Did your church give Holy Spirit guidance to receive/not receive the Covid shots ?

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

Apostate- A church that no longer teaches or preaches what the bible says, and is instead preaching and teaching something else.

Or only parroting verses without sharing love and kindness and help

[Starise]

The only contention of any kind I have picked up on so far in this thread has come from you. Sorry.

The sad thing is I think your disagreement comes from a misunderstanding.

[Starise]

Exactly.

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:15 AM, Starise said:

I don't blame the lack of ATTENDANCE on only COVID since there can be a myriad of other reasons churches don't have new members or why churches gain a few and loose a few members constantly. 

I noticed several churches in my area who might have already been weak churches for various reasons closed permanently either during or right after the COVID crisis. 

Now this is only my opinion, but an observation I feel is pretty accurate. The churches who wanted to stay online as long as possible and eliminate in person services looked to be the most likely to close. My take away- They didn't really want to have church and COVID made a great excuse to have a lazy form of church. When that went away they closed. Like some work from homers, the members grew complacent  and lethargic about attending church.  The cost? If no one shows up and pays their tithe monies the church stagnates and dies.

Interesting how experiences differ, and it is hard to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence. For example, the church which I attend, did not continue with regular services, it was "against the law" to sing in my state, lol. We went from three in person services on Sundays, to one, and that one was outside, in extreme heat and high winds a lot of the time, so not well attended. nevertheless, the giving did not drop off at all, so it was even less likely to close. Same income, lower expenses. I don't know what to attribute that to. Is that an act of the Holy Spirit? Is that what happens when you have people who are genuinely committed and not just there to be seen going to church? I don't know, but at least at one church, Covid did not win!

[kwikphilly]

49 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Interesting how experiences differ, and it is hard to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence. For example, the church which I attend, did not continue with regular services, it was "against the law" to sing in my state, lol. We went from three in person services on Sundays, to one, and that one was outside, in extreme heat and high winds a lot of the time, so not well attended. nevertheless, the giving did not drop off at all, so it was even less likely to close. Same income, lower expenses. I don't know what to attribute that to. Is that an act of the Holy Spirit? Is that what happens when you have people who are genuinely committed and not just there to be seen going to church? I don't know, but at least at one church, Covid did not win!

Two!!!! The church I attend never skipped a beat..   of course down here in Florida we didn't have anyone mandating our churches so it was completely up to the heads of the individual churches whether or not to remain open while everyone in other States were being forced to- awful,just awful!

Attendance definitely decreased but seems they all watched online because the offerings still came in as usual

I still do visit my old church of many years from time to time,that church closed & since they re- opened they sit miles apart from one another in the pews & are STILL wearing masks! Oi vey🙏

[R. Hartono]

On 9/7/2022 at 12:09 AM, Deborah_ said:

Having or not having a vaccine is not a moral issue. For most people it will be right, but for some (e.g. because of health conditions) it will be wrong. Therefore we have to make such decisions for ourselves, and a church shouldn't be dictating to its members.

And we already have guidance in God's Word. "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities" (Romans 13:1) "Don't look to your own interests but to the interests of others." (Philippians 2:4) So we don't need special revelations from the Holy Spirit to follow government advice on health issues, or to take responsible steps to minimise the risks of transmitting an infection.

And it's because I don't expect my family to be miraculously preserved from health hazards that I encourage them to take up all the vaccinations that are on offer.

You may say so but not all churches are ignorant 

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/05/christian-leaders-move-against-mandatory-vaccination/ 

NIH has requested the government to discontinue Covid vaccination for the safety of people.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by R. Hartono

[Deborah_]

2 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

You may say so but not all churches are ignorant 

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/05/christian-leaders-move-against-mandatory-vaccination/ 

NIH has requested the government to discontinue Covid vaccination for the safety of people.

 

Mandatory vaccination hasn't been an issue for most people in the UK. And I believe it would be less of an issue elsewhere if people stopped exaggerating the dangers of the vaccine.

If my church started talking about things such as chip-implants in vaccines I would leave immediately - I would no longer have respect for the leadership.

[com7fy8]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:33 AM, R. Hartono said:

Did your church give Holy Spirit guidance to receive/not receive the Covid shots?

It wasn't clear what our leaders were saying. We have had a policy that people learn to walk with Christ at each one's own pace. So, I would say the leaders did not try to steer or pressure anyone.

But there are ones concerned about stem cells of an aborted baby being used to help with the production of certain COVID vaccines and drugs > I am not sure all vaccines were developed using stem cells.

