Ghost Story: Levels of Hell

[OneLight]

26 minutes ago, Biblican said:

Do you honestly believe that soeone who is suffering in hell and hears the gospel and is given the chance to repent and receive Jesus is going to refuse? The righteous ones in Paradise were given the Gospel so they could enter God's precense. Abraham was there as well as David and they all knew that the Messiah was coming. Why would they want to stay in Paradise when they could be in heaven? 

I don't believe in universal salvation. That's not what this is. This was a one time event specifically those who had died before Jesus came.

The only time that ever happened is when Christ died on the cross and spent three days in the heart of the earth.  When He rose, he brought captivity captive.  Those who died before Christ rose had no means to accept salvation through His death and resurrection because it had not happened yet.  After Christ rose, salvation became available to all who believed in Jesus.  They have no excuse if they die rejecting Jesus after hearing the scriptures.   To suggest this will happen again would require scripture to be wrong when it tells us that it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, not a second chance somewhere down the line.

Your whole argument up until now is that all humans will be saved.  Why the change now?

[com7fy8]

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

 it doesn't surprise me that people believed in ghosts back then as they do today. 

In my Strong's Greek dictionary, we have word #4151 - spirit.

Matthew 14:24-26 - has word #5326 - an appearing, I understand, which can mean the appearing of a ghost of some dead human, I suppose. 

But what they thought could be wrong. And I think they might have believed they were seeing something not human.

And they were crying out with fear. And "fear of death" is included in slavery to Satan, according to what I see in Hebrews 2:14-15.

So, in case they were fearing death, they were wrong.

So, why would they fear death if they saw an appearing of either a ghost . . . or an angel of death come to take one or more of them?

Matthew 14:24-26 says the wind was being rough with their boat, so that weather might cause someone in the boat to die, maybe getting washed overboard and drowning. So, seeing an apparition at such a time could mean to them that perhaps a death angel was there to take someone into death . . . not a human's ghost, but an angel that someone can see at the time of transition from this life.

 

[Michael37]

On 2/4/2023 at 5:12 AM, Biblican said:

I Peter  3:19 correlates with I Peter 4:6. It was the belief of the early church that Jesus did go to Paradise and empty it. He told the theirf on the cross that "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Paradise at that time was a compartment of hell and it is obvious that Jesus said He was goning there.

1 Peter 3:19 We have dealt with the spirits in prison, namely those who opposed God in Noah's day and are in Hades.

1 Peter 4:6 The KJV is a better translation for this one because it avoids the error of the so-called "preaching to the dead" which is a misconstruction of what is simply the fact that those who had the gospel preached to them while they were alive subsequently died...and were dead at the time of Peter's writing the epistle. These people were "judged" as trouble makers and put to death for their faith, but of course in Christ live on. I haven't time to quote various commentaries that support this but your own search should lead to them. I realise there are contrary opinions but that's normally the case with some passages in the Bible so in the end you make up your mind.

1Pe 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

These saints now deceased in the context above, were subject to scrutiny by those they lived among, showing they believed the gospel and lived it for God.

[Biblican]

7 hours ago, Michael37 said:

1 Peter 3:9 We have dealt with the spirits in prison, namely those who opposed God in Noah's day and are in Hades.

1 Peter 4:6 The KJV is a better translation for this one because it avoids the error of the so-called "preaching to the dead" which is a misconstruction of what is simply the fact that those who had the gospel preached to them while they were alive subsequently died...and were dead at the time of Peter's writing the epistle. These people were "judged" as trouble makers and put to death for their faith, but of course in Christ live on. I haven't time to quote various commentaries that support this but your own search should lead to them. I realise there are contrary opinions but that's normally the case with some passages in the Bible so in the end you make up your mind.

1Pe 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

These saints now deceased in the context above, were subject to scrutiny by those they lived among, showing they believed the gospel and lived it for God.

I don't agree with with the commentaries, they are philosophizing the meaning. Jesus was in Paradise after His death as He told the repentant thief. No one can ascend into heaven unless their souls have been unified with the Holy Spirit of eternal life. Jesus went to hell to not only proclaim His victory but to give them the Holy Spirit so they could ascend.

I was ministering to a Hindu man years ago. His main objection to Christianity was that it condemns all those who died before He came and couldn't hear the gospel. I told Him that Jesus went to hell and gave the gospel to all those who died before. That removed the stumblingblock that was preventing him from receiving the gospel. That's why I teach it the way Peter wrote it.

