The Light

[kenny2212]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

@kenny2212  are you saying that God just showed this to you and you had no prior knowledge of it?

 

 

 

Yes, I would say so.

[Wayne222]

It's so interesting subject. Kenny is right that God does not need light to see. Void means empty so it could be God was not finish in the creation. There is a gap right now between us being born again and not glorified and immortal yet. The whole creation is waiting for the manifestation of the children of God. Then the whole universe will be made complete.  

[Revelation Man]

On 12/23/2022 at 6:41 AM, kenny2212 said:

It is my belief that there's an undisclosed period of time between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis Chapter 1.

Genesis 1:1-5 (NKJV) - 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

God doesn't have need of an outside light source for God himself is light.

1 John 1:5 (NKJV) - This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

So what's the darkness referred to in Genesis 1:2? The darkness is Evil. Evil energies.

This Light that God calls forth dispels these evil energies.

Luke 11:34 (KJV) - The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is EVIL, thy body also is full of DARKNESS.

Genesis 1:5 (NKJV) - God called the light Day, and the DARKNESS He called NIGHT. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Matthew 13:25 (NLT) - But that NIGHT as the workers slept, his ENEMY came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away.

Evil works mostly at night.

No, the EVENING came first then the MORNING. So, when God commanded the Universe to come forth it took 9.2 billion years before the earth formed, this is why it is described as Void & Without Form, it was not there yet, we are getting a play by play from God's perspective. I wrote a blog on creation, with much study I even did a rudimentary timeline of the days. I will place a small section of that blog below:

 

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 billion BC until 4.5 billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the sun & earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God,(movement outside the universe before the universe was created can only be God right?) then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. 

 

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The universe becomes transparent to light. The microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

----------------------------------------

I go on to show what happens on "each day" in general, the last day being the 6th day where it started 350 million years or so ago, and man was created about 6000 years ago, and given dominion of the earth, then Satan stole that Dominion with a lie or half truth, "you will not surely die".

So, as you see, God spoke that verse #2 for a specific reason, there was DARKNESS on the face of the deep for 400 million years before Stars started forming. And by the way, through further studies, I have learned that light from the sun only comes in a beam, it has to be reflected in order to light up something (our world). This is why God created our earth with an atmosphere or bio-dome with water that can't escape, thus the water in this atmosphere is what refracts those sunbeams into light that can light up our whole world. Now God MOVING on the face of the waters in verse 2 makes sense, He did so BEFORE He said let there be light. NOTICE, just outside our atmosphere it gets much, much darker !! God used water to reflect the sunbeams. Now we can grow crops, and have sunlight. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Revelation Man

[AdHoc]

14 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

No, the EVENING came first then the MORNING. So, when God commanded the Universe to come forth it took 9.2 billion years before the earth formed, this is why it is described as Void & Without Form, it was not there yet, we are getting a play by play from God's perspective. I wrote a blog on creation, with much study I even did a rudimentary timeline of the days. I will place a small section of that blog below:

 

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 billion BC until 4.5 billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the sun & earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God,(movement outside the universe before the universe was created can only be God right?) then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. 

 

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The universe becomes transparent to light. The microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

----------------------------------------

I go on to show what happens on "each day" in general, the last day being the 6th day where it started 350 million years or so ago, and man was created about 6000 years ago, and given dominion of the earth, then Satan stole that Dominion with a lie or half truth, "you will not surely die".

So, as you see, God spoke that verse #2 for a specific reason, there was DARKNESS on the face of the deep for 400 million years before Stars started forming. And by the way, through further studies, I have learned that light from  the sun only comes in a beam, it has to be reflected in order to light up something (our world). This is why God created our earth with an atmosphere with water that can't escape, thus the light is what refracts those sunbeams into light that can light up our whole world. Now God MOVING on the face of the waters in verse 2 makes sense, He did so BEFORE He said let there be light. NOTICE, just outside our atmosphere it gets much, much darker !! God used water to reflect the sunbeams. 

