A View I Never Considered?

[Vipergts]

Just me, but if I was in their shoes, I might be confused on what would happen when all is said and done. They have entered into a grey area as children of Israel, that are changing a system of belief that will not be universally accepted. They are not gentiles, and not following the traditional path as Jews, so what happens when they die? Christ will tell them not to worry about it, He will make a place for them when the time comes. Basically there won't be a door for Jews, and another for gentiles, leaving them confused on how do they enter heaven. How it looks to me anyway. 

[kwikphilly]

14 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ² In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

I have always considered this to refer to the New Jerusalem, our eternal dwelling place on earth. With further study and exchanging thoughts with some experts, I am unsure now, and I now suspect it could allude to our heavenly (glorified) bodies. What are your thoughts?

The following are some condensed commentary:

What I was after in my original reply was that there might be some other line of thinking in regards to the "room" that Jesus mentions in John 14:1-3. Too often we get stuck on the KJV or NKJV translation "mansions." That really is a poor translation for our contemporary audience. If we skip the KJV and go straight to the Greek, we see that the word is "dwelling places." 

I brought up 2 Cor 5 because Paul is discussing his new glorified body or "dwelling places" (not made with hands which is eternal in the heavens). Paul was alive at the time, but was talking about his new glorified body (building) already existing in the heavens!

We might ask, "What do you mean, Paul? How is your new eternal body existing right now in the heavens?" I think the answer would be when Jesus said He was going to prepare a "dwelling for us" (John 14:2-3), He was really referencing not a mansion, but He was going to heaven to prepare our NEW BODIES for us so that when He returns at the rapture/resurrection, we will get those new bodies in which we will dwell and live forever.

We can show this further because 2 Cor 5:1-2 is showing a contrast between our earthly tent (current weak body) and the new building (eternal) .... where? In the heavens! Something to at least ponder. :)

Blessings to you!

I go to prepare a place for you: Love prepares a welcome. With love, expectant parents prepare a room for the baby. With love, the hostess prepares for her guests. Jesus prepares a place for His people because He loves them and is confident of their arrival.[ii]

 

 

 

---

Mondo Gonzales (Prophecy Watchers)

[ii] 2018 David Guzik

 

Blessings Dennis,

It is a lovely passage- Promise Giving us His Blessed Assurance- Praise Jesus!

I don't think much about the "where" but more so about the " Way"...Jesus Tells us that He Abides in us and we in Him and He in our Father( John 14:20)

In the 19th verse Jesus is explaining He Must Leave and the world is not going to see Him but we will because He Lives- where? In us,in our Father and this is " the Way'- the Way BACK to our Heavenly Father...

Not sure if I'm explaining what is in my heart & mind but before,before Jesus Death & Resurrection there was no Way to Reside with God,no Return to I suppose"Paradise"( maybe?)

Jesus Prepares this "Place" by Sending Holy Spirit to Give Life to our spirit that we may Abide in Him -Father,Son & Holy Spirit - the GodHead( the Many Mansions or Dwelling Places of Glory). His Glorious Presence to me is "Heaven".. 

I cannot even pretend to imagine what a true paradise will be or where it is because I only know "space" as the limited place my physical body occupies- who could understand what a New Glorified Body even means,that state of being outside the confines of space and time as we know it- not I!!!

So I simply Receive the Knowledge that Jesus Promises Eternal Life,I don't care where I'll be,only that I Will be....."I Will NEVER leave you...." His Word,❤️

 

 

 

[ChristB4us]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Remember that Jesus was speaking to the 12 disciples there who have a different inheritance from us. And the New Jerusalem was built by God in heaven, and comes down to the lower heavens to rule over the earth. (Heb. 11: 10,  Rev. 21: 2)

The Body of Christ however is located on `mount Zion, ` the symbolic rulership position in the third heaven. (Heb. 12: 22)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ² In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

At the time Jesus had said this, Judas Iscariot had left to betray Him in the 13th chapter of the Book of John.

John 13: 21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. 22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake. 23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. 25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. 28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. 29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor. 30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

So Jesus was saying that in John 14th chapter to the remaining 11 disciples at the Last Supper.

A small oversight but a rather important information since He did not say that in John 14th chapter to Judas Iscariot who was lost as prophesied.

John 17:19 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

[BibleWords]

15 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ² In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

I have always considered this to refer to the New Jerusalem, our eternal dwelling place on earth. With further study and exchanging thoughts with some experts, I am unsure now, and I now suspect it could allude to our heavenly (glorified) bodies. What are your thoughts?

The following are some condensed commentary:

What I was after in my original reply was that there might be some other line of thinking in regards to the "room" that Jesus mentions in John 14:1-3. Too often we get stuck on the KJV or NKJV translation "mansions." That really is a poor translation for our contemporary audience. If we skip the KJV and go straight to the Greek, we see that the word is "dwelling places." 