[Biblican]

9 hours ago, OneLight said:

The only time that ever happened is when Christ died on the cross and spent three days in the heart of the earth.  When He rose, he brought captivity captive.  Those who died before Christ rose had no means to accept salvation through His death and resurrection because it had not happened yet.  After Christ rose, salvation became available to all who believed in Jesus.  They have no excuse if they die rejecting Jesus after hearing the scriptures.   To suggest this will happen again would require scripture to be wrong when it tells us that it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, not a second chance somewhere down the line.

Your whole argument up until now is that all humans will be saved.  Why the change now?

You haven't been paying attention. I never said that all humans will be saved, where are you getting that? The only time people who died before Christ were saved was after He died and was ministering in hell. After that no one is saved unless they receive Jesus.  At the last judgment people may be given a chance to repent and receive Jesus, especially those who have not had the chance to hear the gospel when they were alive. God is merciful. Those who have rejected Jesus in their lifetimes will also be rejected based on their works, their rejection of the Truth. We can't presume to know exactly what will happen at the judgment, but it is a judgment, meaning people will be judged by a just, loving and merciful judge.

[OneLight]

4 minutes ago, Biblican said:

You haven't been paying attention. I never said that all humans will be saved, where are you getting that? The only time people who died before Christ were saved was after He died and was ministering in hell. After that no one is saved unless they receive Jesus.  At the last judgment people may be given a chance to repent and receive Jesus, especially those who have not had the chance to hear the gospel when they were alive. God is merciful. Those who have rejected Jesus in their lifetimes will also be rejected based on their works, their rejection of the Truth. We can't presume to know exactly what will happen at the judgment, but it is a judgment, meaning people will be judged by a just, loving and merciful judge.

Sorry, my mistake ... wrong thread.  I'll  try my best to pay more attention to whom I'm communicating with and in which thread.

[Biblican]

5 hours ago, OneLight said:

Sorry, my mistake ... wrong thread.  I'll  try my best to pay more attention to whom I'm communicating with and in which thread.

You are forgiven. I have done the same thing many times.

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, Biblican said:

I don't agree with with the commentaries, they are philosophizing the meaning.

And yet you are effectively engaged in publishing your own commentary here.

My interest in corresponding is to refute Postmortem Evangelism and encourage awareness of the reasons it is refuted by many.

[Biblican]

6 hours ago, Michael37 said:

And yet you are effectively engaged in publishing your own commentary here.

My interest in corresponding is to refute Postmortem Evangelism and encourage awareness of the reasons it is refuted by many.

The scriptures support Jesus being in Paradise after His crucifixion and Peter confirms it when the scriptures are taken at face value. There is also evidence that God can save a soul in the moments before the "silver cord is cut" Ecc 12:6. I personally know of  a young man who was shot in a gang fight and died on the operating table. He received Jesus while he was on the ceiling watching them work on his body. The silver cord had not been cut so they were able to bring him back. The first thing he said was "My mother was right!" I know the surgeon who worked on him. 

Another great testimony is from a former atheist who died and was being dragged into hell by demons. He called the name "Jesus!"  He came back to life and became an evangelist. His testimony is on Youtube.

[ayin jade]

I havent told this story in decades until this past week. I think its time I did so again. 

When I was first saved, at 30 years old, I worked in a hospital pharmacy. Per law, the pharmacy was locked. The only way to get in was if you were pharmacy staff or a staff member let you in. The door was heavy and made a loud buzzing sound when opened. There was no way to sneak in. 

One night, I was alone in the pharmacy, with a pharmacist in the small iv room that connected to the pharmacy. I turned around and saw an old man in a hospital gown. He looked at me and walked behind some shelves. I walked over to the shelves and he was gone. There was no way he could have gotten out without me seeing. No way he could have gotten in to start with.

I walked to the iv room and asked the pharmacist, who was gowned, and sterile and working on a complicated iv if she let him in. She said oh you must have seen the resident ghost. 

I was a brand new Christian and told this story for a few years. I spoke of this more than I did of Christ. It greatly diminished my witness and I know now that it was a demon. Not a lost human soul. I fear this is causing harm to your walk with the Lord and causing harm to your witness of Jesus and the gospel. 

Ghosts are demons and not to be messed with. Dont place an emphasis on them. Give glory to the Lord, not to ghosts/demons.