I am in great awe of clever men. I have often wished to have a special talent for languages and/or mathematics. I appreciate men like Einstein, Newton and suchlike. But I also have a healthy skepticism. Many years ago I emigrated. After a year or so I could understand the language of my new country and was perplexed at the TV programs. In the four areas of my life that I knew something about, the Media did not represent the truth. The reporters had little knowledge in technical areas and almost daily I caught them in a misrepresentation of the truth. In the matter of the universe, I know one thing. That is; we weren't around when God created it.

In fact, we are so limited in our appreciation of it size and boundaries that almost annually knew discoveries are reported. And machines lie the WMAP are made by finite men with a program constructed by men who it is doubted that they've actually been as far as the moon. And these same men, brilliant as they are, have trouble fathom the earth's history past Noah's flood about 4,500 years ago. To fit their theories they assume much. Carbon dating ASSUMES that everything has remained the same for their calculation to be valid. But we are faced by very clever men who tell of prehistoric catastrophes that could easily have changed the Carbon count. God may have used a big bang to start His universe, but as the ALL-mighty, He could easily have done it another way that no -one has thought of.

So, if God gave languages, and we have rules in these languages to make them consistent and understandable, we have but one option when it comes to those Words that God has set forth. Do they transmit ideas or are they inconsistent and every man must work things out for himself. For example if God defines a day as the "evening and the morning", and we have agreed to what an evening is, and we have agreed to what the morning is, and we have stood outside to observe this phenomena of a solar day, should we not abide by the sum of the rules and agree on a solar day?

Surely, if a man wrote a book about green men, and when interviewed about the book, said that he actually meant red men, we would, at best call him a joker, and at worst a liar. And between these two extremes we would take note that he set out to deceive us. I propose that if God is not a deceiver and that IF He has written that He made the earth in good order to habitable, He really did do this. 

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else

This verse alone establishes that God created the earth in a habitable condition. The situation and conditions on earth in Genesis 1:2 made it UN-inhabitable. So the reader has only two options. (i) Something bad happened after God made all things in good order, or (ii) God is a liar (perish the thought). There is no middle ground.

[Alive]

43 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

This verse alone establishes that God created the earth in a habitable condition. The situation and conditions on earth in Genesis 1:2 made it UN-inhabitable. So the reader has only two options. (i) Something bad happened after God made all things in good order, or (ii) God is a liar (perish the thought). There is no middle ground.

Solid reasoning.

[Revelation Man]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:54 AM, AdHoc said:

I am in great awe of clever men. I have often wished to have a special talent for languages and/or mathematics. I appreciate men like Einstein, Newton and suchlike. But I also have a healthy skepticism. Many years ago I emigrated. After a year or so I could understand the language of my new country and was perplexed at the TV programs. In the four areas of my life that I knew something about, the Media did not represent the truth. The reporters had little knowledge in technical areas and almost daily I caught them in a misrepresentation of the truth. In the matter of the universe, I know one thing. That is; we weren't around when God created it.

I appreciate men like Einstein and others like him in the past who had no political agenda, sadly that is not the case today. Most are liars, they lie to fill their pockets with dollars from people with agendas. There is no such thing as global warming, its a parlor trick. So, I do not fall for shady tactics.

On 12/24/2022 at 10:54 AM, AdHoc said:

In fact, we are so limited in our appreciation of it size and boundaries that almost annually knew discoveries are reported.

Ever get a chance to read Richard Deem, he's a Christian Scientist, he shows why the Universe could not have been much smaller than it is or much larger, either way the universe would have collapsed on itself or been uninhabitable with no rock like substances. In  other words God finetuned creation to a degree that one grain of sand difference at creation and there would be no universe !!