I brought up 2 Cor 5 because Paul is discussing his new glorified body or "dwelling places" (not made with hands which is eternal in the heavens). Paul was alive at the time, but was talking about his new glorified body (building) already existing in the heavens!

We might ask, "What do you mean, Paul? How is your new eternal body existing right now in the heavens?" I think the answer would be when Jesus said He was going to prepare a "dwelling for us" (John 14:2-3), He was really referencing not a mansion, but He was going to heaven to prepare our NEW BODIES for us so that when He returns at the rapture/resurrection, we will get those new bodies in which we will dwell and live forever.

We can show this further because 2 Cor 5:1-2 is showing a contrast between our earthly tent (current weak body) and the new building (eternal) .... where? In the heavens! Something to at least ponder. :)

Blessings to you!

I go to prepare a place for you: Love prepares a welcome. With love, expectant parents prepare a room for the baby. With love, the hostess prepares for her guests. Jesus prepares a place for His people because He loves them and is confident of their arrival.[ii]

 

 

 

---

Mondo Gonzales (Prophecy Watchers)

[ii] 2018 David Guzik

 

The context of Scripture here is Jesus going somewhere (the Father’s house) where there are (many rooms) and He  will come again and receive His Bride to go to be where He is (the Father’s house).

Not anything about this being our new bodies. The Father’s house is a place already existing where Jesus is going to prepare especially for His bride.

We will receive glorified bodies at the rapture, this is true, but this text refers to the Father’s already existing house.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, BibleWords said:

The context of Scripture here is Jesus going somewhere (the Father’s house) where there are (many rooms) and He  will come again and receive His Bride to go to be where He is (the Father’s house).

Not anything about this being our new bodies. The Father’s house is a place already existing where Jesus is going to prepare especially for His bride.

We will receive glorified bodies at the rapture, this is true, but this text refers to the Father’s already existing house.

An add-on. As with the Jewish betrothal custom of the son adding an extension to his father's house, he and his bride must dwell or abide. When the father saw the extension was acceptable, he told his son to fetch his bride.

No one knew the day or the time, but the bride was expected to wait and watch for her groom's unexpected arrival patiently.

The Jewish wedding customs exactly mirror what we are told about the Rapture. I suspect the "add-on" is the New Jerusalem and the place Jesus promised to go and prepare.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ² In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

At the time Jesus had said this, Judas Iscariot had left to betray Him in the 13th chapter of the Book of John.

John 13: 21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. 22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake. 23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. 25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. 28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. 29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor. 30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

So Jesus was saying that in John 14th chapter to the remaining 11 disciples at the Last Supper.

A small oversight but a rather important information since He did not say that in John 14th chapter to Judas Iscariot who was lost as prophesied.

John 17:19 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

Yes, Judas was not included. But the Lord was not taken unawares.

`For it is written, in the book of Psalms: "let his habitation be desolate, and let no one live in it," and "Let another take his OFFICE." (Ps. 69: 25)

`Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, ..... one of these must become a witness...` (Acts 1: 20 - 22)

[TheBlade]

I love the old Jewish wedding which all of them would fully understand when Christ said I go back to my Fathers house. They Father son would pay a price for her and the son would then go back to his fathers house to make them a home. She would wait yet not know when he will come back so she had to always be watching and that candle lit. 

Then about a year later mostly at night he comes back with some friends and as he gets close makes a sound so she knows its him. He takes her back to his fathers house for about a week. I looked into this so many times.. its not the word but it was what they did back then.

This Messiah as they looked at Him who never lied to them and everything He ever told them always came to pass. They would know as He said if this was not true I would have told you.  He left and said I will come back receive you unto my self so "where" I am you "will" be. He said again where I go you know and how. So where is He? He has made a home a place for us where He is. This has to happen so many leave this out. 

As for mansion or place or home.. we walk on streets of gold.. it will be exactly what you like. 

[ChristB4us]

On 4/25/2023 at 6:59 PM, Marilyn C said:

Yes, Judas was not included. But the Lord was not taken unawares.

`For it is written, in the book of Psalms: "let his habitation be desolate, and let no one live in it," and "Let another take his OFFICE." (Ps. 69: 25)

`Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, ..... one of these must become a witness...` (Acts 1: 20 - 22)

I agree that the Lord was not taken unaware when He said it was prophesied.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

I just wanted every one to be clear when Jesus was speaking in John 14th chapter, He was speaking to the eleven remaining disciples after Judas Iscariot had left to betray Him and so what He said in john 14th chapter, He was not saying that to Judas Iscariot whom was prophesied to be lost.