Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

This is not possible for a saved person.  Jesus taught in John 5:24 that whoever believes (present tense) HAS (possesses) eternal life.  This means from the MOMENT of saving faith, the believer possesses eternal life.

And WHILE they do, they do.  WHILE they have it.  IF they were to DIE at that moment, then THEY WOULD.

Well,this response means one of only two possibilities.  Either

1. you don't understand John 5:24 and 10:28, or

2.  you don't believe what Jesus said in the verses.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

PRESENT2192. echó ►
Strong's Concordance
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Definition: to have, hold
Usage: I have, hold, possess.

Thank you for supporting my point about John 5:24.  The verse says "those who believe HAVE eternal life".  That means POSSESS, as I noted.  So, again, from the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life.  And then, in John 10:28, Jesus SAID (you know, "it is written") recipients of eternal life shall never never never perish.  

{note:  I repeated the word "never" for emphasis.}

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It becomes ours.  BUT that doesn't guarantee it REMAINS OURS.

It certainly does, because Jesus said (it is written) that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.  The FACT is, that "it is written", one of your fav phrases, shows that you don't really believe what you say, apparently.

Jesus said it and John wrote it down, and yet, you think differently than what Jesus said.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  That comes from MAN, not GOD.  That comes from DOCTRINES of man NOT precept on precept find Gods rest TEACHINGS.

Well, of course Jesus was fully MAN, but He is also fully GOD, so your point is pointless.  Jesus very clearly taught eternal security, but you have chosen to believe something else, contrary to what Jesus taught.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  WHY even warn about being deceived, if deception is not possible?

Of course believers can be deceived!  We see it all the time.  Just look at the WIDE variety of contradictory doctrines throughout evangelicalism.

Those who believe salvation can be lost have been deceived.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  As I have mentioned time and again, there is to be a resurrection OF THE DEAD.

This has no bearing on salvation.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  both THE JUST aka saved but fallen away in one way or another AND the unjust neve  r have been saved but have the Lords Day to get their name into the book of life.

OK, where "is it written"?  All you are doing is contradicting what Jesus SAID.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  UNLESS you know of a way someone can get their name into the book of life WHILE IN HELL.

Those in hell NEVER believed.  Didn't you read ALL of my post?  I quoted John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 as proof that only those who NEVER believed will be condemned.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

This verse teaches about the resurrection of the saved; those who were given eternal life.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who was DEAD under the Law of Sin and Death?  Those under the OLD COVENANT.  DEAD because they died with A SIN or more.

This doesn't make sense.  Everyone from Adam forward are saved the SAME WAY; faith in the Messiah.  Read Acts and see how Paul evangelized;  from the Law and prophets.  

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  The FALLING away from the GIFT OF SALVATION (the gift that keeps you from paying the penalty of death) has the exact same effect.

Now you're just making up stuff.  What verse says (it is written? that anyone "falls away from the gift of salvation?  One either believes the promise of the gift, or they don't.  And ONCE they HAVE believed, they POSSESS eternal life and shall never perish.  As I have already showed from John 5:24 and 10:28.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Why Christians today think they are so special is beyond me.  It's like they don't read the OLD TESTAMENT.  Like they think GOD somehow 'changed' because He sent the SAVIOUR.  WELL, HE doesn't.  That we can count on.

You are correct about God's plan never changing.  Salvation has ALWAYS been by faith in the Messiah.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

DID YOU READ THAT???  The hour is coming IN WHICH ALL IN THE GRAVES aka THE DEAD hear

BOTH THE JUST AND THE UNJUST

AND THE SHEEP AND GOATS OF THEM ARE DIVIDED

Sure.  The saved and the unsaved.  What is your point here?

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

and the DEAD that resurrect unto the resurrection of LIFE will for 1000 years WORK to get their names in the book of life

No, there are NO verses where 'it is written' what you claim.  Again, John 5:24 and 10:28 refute your unbiblical claims.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

but the DEAD who resurrect unto the resurrection of damnation are cast back, and not until those who stand at the GWTJ are judged DO THEY EVEN RISE UP  to be cast into the lake of fire.