On 12/24/2022 at 10:54 AM, AdHoc said:

And machines lie the WMAP are made by finite men with a program constructed by men who it is doubted that they've actually been as far as the moon. And these same men, brilliant as they are, have trouble fathom the earth's history past Noah's flood about 4,500 years ago. To fit their theories they assume much. Carbon dating ASSUMES that everything has remained the same for their calculation to be valid. But we are faced by very clever men who tell of prehistoric catastrophes that could easily have changed the Carbon count. God may have used a big bang to start His universe, but as the ALL-mighty, He could easily have done it another way that no -one has thought of.

WMAP the M stands for Microwave, you do understand that Radar is used to see planes, weather etc. and gives us a true picture of things, so the whole universe was mapped out using radar, this is not something that we should doubt, we trust our lives to this technology every day. So, why is it that just because they mapped out the whole universe from the beginning, its now all of the sudden a technology we shouldn't trust? That is the picture of the universe, but here is the thing, why would a scientist affirm the bible? I do not think they did that on purpose, but these pics prove our God was 100 percent correct, Darkness came first and DARKNESS was on the face of the deep, so you get a pic of the universe that affirms the bible, but still do not want to jump for joy now that you have a tool to show people, LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, God said there was Darkness on the face of the Deep, see this Microwave Map of the Universe? 400 million years of darkness. BOOM. You can reach lost souls, yet you are too worried about what YOWM means, and I will show you it does not mean day. Its means about 50 different things, in essence, when time is involved, they used YOWM then you had to describe the time period. The root word is TO BE HOT. I could care less about carbon dating, I destroy the atheists argument about men and carbon dating (the only thing they can argue by the time I am finished then I WOMP them with the last truth that makes them all go silent). 

I get the ole, well, we know man is 100,000 years old at least, to which I reply where is the records, men are record keepers and we basically have nothing past 6000 years (I'm toying with them now, the WOMP is coming) and they say, well, we got bones going back 100,000 years or so that prove men are older than 6000 years old, and then I hit them with it. What does Genesis say about God creating mankind? It says God created man in His own image, thus God put His spirit into mankind and thus we became Human beings. So, you have no way of knowing when God placed His spirit into mankind. Any "men like animals" before that were not human beings, just animals without God's spirit. Thus, God created mankind by placing His spirit in Adam roughly 6000 or so years ago. 

The language is very easy. God said YOWM not day, you and others assumes it has to be a day.

#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}

from an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; TWOT - 852; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) AS A DIVISION OF TIME
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) TIME, PERIOD (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; a day (as the WARM HOURS), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a SPACE OF TIME defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + ALWAYS, + CHRONICLES, CONTINUALLY (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X FULL, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X REQUIRED, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

#3117.
יוֹם
yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—
NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + H1697 37, daily 32, ever 17,
year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8
always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274

--------------------------------------

Some examples where this word is used in a different way BELOW: Notice it's always used as a PERIOD OF TIME of some sort.

2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).

Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).

Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.

Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).

1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).

Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.

Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).

Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full(YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.

I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and instances which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME of many sorts. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophets says that there will be so and so many days of this or that he used the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWM, and when it meant a YEAR they also used the word YOWM, etc. etc.

So God uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to EVENTUALLY figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He(God) meant by that !! The Hebrew language had 4000 words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) and the English translators to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure it out in the end. All men knew back then comparatively speaking was that we had days/years/months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? Day, Year, Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe is like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do.

So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS...........which as shown above means periods of times in various ways. We have to figure it out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in way which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people in truth. I have seen many young people tell me, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge, they listen and say so you believe in Evolution, and I say why ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as he so desired ? It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gain them via what I see as facts. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them brother. And that is my job, that is why I researched it, I hated Science in school, but its my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in.

Morning and Evening mean beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time. We see light from stars that could not reach us for billions of years. God is eternal, He did not have to hurry up creation, as soon as He created the universe He was living in the end times with us, He is eternal and lives in all time at once.

As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?

