What is your View of the 1,000 year Kingdom?

[WilliamL]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

This is the Satanic doctrine - the view that we will come back with Christ to do a bloody battle, killing people and in the millennium also killing people and that Christ will be on the earth with His Body.

Zech. 14:4 ...in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...

Jesus will have dominion over all realms, 3 heavenly and one earthly. Nothing will be able to keep Him from going wherever He wants to go throughout any of these realms, Earth included. That is the prerogative of kings.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

This seems a little strong to me - saying it's a "Satanic doctrine" is perhaps not an effective way to carry on a good back & forth conversation between saints.

And I'm with you Kwik - I got lost in all the back and forth!  Maybe someone could summarize the main points in 2-3 concise bullets.  Who is willing do a clear & brief summary for the rest of us?

Let's go for clarity and not agreement. (and also remember that this is not essentials of the faith teachings here)

Thanks!

CC: @AdHoc

Thanks. herewith a short version - but 2 - 3 bullets is quite a challenge. Let's see ...

- Some saints in Thessaloniki had died. The Church were sorrowing because only the living are raptured. They must have their bodies
- Paul assured the Thessalonians that the dead Christians would also be in the company of the living when they came with Christ.
- Revelation 19 has our Lord returning to earth to make war and the armies (plural) of heaven will be with Him
- The question then is how do the dead in Christ get to where the living were.
- The answer is that "at His coming" those who are His will be resurrected (1st Cor.15:23)
- Resurrection only brings a man to the surface of the earth, so the dead who are alive again meet the living on the surface.
- Then TOGETHER they are raptured to meet the Lord in the air
- In this way the (now) dead can come with the Lord when He returns to earth
- With this hope the Thessalonian saints were comforted

[kwikphilly]

56 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Thank you for your fair and honest appraisal. I'll try the short version in answer to Vine Abider's post.

Go well.

Lol-awww,I do love reading your shorter versions but thats just me..... Certainly some things are quite difficult to sum up in a tidy little package for easy reading

Thank you for the kind reply -always a pleasure

In His Love,Kwik

[Who me]

On 7/16/2023 at 3:20 PM, AdHoc said:

There is no reason to make it a sign. Consider this

When words like, ' likely' and ' around ' are used about what are presented as detailed calculations I have enormous  doubts about the validity of that argument.

[Who me]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:37 PM, Vine Abider said:

Yes, but I think there's a mix of symbolic and literal in Revelation.  In any case, I think we will all be amazed as to how the Lord actually unfolds it all! 

(And for a more detailed answer, I like what @AdHoc said above!)

That I agree with and is why I stay with the idea that the word pictures etc in revelation are symbolic.

 

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Who me said:

When words like, ' likely' and ' around ' are used about what are presented as detailed calculations I have enormous  doubts about the validity of that argument.

There is a reason for this. Different scholars come to different conclusions. So, whatever number I come up with will be attacked and the true theme of the thread will be derailed. So if I say Israel occupied the Land for around 900 years, those who say 885 years and those who say 916 years don't have ammunition to derail the thread with an argument that has no bearing on the matter. If it was a case of 999 years versus 1021 then it would count to be precise. But all scholars know that "around" 900 is correct.

But I have a question for you. In 1st Kings 6:1 we read;

1 And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD

But in Acts 13:14-22, Paul gives the following calculation; 40 years wilderness, 450 years Judges, 40 years Saul, 40 years David and the temple was started after 3 completed years of Solomon (IN the 4th year). That gives 573 years.

Now, your statement above about the "validity" starts to get serious. Do you doubt the Bible? What is the solution?

[Who me]

The ancient world had a different  attitude to time and recording events.

In recording when a king started his reign that would include a period when he acted as a regent or as Co ruler.

Partial  years would be counted as whole years.

 

No I don't  have an answer to your question.

[enoob57]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:16 PM, Vine Abider said:

  He brought out that overcomers are to "rule the nations with a rod of iron" (Rev 2:27)

The kingdom of God:
The eternal past God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit then we have

Revelation 21:1 (KJV)

[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

...

Revelation 22:5 (KJV)

[5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of God shall not end... and as God in our beginning, so, God in the everlasting...
Psalms 145:13 (KJV)

[13] Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

When God's kingdom is so defined the only thing that meets that criteria is the eternal state...  It is why all else will be removed from memory...

Knowledge will cease:

1 Cor 13:8; Rev 21:1-5; Isa 65:17

Some contend that the earth will be renovated but according to God's Word 'all things will be made new' ... 

God is going to make all things new (cf. Isa 42:9; 48:6; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13)

 Isa 62:2

1.    new things, Isa 42:9; 48:6

2.    new song, Isa 42:10 (cf. Rev 5:9; 14:3)

3.    something new, Isa 43:19 (cf. Rev 3:12)

4.    new name, Isa 62:2 (cf. Isa 56:5)

5.    new heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17; 66:22 (cf. 2 Peter 3:13)

 

The "new" everlasting day (cf. Rev 21:5) was, in reality, the day that God always wanted for humans, but the Fall in Gen 3 caused a terrible disruption! It is surely possible that the Bible's imagery of heaven is a new Garden of Eden (cf. Rev 21:2), where sin has never been nor brought into the mind.

 

 

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The kingdom of God:
The eternal past God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit then we have

Revelation 21:1 (KJV)

[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

...

Revelation 22:5 (KJV)

[5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of God shall not end... and as God in our beginning, so, God in the everlasting...
Psalms 145:13 (KJV)

[13] Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

When God's kingdom is so defined the only thing that meets that criteria is the eternal state...  It is why all else will be removed from memory...

Knowledge will cease:

1 Cor 13:8; Rev 21:1-5; Isa 65:17

Some contend that the earth will be renovated but according to God's Word 'all things will be made new' ... 

God is going to make all things new (cf. Isa 42:9; 48:6; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13)

 Isa 62:2

1.    new things, Isa 42:9; 48:6

2.    new song, Isa 42:10 (cf. Rev 5:9; 14:3)

3.    something new, Isa 43:19 (cf. Rev 3:12)

4.    new name, Isa 62:2 (cf. Isa 56:5)

5.    new heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17; 66:22 (cf. 2 Peter 3:13)

 

The "new" everlasting day (cf. Rev 21:5) was, in reality, the day that God always wanted for humans, but the Fall in Gen 3 caused a terrible disruption! It is surely possible that the Bible's imagery of heaven is a new Garden of Eden (cf. Rev 21:2), where sin has never been nor brought into the mind.

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure what you're trying to bring out here - could you please summarize?

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Who me said:

The ancient world had a different  attitude to time and recording events.

In recording when a king started his reign that would include a period when he acted as a regent or as Co ruler.

Partial  years would be counted as whole years.

 

No I don't  have an answer to your question.

Okay. My example was to answer your objection to me saying "around". First let me say that I agree with you. Let's be as accurate as we can be.

Next, the answer to my question is not rocket science. The difference between Solomon's calculation of 480 years and the 573 years of Paul is 93 years. If we add the years that Israel was chastised by being under a foreign king in Judges, we come to 111 years. But 18 of these year were the concurrent reign of two nations. If we lump them as one chastisement then we get 93 years.

It would seem that God did not count the years that Israel was under foreign government. This is confirmed in Daniel 9 with the gap between the 69th seven and the seventieth seven. This period is the period of foreign rule with the Temple left "desolate" (Matt.23:38) and later destroyed, leaving God with no House on earth. Again, this calculation is used in the prophecy of Joel, as it was fulfilled on Pentecost. In Joel the whole New Testament age is left out (Joel.2:28-31).

Interesting, but not crucial.