The ONLY REASON people are cast into the LOF is because they NEVER believed and received the gift of eternal life.  You know, "it IS written", which I shared in my previous post to you.  Either you didn't read that part of my post, or you have rejected them.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  THAT'S THE THING with believing EXACTLY what is written as it is written.  It's perfect.

That's MY point!  You haven't provided ANY verse that SAYS what you SAY.  You quote verses but they DON'T say what you say.  You totally misunderstand them, and ignore the 2 most clear verses in the Bible about eternal security.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The only way for one of THE DEAD to be just is to have been saved but LOST IT.  

BECAUSE THE LIVING/never die/1st resurrection...have 'followed Him' to be where He is and that is in heaven at the right hand of God.  They are 'BEARING' their heavenly bodies having been RAISED in glory and power and IMMORTAL. 

The Bible doesn't teach any of this.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 I am given a diamond ring.  I have/possess a diamond ring.  I take it off and throw it off a cliff into the ocean.  I no longer have/possess a diamond ring.

Please show me any verse that teaches that the gift of eternal life can be removed, taken off, etc.  Eternal life isn't anything like a diamond ring.  Your example fails on that basis.  It is a permanent gift.  Jesus SAID SO.  When one believes, they POSSESS the gift, per John 5:24.  In Jn 10:28, Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life shall never perish.  But your view disagrees with what Jesus said.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  DOESN'T change the FACT I was given one.  

doesn't mean they don't go to hell, does it?

Yes, it DOES mean possessors of eternal life don't go to hell.  Didn't you read John 3:18 and 2 Thress 2:12?  They say condemnation is for those who NEVER believed.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Perish obliteration doesn't take place until the 2nd death.

This refers to the resurrected yet still MORTAL bodies of the unbelievers.  They get to physically DIE twice!!  But their immaterial souls will "be tormented day and night for ever and ever", per Rev 20:10.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Just because your beliefs don't allow something does not make God a liar.

It is your claims that would make Him a liar, for Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, and here you are, claiming that some recipients of eternal life WILL perish.  In direct contradiction to what Jesus taught.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  CHRIST is faithful.  Christ will always be faithful.  HIS WORK IS DONE AND CAN NEVER BE CHANGED.  Us on the other are WARNED

Such wording clearly insinuates that you believe that salvation is based on works.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

DO NOT be deceived...

I haven't.  I have shown you "it is written" all about eternal security, and yet, you continue to reject that teaching from Jesus' own mouth.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Many will fall away...

Falling away isn't about salvation, but about one's faith.  They are different, and again, the Bible SAYS that believers possess eternal life (John 5:24) and recipients of eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).  

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If you take the mark of the beast YOU ARE GOING TO DESCEND and won't be ascending until CHRIST's 2ND Advent, because that is when the DEAD are raised.

The "if" is key.  There is NO mention in Scripture that any believer will take the mark.  You are just speculating.  And your speculation is in direct conflict with what Jesus SAID.  No doubt believers who WOULD take the mark won't live that long, because that would prove that God is a liar, given the promises He has given throughout Scripture about the security ALL believers have.  Since God is omniscient, and knows any believer who would take the mark, won't be around long enough to take it.  God will call them home first.  Or He WOULD be a liar.  And He isn't going to tel that happen.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IT IS WRITTEN AS A SINGLE EVENT EVERY TIME IT IS MENTIONED, and only the doctrines of man REQUIRE A SEPARATION OF THEM because they can't figure out how it really all goes and they can't get help from another cause they are all taught the same thing

Ironic how you just love to say "it is written" but you are in direct conflict with what Jesus taught about eternal security.  Why do you do that?