I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens you up to seeing my POV here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, its up to us to understand what that Period of time means in each instance. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. The earth is 4.5 billion years old. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Revelation Man

[AdHoc]

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I appreciate men like Einstein and others like him in the past who had no political agenda, sadly that is not the case today. Most are liars, they lie to fill their pockets with dollars from people with agenda. There is no such thing as global warming, its a parlor trick. So, I do not fall fir shady tactics.

Ever get a chance to read Richard Deem, he's a Christian Scientist, he shows why the Universe could nit have been  much smaller than it is or much larger, either way the universe would have collapsed on  itself or been uninhabitable with no rock like substances. In  other words God finetuned creation to a degree that one grain of sand difference at creation and there would be no universe !!

WMAP the M stands for Microwave, you do understand that Radar is used to see planes, weather etc. and gives us a true picture of things, so the whole universe was mapped out using radar, this is not something that we should doubt, we trust our lives to this technology every day. So, why is it that just because they mapped out the whole universe from the beginning, its now all of the sudden a technology we shouldn't trust. That is the picture of the universe, but here is the thing, why would a scientist affirm the bible? I do not think they did that on purpose, but these pics prove our God was 100 percent correct, Darkness came first and DARKNESS was on the face of the deep, so you get a pic of the universe that affirms the bible, but still do not want to jump for joy now that you have a tool to show people, LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, God said there was Darkness on the face of the Deep, see this Microwave Map of the Universe? 400 million years of darkness. BOOM. You can reach lost souls, yet you are too worried about what YOWM means, and I will show you it does not mean day. Its means about 50 different things, in essence, when time is involved, they used YOWM then you had to describe the time period. The root word is TO BE HOT. I could care less about carbon dating, I destroy the atheists argument about men and carbon dating (the only thin g they can argue by the time I am finished then I WOMP them with the last truth that makes them all go silence. 

I get, well, we know man is 100,000 years old at least, to which I reply where is the records, men are record keepers and we basically have nothing past 6000 years (I'm toying with them now, the WOMP is coming) and they say, well, we got bones going back 100,000 years or so that prove men are older tan 6000 years old, and they I hit them with it. What does Genesis say about God creating mankind? It says God placed created man in His own image, thus God put His spirit into mankind and thus we became Human beings. So, you have no way of knowing when God placed His spirit into mankind. Any men like animals before that were not human beings. Thus, God created mankind by placing His spirit in Adam roughly 6000 or so years ago. 

The language is very easy. God said YOWM b=not day, you and others assumes it has to be a day.

#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}

from an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; TWOT - 852; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) AS A DIVISION OF TIME
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) TIME, PERIOD (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; a day (as the WARM HOURS), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a SPACE OF TIME defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + ALWAYS, + CHRONICLES, CONTINUALLY (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X FULL, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X REQUIRED, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

#3117.
יוֹם
yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—
NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + H1697 37, daily 32, ever 17,
year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8
always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274

--------------------------------------

Some examples where this word us used in a different way BELOW: Notice it's always used as a PERIOD OF TIME of some sort.

2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).

Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).

Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.

Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).

1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).

Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.

Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).

Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full(YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.

I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and instances which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME of many sorts. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophets says that there will be so and so many days of this or that he used the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWM, and when it meant a YEAR they also used the word YOWM, etc. etc.

So God uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to EVENTUALLY figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He(God) meant by that !! The Hebrew language had 4000 words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure it out in the end. All men knew back then comparatively speaking was that we had days/years/months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? Day, Year, Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe us like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do.

So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS...........which as shown above means periods of times in various ways. We have to figure it out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in way which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people in truth. I have seen many young people tell me, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge, they listen and say so you believe in Evolution, and I say why ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as he so desired ? It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gain them via what I see as facts. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them brother. And that is my job, that is why I researched it, I hated Science in school, but its my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in.

