Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

This clearly ties in with most believers appearing at the GWT.

In Rev 7 the group about the throne has already been judged.

In Rev 20:4 that group live and reigns with Christ for 1000 years and has already been judged.

All the rest, maybe you and I, wait for 1000 years. 

Shalom, Diaste.

NO! It DOES NOT! Don't you yet understand? The MESSIAH shall BE KING! Not just over Israel, but also over other nations, as well! That makes Him a "King of kings" - a King OVER kings, the kings' KING! We call that a "World Emperor!" Certainly, He shall reign until He is King over the ENTIRE EARTH! THAT'S why it takes Him a THOUSAND YEARS!!!

That's just not one thousand years "blown off" or "wasted" in a "peaceful environment!" There's a REASON for the 1,000 years! That's to what Paul was alluding in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28! READ IT AGAIN (remembering that the primary subject Paul is dealing with is resurrection):

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24
(2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put ALL things under his feet. [But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him."]

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (God) that put all things under him (the Son, the Christ), that God may be all in all.

VERY IMPORTANT:

*** Now, the JOB of a King, especially over Israel, was to be the "SUPREME COURT" JUDGE! Just as both David and Shlomoh ("Solomon") were! He WON'T be just judging at the beginning of His reign or at the end of His World Emperorship! He will be JUDGING THE NATIONS - BOTH INDIVIDUALS AND WHOLE NATIONS AT ONCE - THROUGHOUT THE MILLENNIUM! ***

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Where you see three I see one. I can find evidence to speculate on the possibility of two, but that to doesn't ring true.

What I'm convinced we are seeing is multiple aspects of the same event, and all references to the end of the age judgement, when Christ sits on His glorious throne, are pointing to a single time when all are judged. 

Maybe that isn't correct. Maybe it is. I refrain from multiplying in these things as I have seen that error before. People in general try to pack the eschatological timeline into a neatly arranged suitcase they can understand. 

I'm convinced our understanding of these things must align with the prophetic utterance of divine truth, not the other way 'round. So that being said, sheep and goats and GWT are one and the same, details are supplied in Matt 25 and Rev 20 that merge, not separate.

I guess we'll find out. 

 

Shalom, Diaste.

Look. The Messiah is going to reign and judge throughout the Millennium! However, when it comes to these messages, one must look at the KEY PHRASES that are included in the text!

Look at the "Sheep and the Goats" again: (I'll just list a few verses that contain the key.) [FIRST, note that this is PART of the Olivet Discourse!]

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)

31 "WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME in his glory (BRIGHTNESS), and all the holy angels with him, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY (BRIGHTNESS): 32 And before him shall be gathered all NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "Then shall THE KING say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: ....'"

(This is one of the few places He refers Himself as "the King!")

This takes place AT THE BEGINNING of His reign, NOT AT THE END!

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

- Matthew 24:30-31

So we have the Tribulation, the 7th trumpet, then the gathering of the Elect.  

 

Nothing there about a 7th trumpet; you just are presuming it. Jesus didn't say it. One should not add to his word.

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, farouk said:

@Selah7 Great verses there. I think they relate to tribulation saints, after the church has gone. (Matthew 24.21 speaks of surrounding conditions in relation to a unique future event, the great tribulation.)

This passage is about Christ's "Parousia" (verses 3 & 27), the same "the Parousia" foretold at the resurrection of the dead in 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thes. 4:14-17. Meaning that the Church will go thru the Trib. See:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2211-the-parousia-of-the-son-of-man/

[farouk]

1 minute ago, WilliamL said:

This passage is about Christ's "Parousia" (verses 3 & 27), the same "the Parousia" foretold at the resurrection of the dead in 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thes. 4:14-17. Meaning that the Church will go thru the Trib. See:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2211-the-parousia-of-the-son-of-man/

I would see a distinction between the tribulation principle (John 16.33) and the rather special and unique great tribulation (Matthew 24.21), which does not seem to involve the church, but tribulation saints.

[WilliamL]

36 minutes ago, farouk said:

I would see a distinction between the tribulation principle (John 16.33) and the rather special and unique great tribulation (Matthew 24.21), which does not seem to involve the church, but tribulation saints.

The actual scriptures tell a far different story than all the pretrib hucksters, who have made loads of money and filled their churches by preaching the feel-good "we're outta here before things get really rough" doctrine. Just like the Jewish religious establishment taught the Jews, saying that the Messiah was going to free and exalt them, when their own scriptures said he would be killed and their temple and city destroyed.

"Be ye not deceived."

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The actual scriptures tell a far different story than all the pretrib hucksters, who have made loads of money and filled their churches by preaching the feel-good "we're outta here before things get really rough" doctrine. Just like the Jewish religious establishment taught the Jews, saying that the Messiah was going to free and exalt them, when their own scriptures said he would be killed and their temple and city destroyed.

"Be ye not deceived."

I would not use the word 'huckster' when for example someone shows that in 1 Cor. 11.26 it is the church that is in view -rather than any other entity- with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus.

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

I would not use the word 'huckster' when for example someone shows that in 1 Cor. 11.26 it is the church that is in view -rather than any other entity- with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus.

What does that passage have to do with the pretrib rapture doctrine??

[farouk]

4 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

What does that passage have to do with the pretrib rapture doctrine??

1 Corinthians 11.26 definitely has the church in view, 'till He come', speaking of the institution of the Lord's Supper.

[Selah7]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Nothing there about a 7th trumpet; you just are presuming it. Jesus didn't say it. One should not add to his word.

You must believe in a pretrib rapture.  Sorry about that.