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

but EITHER you believe what is written or you don't

That is exactly my statement to YOU.  And we know what you don't believe;  Jesus' words in John 5:24 and 10:28.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Either we can fall away or we can't.  Either we can be deceived or we can't.  Either we have to Abide or we don't.  Either we have to obey or we don't.

Sure.  All of life is made up of choices.  But "falling away" isn't about salvation, or Jesus lied in both John 5:234 and 10:28.  But He didn't lie, and you are deceived by false doctrine.  If any of what you said above relates to security, then you believe that your own efforts will save you.  My trust is in the work of Christ.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  God will not be mocked.

Claiming that salvation can be lost MOCKS God directly, because He has clearly promised that those who have received eternal life shall never perish.

Please stop mocking God.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.  WE ENTER into a covenant relationship.  There is divorce as GOD has divorced before.

Read what Jesus said about God's view of marriage.  "let not man put asunder".  iow, God rejected divorce.  Abraham allowed it because of the HARDNESS of man's heart.

btw, salvation is NOT a "covenantal relationship" any more than your relationship with your parents is one.  That is a very FALSE teaching.  Once born into a family, your parents CANNOT become UNparents.  You have their DNA in you.  Just like God's children have His DNA in them (the Holy Spirit), and Jesus SAID the Holy Spirit will NEVER leave you.  But you have other ideas about that, huh.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV

That's what I've been doing for a very long time.  And I have provided many verses that directly refute your claims.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Corinthians 5:9 - Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

This isn't about salvation in any sense.  It is about approval at the Bema and where eternal reward will be given.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Corinthians 6:3-4 - Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

Nothing about loss of salvation here.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hebrews 4:11 - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The "rest" of Hebrews isn't about salvation.  It's about one's eternal reward, which IS based on works.  We earn reward, we are saved by GRACE through faith.  Eph 2:8  

IT IS WRITTEN.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There are a couple.  

You haven't yet quoted any verse that says salvation can be lost, and your claims are in direct conflict with what Jesus SAID.

IT IS WRITTEN.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

   11 hours ago,  FreeGrace said: 

All believers are God's possession AND the indwelling Holy Spirit GUARANTEES our inheritance until the "redemption" which is the resurrection.

Just as those who AREN'T.  He is the God of the Living and NOT THE DEAD.

It appears you also don't understand, or have rejected Eph 1;13,14, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 then.  The believer's inheritance is guaranteed.  You obviously don't believe that.

But, IT IS WRITTEN.  So you'd better believe it.

Maybe changing churches where the TRUTH is taught.

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you REALLY believe that someone raised up in the Lord who THEN chooses to become a murderer RETAINS the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling in them???  Truly?

IT IS WRITTEN.  Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be with believers forever.  Believe it.

Why would anyone think any sin would result in loss of salvation, or the Holy Spirit?  That would make God a LIAR.  Is that your point?

What verse in the NT teaches that any behavior can result in loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation?  Of course, there aren't any.

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

say it ain't so

That would make me a liar, because I know the truth and I have given it to you.  It is yours to believe or reject.  But, IT IS WRITTEN so you have no excuse for your false doctrine.

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

You absolutely have NOT GIVEN ANY PROOF.  Just because you call it PROOF doesn't make it so, it is just your interpretation and your statement of what you believe.

So the clear and straightforward words of Jesus isn't proof????  You are just kidding (deceiving) yourself.

If the verses I've shared mean something else and do not teach eternal security, why haven't you even tried to explain them and show me what they do teach then?

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  No different that the 2nd death ISN'T DEATH or

A resurrection of BOTH the just and the unjust ISN'T BOTH but are TWO DIFFERENT resurrections at different times.  

We've been over this many times in the past, and I am convinced that you aren't willing to open your eyes to understand, or unable to comprehend.  Your views on resurrection are quite far from what the Bible teaches.  

I have to wonder WHERE you got all your "information" from or WHO has been leading you astray.