Morning and Evening mean beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time. We see light from stars that could nit breach us for billions of years. God is eternal, He did not have to hurry up creation, as soon as He created the universes He was living in the end times with us, He is eternal and lives in all time at once.

As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?

I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens you up to seeing my POV here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, its up to us to understand what that Period of time means in each instance. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. The earth is 4.5 billion years old. 

I thank you for taking the time to answer and explain your point of view. I read it through twice and am sure you have missed two crucial points. You may not have, but I can say for sure you did not allude to them in your reply.

1. The first point is that the thread does not make a claim that the universe was created in 7 days. If you read the first contributions it should be clear that many readers understand that creation was accomplished at some undetermined time on the past. How long it continued in God's order is not given. Then a time of rebellion took place, which plunged the earth into chaos. God, not tolerating this festering sight, covered it with water. How long God's dealings took is not given. Then followed a time of the earth remaining under water and in darkness. This could cover millions of years, but (i) it is not said, and (ii) no beings were there to record it, and (iii) if they did, their records were not preserved. Most students who consider this time attribute the rebellion to that of the previous governor, Lucifer. They refer you to Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. The time it took for all this is not given, but it leaves enough time for any imagination. I say "imagination" because that is what it is. If God wanted me to know what awful things were perpetrated then, He would have left proof in His Word. He didn't. So 4.5 billion years is pure speculation.

Science is the formulating of what we can observe. There is no way to observe what happened. And there is no way to calculate when it happened. But just the figure of 4.5 billion makes it suspect. Science should be able to calculate to at least the year. I would have expected 4.57697089192837 billion years from a scientist.

2. The second piece of information I would have expected, seeing as you went to great an effort to define the day, was the use of the words "bara", "asah" and "yatsar". The use of these words show that God CREATED (bara) out of nothing, the heavens and the earth. From verse 2 God never uses the word "bara" again until the living creatures are created. God uses "asah" which means to "MAKE out of existing materials". Then, in Chapter 2 God "FORMED" man's body from clay ("yatsar"). That is, from Genesis 1:2 onward, God did not CREATE (except the living creatures). What God did was "MAKE" already existing light to shine, to MAKE grass to appear and to MAKE the sun and moon in their places. The notion that God created the universe in 7 (or 6) days is incorrect. What God did in 6 days was RESTORE the earth to a condition habitable to man. This fact reinforces the idea that the earth is much older than 6,000 years. But it gives no information exactly how old.

As to the WMAP, you said it used microwave technology. I am told by scientists that microwaves travel at 3.00 x 10 to the power of 8 in a vacuum - the same as the speed of light. I am also told by these same scientists that the universe is 94 billion light years across. So if the earth was in the dead center of the universe, a microwave that is used like radar would take 47 billion light years to reach the fringe and another 47 billion light years to return to source for mapping. But Percy Spencer only discovered the microwave in 1945 and WMAP only started measuring in 2010. Please explain?

I propose that God meant what He said. That He restored a chaotic earth, that had been around for a while. Because He is ALL-mighty, He could easily do this in 6 solar days. The Bible is written in a structure of sevens - called Heptadic structure. The times recorded in the Bible are to be taken as literal except some prophecy, and if so used, we find that man is 6,000 years old. If God ushers in His Kingdom this century, He will have recovered the earth and have in under the rule of a Man in SEVEN thousand years. In accordance with this, God calls the coming Kingdom a Sabbath Rest in Hebrews 3 and 4. I further propose that whenever science is contrary to the Bible, it is no longer science - but a contrary religion. I say "religion" because it takes a lot of faith to believe what cannot be.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The first point is that the thread does not make a claim that the universe was created in 7 days. If you read the first contributions it should be clear that many readers understand that creation was accomplished at some undetermined time on the past.

Your last verse in your reply to me stated God created the Earth and it was habitable as soon as He created it so therefore I placed you in the young earth camp because once any planet is formed it has to be fire hot for many, many years !! I mean many, many many.

