Is purgatory Biblical ?

[Neighbor]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:23 AM, R. Hartono said:

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss

"Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible If any man's work shall be burnt,.... If any minister's doctrine he has preached shall be destroyed and disappear, shall be disapproved of, and rejected by the churches, not being able, to bear the light and heat of the fire of God's word:  he shall suffer loss; of all his labour and pains he has been at, in collecting together such trifling, useless, and inconsistent things; and of all that glory and popular applause he might expect from men, on account of them, and which was the snare that drew him into such a way of preaching:  but he himself shall be saved; with an everlasting salvation; not by his ministerial labours, much less by his wood, hay, and stubble, which will be all burnt up; but through his being, notwithstanding all the imperfections of his ministry, upon the foundation Christ:  yet so as by fire; with much difficulty, and will be scarcely saved; see 1 Peter 4:17 with great danger, loss, and shame; as a man that is burnt out of house and home, he escapes himself with his own life, but loses all about him: so the Syriac version reads it, , "as out of the fire": see Zechariah 3:2. Or the sense is, that he shall be tried by the fire of the word, and convinced by the light of it of the errors, irregularities, and inconsistencies of his ministry; either in his time of life and health, or on a death bed; and shall have all his wood, hay, and stubble burnt up, for nothing of this kind shall he carry with him in his judgment to heaven; only the gold, silver, and precious stones; and will find that the latter doctrines, and not the former, will only support him in the views of death and eternity. "  - Credit Biblehub

[farouk]

For the believer, sins have already been fully purged at the Cross.

John 19.30: "It is finished".

Hebrews 1.3: "...when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

[OneLight]

15 minutes ago, farouk said:

For the believer, sins have already been fully purged at the Cross.

John 19.30: "It is finished".

Hebrews 1.3: "...when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

When Jesus spoke the words "It is finished", He was concluding His reason for His ministry on earth.  Some people believe this means everything is a believers life is completed, finished, which is a dangerous doctrine.  It is just the beginning of our walk in Him, not the end.

I'm not saying that this is what you meant, but something that came to mind as I read your post.

[other one]

Is purgatory Biblical ?

 

I think the OP and following  posts pretty much didn't answer that question.

Is purgatory Biblical?   It depends on which Bible you use.   It is my understanding that the theory of purgatory comes from one of the books of Maccabees,  so to a catholic, it is biblical, however since non RCC churches do not consider those books as part of the Biblical cannon, the answer would be No it isn't biblical.

And for the record since I am not a RCC member, I would say it isn't even reality.

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible If any man's work shall be burnt,.... If any minister's doctrine he has preached shall be destroyed and disappear, shall be disapproved of, and rejected by the churches, not being able, to bear the light and heat of the fire of God's word:  he shall suffer loss; of all his labour and pains he has been at, in collecting together such trifling, useless, and inconsistent things; and of all that glory and popular applause he might expect from men, on account of them, and which was the snare that drew him into such a way of preaching:  but he himself shall be saved; with an everlasting salvation; not by his ministerial labours, much less by his wood, hay, and stubble, which will be all burnt up; but through his being, notwithstanding all the imperfections of his ministry, upon the foundation Christ:  yet so as by fire; with much difficulty, and will be scarcely saved; see 1 Peter 4:17 with great danger, loss, and shame; as a man that is burnt out of house and home, he escapes himself with his own life, but loses all about him: so the Syriac version reads it, , "as out of the fire": see Zechariah 3:2. Or the sense is, that he shall be tried by the fire of the word, and convinced by the light of it of the errors, irregularities, and inconsistencies of his ministry; either in his time of life and health, or on a death bed; and shall have all his wood, hay, and stubble burnt up, for nothing of this kind shall he carry with him in his judgment to heaven; only the gold, silver, and precious stones; and will find that the latter doctrines, and not the former, will only support him in the views of death and eternity. "  - Credit Biblehub

Like the above quote appears to do, I've heard this passage in first Corinthians 3 expounded as being toward "ministers" or in other words clergy/pastors.  I don't see that in this passage as it says, "if any man builds."  And then this verse in 2nd Corinthians 3:6 says,  "You all have been made able ministers of the new covenant" as well as numerous places we are told the believers have been made priests. 

So builds what?  Builds upon the foundation mentioned earlier in chapter 3.  And what is this building?  Besides 1 Corinthians 3 this building is talked about in various places, including Matthew, Ephesians, 2 Peter and Revelation.

