, 'the dead in Christ'

Who are "the dead in Christ?" 

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

we can't determine

Incredible!

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

whom are in the primary resurrection

Tis cannot be ignored as well.

Rev 11:15- And the seventh angel sounded; ...

Rev 11:18- And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Is 'ye which have followed me' limited to the 12 here? How would we know if it is or isn't?

Seriously?

Mat 19:28-And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This isn't understandable too? Let's see, 12 Apostles, 12 thrones, 12 tribes. How does one get lost?

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

Two Israels are seen below "Two"

1.) Israel of the flesh "Ethnic" they aren't the children of God

2 ) Israel of the promised seed "The Church" both Jew and Gentile these are the Children of God

Roman's 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Shalom, truth7t7.

Sorry, bro', but you've misread Romans 9.

Each of us needs to make sure that we understand the CONTEXT of what we are reading! Look at the SURROUNDING verses, and go back to Genesis, if you are weak on the history of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = Israel.

Look at Romans 9 again:

Romans 9:1-18 (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for ...
my brethren, [my brothers]
my kinsmen ACCORDING TO THE FLESH [my physical relatives]: 4
Who are Israelites; [they are Israeliym = children of Israel]
to whom pertaineth the adoption, [the adoption pertains to them]
and the glory, [the glory pertains to them]
and the covenants,  [the covenants pertain to them]
and the giving of the law, [the giving of the Law pertains to them]
and the service of God, [the service of God in the temple pertains to them]
and the promises; 5 [the promises pertain to them]
Whose are the fathers, [they belong to the fathers]
and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. [from them came the Messiah, who is over all and is God-blessed forever]
Amen. (Hebrew:  אָמֵן 'Aameen = "Truth!")

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 

[All those considered "Israel" are not just those who came from Israel or Jacob.]

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but,

"In Isaac shall thy seed be called." (Genesis 21:12)

Quote

Genesis 21:1-21 (KJV)

1 And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken. 2 For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. 3 And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac (Hebrew: Yitschaq = "laughter"). 4 And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. 5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. 6 And Sarah said,

"God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me."

7 And she said,

"Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age."

8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.

9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham,

"Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac!"

11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. 12 And God said unto Abraham,

"Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED. 13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."

14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said,

"Let me not see the death of the child."

And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept. 17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her,

"What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. 18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand (take him by the hand); for I will make him a great nation."

19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.

20 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. 21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh (Ishmael and his children), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (Isaac and his children) are counted for the seed. 

[The children of the flesh were children Abraham had on his own, in an attempt to "hurry along" God's promise of a seed. Ishmael was the result of that attempt.]

9 For THIS IS THE WORD OF PROMISE,

"At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son." (Genesis 18:10, 14)

Quote

Genesis 18:1-15 (KJV)

1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he (Abram) sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said,

"My Lord (Sir), if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: 4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant."

And they said,

"So do, as thou hast said."

6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said,

"Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth."

7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress (slaughter and roast) it. 8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

9 And they said unto him,

"Where is Sarah thy wife?"

And he said,

"Behold, in the tent."

10 And he said,

"I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, SARAH THY WIFE SHALL HAVE A SON."

And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him. 11Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. [She had already reached menopause.] 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying [to herself], "After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?"

13 And the LORD said unto Abraham,

"Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?' 14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON."

15 Then Sarah denied, saying,

"I laughed not"; for she was afraid.

And he said,

"Nay; but thou didst laugh."

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her,

"The elder shall serve the younger." (Genesis 25:23)

Quote

Genesis 25:19-28 (KJV)

19 And these are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac: 20 And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian. 21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. 22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said,

"If it be so, why am I thus?"

And she went to inquire of the LORD. 23 And the LORD said unto her,

"Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER."

24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. 25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau (Hebrew: עֵשָֽׂו `Eesaav = "Rough"). 26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob (Hebrew: יַעֲקֹב Ya`aqoV = "Heel-grabber"): and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents. 28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

13 As it is written,

"JACOB HAVE I LOVED, BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED." (Malachi 1:2-3)

Quote

 

Malachi 1:1-3 (KJV)

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2 "I have loved you," saith the LORD.

Yet ye say,

"Wherein hast thou loved us?"

"Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" saith the LORD: "yet I LOVED JACOB, 3 AND I HATED ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

 

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh,

"Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

THIS is what Paul meant in Romans 9, not this "two Israels" nonsense!

[Keturah 123]

23 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Great name Keturah!, 

Welcome daughter of Abraham.

Thank you.