The earth had a couple of ‘mishaps’ early on, first it was hot when it was formed 4.5-ish billion years ago, then it got hit by a Mars-sized rock that melted it again (and created the moon), and once that was sorted and the Earth had somewhat cooled down it got hit by a 700 million year phase of ‘late heavy bombardment’ by smaller space rocks that melted most of the crust AGAIN.

But then it cooled and somewhere around 3.8 bn years ago it was cool enough to get single-celled in just 20 million years (then it took an additional 3.2 billion years to get multi-cellular life). So, in other words, God started creating the animals about 600 million years ago. So, it basically took almost 4 billion years for the earth to be habitable enough for multi-celled animals/creatures. 

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Then a time of rebellion took place, which plunged the earth into chaos. God, not tolerating this festering sight, covered it with water. How long God's dealings took is not given. Then followed a time of the earth remaining under water and in darkness. This could cover millions of years, but (i) it is not said, and (ii) no beings were there to record it, and (iii) if they did, their records were not preserved.

Well, I don't think you mean chaos from mankind who were only created 6000 or so years ago, my guess is you mean the rock (now the moon) colliding with earth etc. etc. I think the water was always here, God referenced it in the first three verses. 

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

They refer you to Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. The time it took for all this is not given, but it leaves enough time for any imagination. I say "imagination" because that is what it is. If God wanted me to know what awful things were perpetrated then, He would have left proof in His Word. He didn't. So 4.5 billion years is pure speculation.

It is called Science brother. We have what are called CONSTANTS, like the Speed of Light etc. These are Gods Laws of Nature. He created them and God is orderly, He doesn't change thigs up in order to deceive us. We can and do know how far things are away from us be determining that info via the Speed of Light times the distance which gives us the answer how far away a star is. Thus we can and do know its age. 

 

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I propose that God meant what He said. That He restored a chaotic earth, that had been around for a while. Because He is ALL-mighty, He could easily do this in 6 solar days. The Bible is written in a structure of sevens - called Heptadic structure. The times recorded in the Bible are to be taken as literal except some prophecy, and if so used, we find that man is 6,000 years old. If God ushers in His Kingdom this century, He will have recovered the earth and have in under the rule of a Man in SEVEN thousand years. In accordance with this, God calls the coming Kingdom a Sabbath Rest in Hebrews 3 and 4. I further propose that whenever science is contrary to the Bible, it is no longer science - but a contrary religion. I say "religion" because it takes a lot of faith to believe what cannot be.

God created man 6000 years ago, what happened before that is not that relevant unless you want to get into the 6 days of creation, which I have pegged via timelines. God does say what He sys, he said YOWM, not day, that is the whole point. 

 

[WilliamL]

On 12/23/2022 at 5:41 AM, kenny2212 said:

It is my belief that there's an undisclosed period of time between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis Chapter 1.

Genesis 1:1-5 (NKJV) - 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; 

That is a view found among ancient Hebrew scholars and more modern Jewish mystics. They say, essentially, that there was a spiritual fall by the original lights of heaven, which became engorged with heavenly Light and shattered, because they could/would not return or share that Light. This "shattering of the vessels" caused the broken remnants to fall into the lower worlds, wherein they needed to be salvaged over the following 6000 years. At the end of which, there would be a return to a rectified state/Tikkun in the 7th Millennium. (Sound familiar?)

This fall is what caused the "chaos and void."

Also, the Hebrew verb translated "was" -- "the earth was without form" -- can equally be interpreted "became," because its vowel pointing allows for both possible interpretations.

 

[Dennis1209]

Well, Kenny, with fear, trembling and biting my tongue, not to encourage another argument and debate. I will say you are in good company in your exegesis.

I will only mention two additional points to research:

·         What did the Jews, early church fathers, and Ante-Nicene fathers believe and write?

·         When was the other theory of the six-day creation of everything proposed in history?