I don't push, that the Holy Spirit has been telling everyone one thing, about COVID vaccines and politics about it and conspiracy ideas.

But if a person depends on human ways, and not on God, anything can bring trouble. If you depend on yourself and the media, you can get in trouble either way, in my opinion, whether you use the vaccine or not. People claim to depend only on God; yet, they depend on the media for a lot of their stuff.

But ones say using vaccines is automatically depending on this world. Yet, they might use money and buy food at a store.

I can submit to God, so He guides me according to all He knows is really true.

So, in case someone really got hurt by a vaccine . . . I think I can be guided by God not to get a shot He knows would hurt me; I mean, yes the Holy Spirit can guide each of us personally all the time about everything.

"Test all things;hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

Only God knows what at each moment is really "good"  So, doesn't this mean we need to depend on God at every moment to guide us? Yes, test what is good, at any time, by always submitting to what God does with us . . . practically and in our character.

Plus, yes God can give church people wisdom and creativity for how to keep having church during COVID or any disaster or persecution! So, in case a church closes and blames the government, may be they just want to make some political group or leader look bad.

Because with God we likely would have His increase of love and worship and prayer and the word during COVID or whatever else. And so, I understand that God has pastors prepare people for things like this before they happen, so that we are ready and we with God use troubles for His good . . . knowing all is in His strategy, even playing Satan's real conspiracies and bluff conspiracies for God's use.

They could have had church every day of the week if they weren't working, and have more quality time for loving! - - - if they knew how to submit to God and knew how to love.

It is possible the pandemic forced certain couples to be with one another so they would have to learn how to share with one another; and they took good advantage of that, while others surrendered to how Satan could shut them down.

So, it is wise to get ready with God for what He knows will really happen. We see how some number of churches were caught flat-footed by the pandemic. Ones have even played the victim, trying to use that against Dr. Fauci and certain politicians, versus growing in Jesus and how He creates with whatever happens.

There are ones who had lots of new time, free, but they did not use their extra time to spend more time with God and in prayer and His word!

Because we do things and make choices because of how we really are, in our character > not because of circumstances or the government or conspiracies.

So . . . our attention belongs with God and how He rules us in His peace.

[Starise]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:13 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Interesting how experiences differ, and it is hard to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence. For example, the church which I attend, did not continue with regular services, it was "against the law" to sing in my state, lol. We went from three in person services on Sundays, to one, and that one was outside, in extreme heat and high winds a lot of the time, so not well attended. nevertheless, the giving did not drop off at all, so it was even less likely to close. Same income, lower expenses. I don't know what to attribute that to. Is that an act of the Holy Spirit? Is that what happens when you have people who are genuinely committed and not just there to be seen going to church? I don't know, but at least at one church, Covid did not win!

My church re structured for awhile. They did things like arrange more distant seating in the sanctuary and many wore masks. Most of it was not mandated by the state. I can't imagine trying to have church outside in bad weather.

I also remember a very hearty financial report right in the middle of COVID. My church has online giving.This could be a reason. 

I believe our pastor was determined to make it work.

Right down the road from me though stands another church. This church was a part of a denomination that sold out to the apostate special interests. When that happened they were ok with staying in that denomination. 

For probably many reasons, they are probably closing. That church has been there for hundreds of years, but ended up holding yard sales and public events ( like a Scottish festival) to raise enough money to try to keep going. 

Many churches who are seen as very liberal followed every single suggestion coming from the media at the time. I believe this hurt them greatly in doing things such as having zoom church way past when it was necessary and causing many members not to attend by demanding masks well past the time they were regarded as necessary. I would call it over reacting at the expense of the assembly itself. Many who stayed out never came back to those churches.

Hopefully a few of the apostate churches push a few away to legit churches.

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

If my church started talking about things such as chip-implants in vaccines I would leave immediately - I would no longer have respect for the leadership.

Its not about the chip that we should be worry but what it will bring to our body, mankind was created with the image of God installed in our genome, the mark of the beast will alter the genome to ultimately destroy mankind, people may not be able to think about God anymore and become the same as animals.

Im not saying this experimental covid shots is the mark of the beast but it may have preceded as it has been succesfully forced globally with threats of losing jobs, travel access and public/commercial places.

Study has shown Preclinical studies of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine BNT162b2, developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, showed reversible hepatic effects in animals that received the BNT162b2 injection. Furthermore, a recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of human cells. (DNA alteration).

https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73/htm

Edited September 15, 2022 by R. Hartono