Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

The question on this thread is; Who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns.

Actually that isn't true. Here is the title:

Who is Resurrected, and When?

1 hour ago, Keras said:

The answer is: ONLY the martyrs killed during the 42 month reign of the 'beast'

That isn't what Paul told these people...

1 Thes 4:15- For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep

1 Thes- 4:16- For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

[Keras]

2 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Actually that isn't true. Here is the title:

Who is Resurrected, and When?

As no one will be resurrected before Jesus Returns, your correction is moot. 

4 minutes ago, Uriah said:

That isn't what Paul told these people...

Paul does NOT say 'all' the dead in Christ.     You contradict plainly stated scripture, if 'all' is inserted into 1 Thess 4:16   

Revelation 20:4 tells us who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns.   'ALL' the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment.  Rev 20:5

[Uriah]

Just now, Keras said:

Paul does NOT say 'all' the dead in Christ.

This is an argument from silence. (logical fallacy)

It says, "the dead in Christ"- whoever is dead in Christ is whom he is referring to. Don't make it say something that isn't there.

Once again, this distortion means that the Apostle John is forbidden from resurrection so he can sit with the other eleven on thrones to judge Israel.

Mat 19:28- And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

You disallow this man of His place with Jesus and contradict Jesus.

[Uriah]

12 minutes ago, Keras said:

As no one will be resurrected before Jesus Returns, your correction is moot. 

Who said anything about being resurrected before Jesus returns?

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Uriah said:

Who said anything about being resurrected before Jesus returns?

Right; the only resurrection before the GWT Judgment will be the martyrs of the final 42 months, who include the 2 Witnesses. When Jesus Returns. 

4 hours ago, Uriah said:

This is an argument from silence. (logical fallacy)

It says, "the dead in Christ"- whoever is dead in Christ is whom he is referring to. Don't make it say something that isn't there.

It is people with the fanciful idea of every Christian being resurrected when Jesus Returns, who add the 'all' to 1 Thess 4:16. 

Re Matthew 19:28, Other than when Jesus separates the nations, Matthew 25:31-33, there is no other Judgment until after the Millennium Revelation 20:11-15           Therefore; the Judgment of the 12 tribes, must happen then.   As Revelation 21:12-13 mentions the Twelve Gates of the New Jerusalem, where those Israelites found worthy will pass thru. 

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

Right; the only resurrection before the GWT Judgment will be the martyrs of the final 42 months, who include the 2 Witnesses. When Jesus Returns. 

It is people with the fanciful idea of every Christian being resurrected when Jesus Returns, who add the 'all' to 1 Thess 4:16. 

Re Matthew 19:28, Other than when Jesus separates the nations, Matthew 25:31-33, there is no other Judgment until after the Millennium Revelation 20:11-15           Therefore; the Judgment of the 12 tribes, must happen then.   As Revelation 21:12-13 mentions the Twelve Gates of the New Jerusalem, where those Israelites found worthy will pass thru. 

 

Who was showing John around and how and when did he get there?
 

The souls under the altar are crying out 'how long' BEFORE THE TRIB EVEN BEGINS which is way before the Return of Christ.  

PROVING SOULS ARE RESURRECTED BEFORE THE 2ND ADVENT.  

Does 'air' have a mouth that speaks?  Does 'air' have feeling and desires?  Does 'air' need a ROBE?  
OR are all those things OF A BODY?  


CHRIST LED the captivity when HE ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN.  Which is WAY before the 2nd Advent

Every man in his OWN ORDER ISN'T POSSIBLE if they all rise at the same time.  

JESUS CAN'T bring anyone back with HIM if NO ONE RISES BEFORE HIS RETURN

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

Who said anything about being resurrected before Jesus returns?

God.  

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

This is an argument from silence. (logical fallacy)

It says, "the dead in Christ"- whoever is dead in Christ is whom he is referring to. Don't make it say something that isn't there.

But the text doesn't say 'whoever' either. The text just says, 'the dead in Christ'. In my opinion requiring scope in 1 Thess 4:16 is unjustified. From this we can't determine 'some' or 'all' or 'few' or 'many'. All we have is the fact 'the dead in Christ' will rise. 

I think Rev 20:4-6 and Rev 7:14 clarifies the scope of the primary resurrection. Those two passage can't be ignored in a discussion of the resurrection as they are resurrection passages, as is Rev 20:12-15.

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

Once again, this distortion means that the Apostle John is forbidden from resurrection so he can sit with the other eleven on thrones to judge Israel.

What would that be? Jesus can resurrect anyone at any time. There isn't a limit to whom or purpose. Just because there is an important resurrection in Rev 20 doesn't cancel out any other special purpose resurrection. 

Part of the focus of this thread is whom are in the primary resurrection that rule and reign with Christ 1000 years. This group is described specifically in Rev 20:4-6. As you point out below, Christ prophesied of ruling the 12 tribes. That must also be a factual prophecy on it's own and does nothing to harm any other resurrection prophecies.

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

Mat 19:28- And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is 'ye which have followed me' limited to the 12 here? How would we know if it is or isn't?

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

You disallow this man of His place with Jesus and contradict Jesus.

I don't think that's what's being said.

[Diaste]

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The souls under the altar are crying out 'how long' BEFORE THE TRIB EVEN BEGINS which is way before the Return of Christ.  

PROVING SOULS ARE RESURRECTED BEFORE THE 2ND ADVENT.  

It's 'souls', not bodies.

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Does 'air' have a mouth that speaks?  Does 'air' have feeling and desires?  Does 'air' need a ROBE?  
OR are all those things OF A BODY?  

God is a Spirit yet He speaks and walks and talks and has hands.

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

JESUS CAN'T bring anyone back with HIM if NO ONE RISES BEFORE HIS RETURN

It's 'bring with Him' in a resurrection, not 'bring back to earth'. This is misunderstanding of what's being said. The armies that follow Christ to earth are not previously resurrected believers.

9 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Yes..."in resurrection" God will bring them with in 'resurrection'.

[Selah7]

just breaking in … 

I wonder (selah) if, in a prophetic sense, Isaiah 40:31 could (along with many other scriptures) refer to the first resurrection—those steadfast Christians who wait, who endure until Jesus returns.  

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

- Isaiah 40:31 (KJV)