Edited August 21, 2023 by FreeGrace

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What happens to those who fall away and take the mark of the beast having been deceived by his lying signs and wonders?

Just pure speculation.  If God were allow any believer to take the mark, He would be a liar, and we know He's not going to let that happen.  

Heb 6:18 - God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.

You have been shown where IT IS WRITTEN that all believers are guaranteed security.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is the problem with OSAS BEING TAUGHT or brought up.  

Based on concluWosions men have made ABOUT what is written, a doctrine NOT TAUGHT by anyone in the Bible, is taught as Gods Truth.

False.  As I've shown you, Jesus Himself taught eternal security.  First, the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life. John 5:24  Then, Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 1o:28

Your views are fighting with God's Word.

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 It is the DOCTRINE that draws the lines we are not to color outside of.  Problem is it NEGATES truths that we are given.

Jesus taught the doctrine of eternal security, as you've been shown.

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Who wins?  Satan.  

Satan wins when he deceives believers into thinking that they are in charge of their own salvation.  And can lose it.

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So - do they still have God's life in them?  Did they become unborn somehow just because they acted grievously? Do they cease being God's children, born of His life and therefore Christ's brothers & sisters, because they did bad things?

Choose life or sin/death.  It's that simple.  

What happens to someone who is born and then starves themselves?  


"When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby." Ezekiel 33:18 KJV
 
Is that being UN born?  or is that GODS TRUTH?


"Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand." Ezekiel 3:20 KJV

We CAN'T TURN from righteousness without there being consequences, death.  


7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Those 'just' souls become a part of the JUST DEAD.  But when Christ returns what happens to the DEAD?  

The dead IN CHRIST rise up FROM HELL (just as the LIVING in Christ followed Him).

So, are they unborn?  no   Do they end up as one of the DEAD, yes.  


"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19 KJV

What happens to someone NOT found in the book of life??  are they 'unborn' OR do they die?



"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me," Psalms 40:7 KJV

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18 KJV


"And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule My people Israel." Matthew 2:6 KJV

and there came one,
and He is ruling over His people
and we call Him, Christ Jesus


 

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So - do they still have God's life in them?  Did they become unborn somehow just because they acted grievously? Do they cease being God's children, born of His life and therefore Christ's brothers & sisters, because they did bad things?

NO, but the 'just' do go to hell. 

 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[DeighAnn]

46 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Well,this response means one of only two possibilities.  Either

1. you don't understand John 5:24 and 10:28, or

2.  you don't believe what Jesus said in the verses.

It MEANS THAT TO YOU.  

 

 

46 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Thank you for supporting my point about John 5:24.  The verse says "those who believe HAVE eternal life".  That means POSSESS, as I noted.  So, again, from the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life.  And then, in John 10:28, Jesus SAID (you know, "it is written") recipients of eternal life shall never never never perish.  

{note:  I repeated the word "never" for emphasis.}

How about putting the emphasis on the covenant and their BELIEF

 

47 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, of course Jesus was fully MAN, but He is also fully GOD, so your point is pointless.  Jesus very clearly taught eternal security, but you have chosen to believe something else, contrary to what Jesus taught.

??? your response makes no sense since I wasn't speaking to Jesus being man, so ditto on the point being pointless


 

 

49 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course believers can be deceived!  We see it all the time.  Just look at the WIDE variety of contradictory doctrines throughout evangelicalism.

Those who believe salvation can be lost have been deceived.

No, those who have been deceived have taken the mark of the beast.  

