Ask Me Anything About Christianity

[Starise]

26 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

 

Well, our Apostle Paul says, 

"a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me" > 

This is in 2 Corinthians 12:7-15.

Paul says the thorn was a "messenger" . . . not a "message". A messenger would be a personal being, not some one physical infirmity, I would say. And this messenger was "of Satan"; so this was an evil being . . . either a demon or a human. 

So, I believe Paul has revealed, right in this scripture, who the thorn in the flesh was.

I would like to offer more about this . . . perhaps my opinion > 

Would that thorny messenger be a demon or a human? A human would not be able to get to Paul while he was alone. So, I think the messenger of Satan was a demon, who at any time could get to Paul to buffet him. 

A high-level demon in Satan's kingdom could have various powers to mess with Paul in a variety of ways. Any time Paul got started to do something in his own ego, then was when that demon could make trouble for Paul. And when Paul in his ego tried to do damage control, that thorn demon could parry right past the defenses of Paul's ego, and pop would go that puffed-up ego. And then the demon thorn could be like a hypodermic needle to inject Paul with anger and frustration and embarrassment and confusion, so Paul could be begging the Lord to make that "thing" . . . that problem . . . go away.

But > like 

This is what I get: no way was Jesus going to give a quick-fix miracle of convenience to Paul.

Jesus said to Paul, and now says to us >

"My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." (in 2 Corinthians 12:9)

Paul needed to learn to do things always in God's grace. God's grace is almighty to protect us from nasty reacting and negative stuff in our minds and hearts, and this grace almighty has us succeeding in whatsoever God has us doing.

Not only this > but Paul says . . . after Jesus tells him that Jesus' grace is sufficient > 

"Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake." (in 2 Corinthians 12:10)

Once Paul had a little talk with Jesus, Paul could enjoy "pleasure" in any trouble while Paul was submitting to how God's grace took him along. 

This grace is of God's own love having Heaven's own pleasant rest soothing and caressing us in our souls. This grace has "pleasure" indeed so nicer than any created pleasure sensations that can seem so sensational. And this grace is almighty in immunity against howsoever Satanic things would mess with us in our feelings and emotions; and so, we can keep on in this rest of God's love caressing us (Romans 5:5) while we are going through whatever is really "for Christ's sake". 

But Paul's problem, at first, was that he could do things not really "for Christ's sake". But then he had a little talk with Jesus. And then he got the message of that Satanic messenger's messing 

And Paul shares this with us, how Paul himself also needed such correction. 

@com7fy8

Thanks. Great points to bring out. I didn't have the text right in front of me and I was thinking "thorn in the flesh".

I don't think the bible specifically says it's a demon. Your post causes me to want to reexamine my reply. 

I do remember comments in one of the books written by Paul about a certain coppersmith that was giving him trouble.

The bottom line is we want the RIGHT answer here, so if anyone catches an answer that they think needs expanding or even contradicting, don't hold back. We will let the word answer our questions.

It seems every question I see brings at least two more. In this case, if the messenger of Satan is a being who is charged with oppressing Paul, it seems we can't win. We pray for God to keep us away from evil and He sends it. Why can't He send the good angels instead?

Edited September 21, 2022 by Starise

[Jedi4Yahweh]

@com7fy8

Reminds about how God promised the Israelites the promise land (Land of Canaan) but what Israel did not realize was, there were giants and warring nations still in the land which caused Israel to want to turn back and go to Egypt.  God told Israel they would have to fight and remove them from the Land.  Israel did not like that.  God said he intentionally left these obstacles in the Land to test Israel and see if they would be faithful to him and trust him to overcome their enemies.

In the same why God leaves major obstacles in our life to overcome as a way to test our faith and to build our faith to overcome our enemies.  Unfortunately many fail and turn back to Egypt and die in the wilderness, just like most of Israel did.  Only two men out of the original group actually entered into the land that was promised to them.

Shalom,

Jedi

[kwikphilly]

15 minutes ago, Starise said:

@com7fy8

Thanks. Great points to bring out. I didn't have the text right in front of me and I was thinking "thorn in the flesh".

I don't think the bible specifically says it's a demon. Your post causes me to want to reexamine my reply. 

I do remember comments in one of the books written by Paul about a certain coppersmith that was giving him trouble.

The bottom line is we want the RIGHT answer here, so if anyone catches an answer that they think needs expanding or even contradicting, don't hold back. We will let the word answer our questions.

It seems every question I see brings at least two more. In this case, if the messenger of Satan is a being who is charged with oppressing Paul, it seems we can't win. We pray for God to keep us away from evil and He sends it. Why can't He send the good angels instead?

Blessings Brother

I strongly disagree that God "sends" us evil- He Does Allow but no,not sends

That's solely satan's doing & from Job I believe he must have God's permission( allowed)

No,God Does Send His Heavenly Angels to do battle with satan's minions and I believe keeping us out of harms way....

Anyway,my 2 cents Brother❤️

[Marathoner]

In relation to what I wrote above, I'll share the following in the hope that my brothers and sisters will be edified. 

Not long after the Lord raised me up from the shadow of death, He called me to stand in the very spot where I had fallen on that day when He delivered me with a mighty hand. When I arrived, I was taken in His Spirit to a place that I cannot describe, which is to say it is unlike anything on this earth. 

I stood before what I had once believed was my grave, only now it was an altar to the Lord. The Lord spoke, saying, 

Come forth now, and cast your offering upon My altar. Leave nothing untouched; all of your works, dreams, thoughts, and possessions are Mine. 

I did as the Lord commanded until there was nothing left. I cast everything upon His altar and when I was finished, I asked the Lord, "Does this please You, Lord?"