[Keturah 123]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

just breaking in … 

I wonder (selah) if, in a prophetic sense, Isaiah 40:31 could (along with many other scriptures) refer to the first resurrection—those steadfast Christians who wait, who endure until Jesus returns.  

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

- Isaiah 40:31 (KJV)

One of my very favorite verses in Isaiah.

An awesome book that has many verses that edify and uplift God's children.

Ty

[Keturah 123]

IM Honest O,

Too many folks have bought into the falsehood of a pre-trib rapture. 

God is not slack concerning his promises nor his judgments. He said he would DESTROY the earth & it's folks with a flood.......HE DID !

Nowhere can I find that HIS will not be persecuted even killed for their faith; in fact it is a requisite of many promises to be with us, strengthen us & make us OVERCOMERS.

Could he have spared his very first followers of the martyrdom they suffered.....oh yes, he certainly could have! He said fear NOT those that could only kill the body rather fear.........

The only thing in question in my mind is ....when IS his 2nd coming ? Therefore as a thief in the night so shall his coming be.

We see the signs of the times and YET....IT WILL BE WORSE @ THE END & WE MUST ENDURE TO THE END!

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

Sorry, bro', but you've misread Romans 9.

Each of us needs to make sure that we understand the CONTEXT of what we are reading! Look at the SURROUNDING verses, and go back to Genesis, if you are weak on the history of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = Israel.

Look at Romans 9 again:

Romans 9:1-18 (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for ...
my brethren, [my brothers]
my kinsmen ACCORDING TO THE FLESH [my physical relatives]: 4
Who are Israelites; [they are Israeliym = children of Israel]
to whom pertaineth the adoption, [the adoption pertains to them]
and the glory, [the glory pertains to them]
and the covenants,  [the covenants pertain to them]
and the giving of the law, [the giving of the Law pertains to them]
and the service of God, [the service of God in the temple pertains to them]
and the promises; 5 [the promises pertain to them]
Whose are the fathers, [they belong to the fathers]
and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. [from them came the Messiah, who is over all and is God-blessed forever]
Amen. (Hebrew:  אָמֵן 'Aameen = "Truth!")

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 

[All those considered "Israel" are not just those who came from Israel or Jacob.]

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but,

"In Isaac shall thy seed be called." (Genesis 21:12)

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh (Ishmael and his children), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (Isaac and his children) are counted for the seed. 

[The children of the flesh were children Abraham had on his own, in an attempt to "hurry along" God's promise of a seed. Ishmael was the result of that attempt.]

9 For THIS IS THE WORD OF PROMISE,

"At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son." (Genesis 18:10, 14)

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her,

"The elder shall serve the younger." (Genesis 25:23)

13 As it is written,

"JACOB HAVE I LOVED, BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED." (Malachi 1:2-3)

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh,

"Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

THIS is what Paul meant in Romans 9, not this "two Israels" nonsense!

Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

Romans 9:8KJV

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 4:26-28KJV

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

James 1:1KJV

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Romans 2:28-29KJV

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Edited January 31, 2023 by truth7t7

[DeighAnn]

18 hours ago, Keras said:

Get real; we live in the fallen world and death is part of our life. 

What Jesus Promised in John 3:16 - was Eternal life, that we are plainly told, comes after the Judgment. Hebrews 9:27, Revelation 20:11-15

Until that time, when ALL the dead will be raised to stand before God and the Book of Life is opened; the dead 'sleep' in the grave, without any consciousness of passing time. Eccl 9:5

You are getting a bit LOUD and forceful in your replies. I take that as you being unable to find any scriptural support for your beliefs. 

Yes, this NATURAL BODY is going to DIE, but NOT US.  And our death AND being raised up to follow Him, as children of the resurrection ISN'T like death and resurrection WAS for those under the law.  

Eternal life, not Eternal life with a PAUSING FOR DEATH back to eternal life. AS that is not written.  


John 6
49 The fathers of you ate in the wilderness the manna, and died

50  This is the bread from heaven coming down that any of it may eat and NOT DIE

51 I am the bread LIVING from heaven having come down if anyone shall have eaten of this bread he will live to the age and the bread also that I will give the flesh of Me is for the of the world life

AKA no being a part of THE DEAD.  
 

Please tell me how our father dying and our not works? 

What happens to those who died not having been saved?

Who abides in hell?  The DEAD or the LIVING

Who is RAISED up when Christ returns?   The DEAD or the LIVING


There are ONLY 2 ways to 'perish'
the first one of the natural body and
the second one of the spiritual body and soul


JOHN 3:16  Thus for loved God the world, that the Son, the only begotten, He gave so that everyone believing in Him NOT should perish but should have life eternal
 
622. apollumi 
Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).