 

50 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This has no bearing on salvation.

not to you

 

 

50 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

OK, where "is it written"?  All you are doing is contradicting what Jesus SAID

AGAIN?  how many times do I need to show it to you.  

maybe THIS WAY since you have been going here for the world age discussion

Strong's    Greek    English    Morphology
1680 [e]    ἐλπίδα
elpida    a hope    N-AFS
2192 [e]    ἔχων
echōn    having    V-PPA-NMS
1519 [e]    εἰς
eis    in    Prep
3588 [e]    τὸν
ton    -    Art-AMS
2316 [e]    Θεόν,
Theon    God    N-AMS
3739 [e]    ἣν
hēn    which    RelPro-AFS
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    also    Conj
846 [e]    αὐτοὶ
autoi    they    PPro-NM3P
3778 [e]    οὗτοι
houtoi    themselves    DPro-NMP
4327 [e]    προσδέχονται,
prosdechontai    await,    V-PIM/P-3P
386 [e]    ἀνάστασιν
anastasin    [that] a resurrection    N-AFS     SINGULAR
3195 [e]    μέλλειν
mellein    there is about    V-PNA
1510 [e]    ἔσεσθαι
esesthai    to be    V-FNM
1342 [e]    δικαίων
dikaiōn    of [the] just    Adj-GMP
5037 [e]    τε
te    both    Conj  
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
94 [e]    ἀδίκων.
adikōn    of [the] unjust.    Adj-GMP



 

 

55 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Those in hell NEVER believed.  Didn't you read ALL of my post?  I quoted John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 as proof that only those who NEVER believed will be condemned.

How did they get to be JUST?

 

 

56 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Now you're just making up stuff.  What verse says (it is written? that anyone "falls away from the gift of salvation?  One either believes the promise of the gift, or they don't.  And ONCE they HAVE believed, they POSSESS eternal life and shall never perish.  As I have already showed from John 5:24 and 10:28

what do you think they fall away from?  The deception?  

 

57 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This doesn't make sense.  Everyone from Adam forward are saved the SAME WAY; faith in the Messiah.  Read Acts and see how Paul evangelized;  from the Law and prophets.

Tell that to Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Issac and Jacob

 

58 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

 What is your point here?

singular resurrection

 

59 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, there are NO verses where 'it is written' what you claim.  Again, John 5:24 and 10:28 refute your unbiblical claims.

When Christ returns THE DEAD RISE

At the GWTJ, the DEAD are judged

after the dead are judged, hell death and the sea give up their dead. 



52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1000 years later.....

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


 

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

That's MY point!  You haven't provided ANY verse that SAYS what you SAY.  You quote verses but they DON'T say what you say.  You totally misunderstand them, and ignore the 2 most clear verses in the Bible about eternal security.

 what they say I say

I don't ignore them, you say I do because I don't agree.  

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

It is your claims that would make Him a liar, for Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, and here you are, claiming that some recipients of eternal life WILL perish.  In direct contradiction to what Jesus taught.

It was about those who do perish.  

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Please show me any verse that teaches that the gift of eternal life can be removed, taken off, etc.  Eternal life isn't anything like a diamond ring.  Your example fails on that basis.  It is a permanent gift.  Jesus SAID SO.  When one believes, they POSSESS the gift, per John 5:24.  In Jn 10:28, Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life shall never perish.  But your view disagrees with what Jesus said.

Already did many times.  You just aren't able to see.

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Such wording clearly insinuates that you believe that salvation is based on works.

Clearly you don't understand that the work Jesus did on the Cross IS PAST so salvation CAN'T be of works.  

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

What is your point here?

What's your question here?

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible doesn't teach any of this.

It does.

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

I have to wonder WHERE you got all your "information" from or WHO has been leading you astray.

That would be the Bible and the Holy Spirit who has been leading me.  

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Just pure speculation.

Now you are calling a question speculation?   We don't seem to agree on anything.


 How about just answering the question?

What happens to those who take the mark of the beast?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Ironic how you just love to say "it is written" but you are in direct conflict with what Jesus taught about eternal security.  Why do you do that?

When have I said that?   You are able to disregard statements that I am not able to.  I think everything written has meaning and isn't just randomly said for no reason.  

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." Philippians 3:12 KJV


I have no idea how far I have gotten into your questions but I am done.  We don't agree.  Have a good day.