Behold, the Lord declared, and a great column of fire from heaven descended upon His altar which was formerly my grave. This fire not only consumed the offering, but the fervent heat consumed the altar itself, and the fire spread to encompass everything as far as the eye could see. I was standing in the midst of a sea of fire, but the flames did not touch me. I was unharmed but even so, I was afraid. 

Do not be afraid, the Lord said, for no harm shall come to you. 

The flames subsided and when they were gone, nothing but a pile of ash remained where His altar once stood. The Lord said to me, What do you see before you, My son?

I answered the Lord and said, "Lord, I see nothing but ashes."

The Lord stretched forth His hand into the pile of ashes and when He withdrew it, I saw an impossible thing: a mantle of the purest white in His hand. I marveled at this and said, "Lord, how can this be? Your fire consumed everything to ashes!"

The Lord replied and said to me, On that day when you committed your life into My hand, saying it was all that you had to give to the Lord God, did I not declare your offer acceptable in My sight? Have you forgotten so swiftly?

When you walked as a child you served under the banner of man as a soldier, the Lord said to me. Your dedication and discipline are pleasing to Me, for you rendered service faithfully to your masters until your obligation was fulfilled. Did you not pledge your life to serving others?, the Lord inquired of me. 

"Lord, it is as You say," I responded. 

And so it is, He said. This mantle is the man whom I have fashioned you to be, refined in the furnace, and tested as gold is tried. Speak truly, then: what is that name I have given to you? 

"Chanokh is the name You gave to me all those years ago, my Lord. But that time is gone now!" I wept for the memory of those days. 

The Lord placed the mantle of white upon my shoulders and declared, 

You no longer serve under the banner of man, for you are not a child. Your portion is with Me, and also My house, and so you serve under the banner of the Lord. Dedication is your path and service is your way. Do not forget this day, the Lord said. You walk with Me, and I walk with you. You are Mine alone, and belong to no other. 

[Starise]

Another take on the "thorn" Paul had.

It's really just the gotquestions commentary.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Paul-thorn-flesh.html

[kwikphilly]

4 minutes ago, Starise said:

Another take on the "thorn" Paul had.

It's really just the gotquestions commentary.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Paul-thorn-flesh.html

Ive read that in the past.... And if anything can keep one humble and down to earth it is pain & suffering-wuth this I agree whole heatedly!

Thanks for sharing it- good take Brother!

[Alive]

Along the same lines as this thorn discussion. I may have shared this before. Many years ago, I had an epiphany of sorts where I realized in a different sort of way that was common to me before...and that was my pride. On that day, it just seemed to loom greatly. I said to the Lord in response--"Lord, bring me low". He took me up on that. A day or two (I can't recall), I got a call from my insurance company that insisted on blood work for a life insurance policy--they said I needed to get to the hospital. Now that was inappropriate on many levels and I could have sued them.

Anyway, it turns out I had Hep-C and my counts were through the roof. The coctail they put me on messed with my brain chemistry and caused acute anxiety and it persists to this day. Along with that weird anxiety comes a lack of trust in myself. This is very hard to explain, but it is very real and at times debilitating. A thorn in the flesh that results in a weakness in a natural man that was once very strong indeed. The Lord answered my request. There have been times recently, where I have asked the Lord to remove it, but the Lord knows what He is doing. Romans 8:28.

Its odd, but because of this much of scripture has come clear regarding the earthen vessel and the power that 'must be' God's and not our own. "I can do nothing".

I think I understand Jacob and Paul and why they had to go through what they did.

I do not know, but I suspect Paul was tortured by the memories of the many Christians that he had persecuted before the Damascus road.

I have never persecuted Christians, but I have sinned grievously since He gave me Light. Although I know I am forgiven, the weight of it remains and the enemy often reminds me.

All of this drives me to the throne of Grace and makes forgiving others easier....I have learned that the faucet of forgiveness is always turned on full 'In Christ'.

[Starise]

4 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Ive read that in the past.... And if anything can keep one humble and down to earth it is pain & suffering-wuth this I agree whole heatedly!

Thanks for sharing it- good take Brother!

The scary thing is I suspect God isn't finished making me humble yet. I really don't like what He allows to get me there. 

I try to constantly remind myself that I can't do ANYTHING without Him. Not that the tree I'm in has far to fall from. I know I'm not much of anything really and anything I am is because of Him.

I think we all need to be kept in check sometimes. I recently had one very humbling experience.

I believe we like to think we know something until we realize none of us knows much.I SHOULD probably know a lot more than I do.

As I say it was kind of a jest that I signed on for this thread. I know what I know, but I don't always know what I don't know until I know I don't know it.The main thing is, once I know I can't forget it.

[Starise]

That has to be the shortest post ever by johann. 

Johann the posts are too short now!

[kwikphilly]

8 minutes ago, Starise said:

The scary thing is I suspect God isn't finished making me humble yet. I really don't like what He allows to get me there. 

I try to constantly remind myself that I can't do ANYTHING without Him. Not that the tree I'm in has far to fall from. I know I'm not much of anything really and anything I am is because of Him.

I think we all need to be kept in check sometimes. I recently had one very humbling experience.

I believe we like to think we know something until we realize none of us knows much.I SHOULD probably know a lot more than I do.

As I say it was kind of a jest that I signed on for this thread. I know what I know, but I don't always know what I don't know until I know I don't know it.The main thing is, once I know I can't forget it.

Lol.... You know I relate to your situation very well,too well!!!

Maybe I needed some more humbling too after the last " thing" over 10 yrs ago---- I didn't think I've forgotten anything,I didn't think I lost any humility,I believed I gave God Glory?

Or maybe He was testing what I had learned- apparently not much as I explained in the other thread...

We are such babes Brother- we actually think our half decades plus of study & maturity makes us " grown"

Hahahaha😘❤️🙏🫣