SAVED SOULS don't PERISH, just their 'natural' bodies do. 

"And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish." Matthew 8:25 KJV

"And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?" Mark 4:38 KJV
 

2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28 KJV


"For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:" 2 Corinthians 2:15 KJV


"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV


"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:12 KJV


"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 KJV




NEVER DIE
"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." Luke 20:36 KJV




"This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and NOT DIE." John 6:50 KJV

apothnéskó: to die
Original Word: ἀποθνῄσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apothnéskó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-oth-nace'-ko)
Definition: to die
Usage: I am dying, am about to die, wither, decay.

be dead, death, die, lie dying, be slain.
From apo and thnesko; to die off (literally or figuratively) -- be dead, death, die, lie a-dying, be slain (X with).

NOT BE DEAD


Since we can NEVER BE DEAD, THEREFORE we CANNOT rise when THE DEAD do BECAUSE we will have ALREADY RISEN  

 

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's 'souls', not bodies.

Body and spirit and soul.  None lives without the other.  HENCE why we have two bodies.  

beings 'without bodies' don't speak, walk talk feel...they find bodies to inhabit so they can.  The PROOF is in the Fellowservant, brethren of the prophets and the souls under the altar in heaven...described as having feet, receiving robes, crying out...

And WHAT IS WRITTEN is VERY CLEAR about it, and BODIES we have and bodies we use and the first provides the seed for the 2nd and every seed has a body aka NEVER WITHOUT A BODY.  

The word soul is used for many different things in many ways and the context tells us how it is being used.  God formed man of the dust of the earth  that is physical.  Just as we are physical here in this realm, we are physical in the spiritual realm.  

in the resurrection who wife will she be?  ....but like the angels in heaven....in BODIES and we know that from....they neither take or give in marriage.  


35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

God is a Spirit yet He speaks and walks and talks and has hands.

doesn't change the fact that this body when it dies produces a seed and EVERY SEED has a body.  That is written so we DON'T GET TO SPECULATE.  

WITH WHAT BODY was the question, NEVER will it be in a body.  

 

 

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's 'bring with Him' in a resurrection, not 'bring back to earth'. This is misunderstanding of what's being said. The armies that follow Christ to earth are not previously resurrected believers.

Again, we have the souls under the altar and the FELLOWSERVANT and brethren of the prophets taking John all around and JOHN falling at HIS FEET.  

These are facts that can't be changed.  to EVERY SEED A BODY.  We don't produce a 'soul' upon death but a seed.  We don't produce a 'spirit' upon death but a 'seed' and to EVERY SEED A BODY.  

EVERYTHING else is conjecture based upon the filthy rags of men. 
WITH WHAT BODY do they come? 
 


 

If for we believe that Jesus died and rose again,

so also God, those having fallen asleep through Jesus will bring with Him. 

71. agó 
Strong's Concordance
agó: to lead, bring, carry
Original Word: ἄγω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: agó
Phonetic Spelling: (ag'-o)
Definition: to lead, bring, carry
Usage: I lead, lead away, bring (a person, or animal), guide, spend a day, go.


How can HE LEAD anyone who isn't with Him?  They had to have BEEN RAISED UP for Him to bring them back.  

They had to have been raised up in order to FOLLOW HIM

They had to have been raised up in order to HAVE been where He was.  

If they hadn't of been raised up, or resurrected then they would be in the grave, in death, in hell with 

the DEAD who buried their DEAD. 


Everyone WANTS TO SKIP over the NEVER die, follow Him, go to prepare a place, prayer we be with Him where He is, brings us to God, raised in glory, raised in power, raised in a spiritual body, not the body that shall be, every man in his own order, Christ the firstfruits of them that slept ect...

in favor of going from being 'a LIVING being'

to one of THE DEAD
for a body from the corruption of the earth
they call 'glorified'.  Where is the glory in DECAY being resurrected from hell and all souls at the same time? 
WHY?  WHERE does that come from?  I don't know why people think that.  (I probably was told before, but can't remember where it comes from anymore)



AND OF COURSE, the never addressed problem of the

 CORRUPTION not inheriting incorruption of the dead raised up aka still mortal

and without a judgement for 1000 years

being able to reign and rule with Christ during that time.  Who knows, maybe today is that lucky day...


Do you currently believe 'a spirit or soul' (without a body) goes to heaven or hell at the death?