"Upon this rock I will build my church."  Matt 16:18

"You are . . . built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit."  Eph 2:19-21

"You also as living stones are built up as a spiritual house"  1 Pet 2:5

"The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

So the grand building work taking place is Christ building his assembly (ekklesia) of living stones, which culminates in the new Jerusalem.  And in Spirit we can enter into this building work with Him.  But the building work needs to be truly of Him, and if it is of Him (working through us),  it will be composed of good materials (gold, silver, precious stones) that will stand the judging fire of the Bema Seat of Christ.  Is this happens, the believer will then receive reward.

If the building work of the believer doesn't stand the test (aka wood, hay, stubble) it will be burnt up by the testing fire, and that one will suffer loss - yet will be saved themselves through the fire.

As others have pointed out, this is not taking about initial salvation (being born again) and saved from sin, but rather the works a believer does after they accept Christ into them.  That is, how they build and what they do with the grace they've been given.  It is accountability for works in God's house with His eternal children.

[kwikphilly]

Short answer- " No" ...and sorry but I do not consider the rcc "Holy Bible" a good translation - I'll leave it at that!And besides,there's no such thing as purgatory - that's as silly as " limbo" another fantastical fictitious place from the rcc doctrine,absurd

[FJK]

The problem I have with accepting Purgatory as true is that it gives us the opportunity to earn our way to heaven, the way all the other religions believe we can by various means.

Is there anything in the Bible suggesting this avenue, the working off the debt of our sins to receive salvation, is available to all the way salvation through the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ is?

Or am I just totally misunderstanding what "Purgatory" means?

[Neighbor]

51 minutes ago, FJK said:

The problem I have with accepting Purgatory as true is that it gives us the opportunity to earn our way to heaven, the way all the other religions believe we can by various means.

Is there anything in the Bible suggesting this avenue, the working off the debt of our sins to receive salvation, is available to all the way salvation through the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ is?

Or am I just totally misunderstanding what "Purgatory" means?

If you really want to know what RCC doctrine states you might consider going to  https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm 

as one resource.

From which this excerpt is taken regarding Purgatory. "

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence(Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:

"Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fatherstaught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983).

Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted to explain the teachings of the councils, and to make clear the belief and the practices of the faithful."

Note the above is followed by  temporal punishment, and venial sins  definitions  and doctrine.

You might also note the slogan "To Jesus through Mary" in the bracelet ads that pop up.

[Sower]

Is purgatory Biblical ?

....

If you were raised from Catholic baby baptism to adulthood to believe what you were taught in catechism classes of church dogma (as in dogmatic:) by the RCC nuns and priests, yeah.

 

Pray for/witness to, catholics. It can work. I'm an ex.

 

 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, FJK said:

Is there anything in the Bible suggesting this avenue, the working off the debt of our sins to receive salvation, is available to all the way salvation through the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ is?

 

Does it not distinctly negate the sufficiency of the  sacrifice made by  Jesus  being totally sufficient  for payment of sin? And therefore,  denies Jesus'  victory over death the final enemy?

 Seems to me that : The idea that one must get to Jesus through someone else (Mary), and then earn  in some fashion a fuller pardon than is granted through that very willing sacrifice made by Jesus,  so that you and I may be seen  as washed white as snow and fully acceptable to God the father, is a religion of works. Is it not?

Plus, one may buy a way into being with God for another, either a living person or a dead one, shortening a term in purgatory. Again, that denies the purchase price of sin the sacrifice made by Jesus  being sufficient.  It becomes Jesus plus, and even then Jesus is through Mary

Mary, plus Jesus, plus bought penance, and in addition purgatory, equals not a salvation  but a conscription into God's abode. And you can buy some preistly prayer time too. A low mass for around $75 US or even  high mass for quite a bit more. No tipping allowed. Well do pay the organist separately for the high mass offerings even though the church says pay the church.

Oh the ripings I used to take when I failed to pay the priest directly, the church directly, and the organist, and singer directly, no matter who was claiming to be collecting for all.  I just figured  to pay double and I would have it all covered  and not get read the riot act by Monsignor XXXX.

[Humor button on]: Hey,  a worker is worth his wage, eh? But one has to know the union rules and also pay the shop steward. [Humor button off.]