Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[NConly]

John 1

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

[phoneman-777]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

But we can be judged to die AND to go to hell. 

We ENTER INTO A COVENANT RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.  He has his part, we have ours. 

Just like a marriage.  You both pledge to be faithful.  Then your spouse starts having adulterous relationships one after the other.  ARE YOU STUCK FOREVER with that spouse because you said I do?  


Jesus died.  Defeated death by paying the penalty for death for those of us who enter into a covenant relationship with Him.  

His DEATH and RESURRECTION and defeating death and the ransom paid and HIM BECOMING THE LAMB of God and a HIGH PRIEST  NEVER ever changes.   HE remains faithful 

ARE we faithful or not?  THAT IS UP TO US.  IF we ABIDE, IF we obey, IF we follow, IF we repent, IF we do all the things that hearing the words made us say 'yes' to, THEN FOR SURE there remains that SACRIFICE FOR US.  Fall into 'idolatry' AND IT'S DIVORCE.
 

 

WE ARE IN HIM...and as long as we are....but WE CAN'T change EITHER.  

And all souls belong to GOD.  But no all souls will go to heaven, not all souls will find their names in the book of life.  


 

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

I can't understand how the OSAS crowd - a crowd which would have the rest of us believe they've cornered the market of knowledge concerning God's love and compassion and faithfulness - is blind to the fact that God gave us the MARRIAGE COVENANT between husband and wife as an EXAMPLE of the kind of intimate relationship He desires with us...blindness which is evidenced by the fact that they expect God to tolerate habitual unfaithfulness, while they themselves are ready to divorce by the mere discovery of a hidden playboy magazine.

Edited August 21, 2023 by phoneman-777

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

This is not possible for a saved person.  Jesus taught in John 5:24 that whoever believes (present tense) HAS (possesses) eternal life.  This means from the MOMENT of saving faith, the believer possesses eternal life.

And WHILE they do, they do.  WHILE they have it.  IF they were to DIE at that moment, then THEY WOULD.  

 

 

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

PRESENT2192. echó ►
Strong's Concordance
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Definition: to have, hold
Usage: I have, hold, possess.


It becomes ours.  BUT that doesn't guarantee it REMAINS OURS.  That comes from MAN, not GOD.  That comes from DOCTRINES of man NOT precept on precept find Gods rest TEACHINGS.  

WHY even warn about being deceived, if deception is not possible?  

As I have mentioned time and again, there is to be a resurrection OF THE DEAD.  
both THE JUST aka saved but fallen away in one way or another AND the unjust never have been saved but have the Lords Day to get their name into the book of life.  

UNLESS you know of a way someone can get their name into the book of life WHILE IN HELL.

25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Who was DEAD under the Law of Sin and Death?  Those under the OLD COVENANT.  DEAD because they died with A SIN or more.  

The FALLING away from the GIFT OF SALVATION (the gift that keeps you from paying the penalty of death) has the exact same effect.  Why Christians today think they are so special is beyond me.  It's like they don't read the OLD TESTAMENT.  Like they think GOD somehow 'changed' because He sent the SAVIOUR.  WELL, HE doesn't.  That we can count on.  



26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

DID YOU READ THAT???  The hour is coming IN WHICH ALL IN THE GRAVES aka THE DEAD hear

BOTH THE JUST AND THE UNJUST

AND THE SHEEP AND GOATS OF THEM ARE DIVIDED

and the DEAD that resurrect unto the resurrection of LIFE will for 1000 years WORK to get their names in the book of life

but the DEAD who resurrect unto the resurrection of damnation are cast back, and not until those who stand at the GWTJ are judged DO THEY EVEN RISE UP  to be cast into the lake of fire.  

THAT'S THE THING with believing EXACTLY what is written as it is written.  It's perfect.  

The only way for one of THE DEAD to be just is to have been saved but LOST IT.  

BECAUSE THE LIVING/never die/1st resurrection...have 'followed Him' to be where He is and that is in heaven at the right hand of God.  They are 'BEARING' their heavenly bodies having been RAISED in glory and power and IMMORTAL.  



I am given a diamond ring.  I have/possess a diamond ring.  I take it off and throw it off a cliff into the ocean.  I no longer have/possess a diamond ring.  

DOESN'T change the FACT I was given one.  

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus taught that recipients of eternal life (believers) SHALL NEVER PERISH.  Couldn't be more clear.

doesn't mean they don't go to hell, does it?  Perish obliteration doesn't take place until the 2nd death.  

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

No believer will be condemned to hell, or God is a liar.

Just because your beliefs don't allow something does not make God a liar.  

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

If salvation is based on a pledge to be faithful, then salvation is by works, plain and simple.  What verse teaches this?

CHRIST is faithful.  Christ will always be faithful.  HIS WORK IS DONE AND CAN NEVER BE CHANGED.  Us on the other are WARNED 

DO NOT be deceived...

Many will fall away...

If you take the mark of the beast YOU ARE GOING TO DESCEND and won't be ascending until CHRIST's 2ND Advent, because that is when the DEAD are raised.

AND before you go to the JUST resurrection comes first and 1000 years later the unjust 

IT IS WRITTEN AS A SINGLE EVENT EVERY TIME IT IS MENTIONED, and only the doctrines of man REQUIRE A SEPARATION OF THEM because they can't figure out how it really all goes and they can't get help from another cause they are all taught the same thing

but EITHER you believe what is written or you don't


Either we can fall away or we can't.  Either we can be deceived or we can't.  Either we have to Abide or we don't.  Either we have to obey or we don't.  

God will not be mocked.  


Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.  WE ENTER into a covenant relationship.  There is divorce as GOD has divorced before.  


 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

So our salvation is ultimately "up to us", huh.  Where does the Bible teach that?

You love to say "it is written".  Well, now would be a very good time to provide the verses that say what you are claiming.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV


2 Corinthians 5:9 - Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2 Corinthians 6:3-4 - Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 


Hebrews 4:11 - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


There are a couple.  

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

All believers are God's possession AND the indwelling Holy Spirit GUARANTEES our inheritance until the "redemption" which is the resurrection.

Just as those who AREN'T.  He is the God of the Living and NOT THE DEAD..

Do you REALLY believe that someone raised up in the Lord who THEN chooses to become a murderer RETAINS the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling in them???  Truly?

say it ain't so

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

None of this relates to eternal security or loss of security.

You now have absolute proof from Scripture that one's salvation is eternally secure.  

We are to believe what "IS WRITTEN" in the Bible.  

You absolutely have NOT GIVEN ANY PROOF.  Just because you call it PROOF doesn't make it so, it is just your interpretation and your statement of what you believe.  


No different that the 2nd death ISN'T DEATH or

A resurrection of BOTH the just and the unjust ISN'T BOTH but are TWO DIFFERENT resurrections at different times.  

 

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, phoneman-777 said:

I can't understand how the OSAS crowd - a crowd which would have the rest of us believe they've cornered the market of knowledge concerning God's love and compassion and faithfulness - is blind to the fact that God gave us the MARRIAGE COVENANT between husband and wife as an EXAMPLE of the kind of intimate relationship He desires with us...blindness which is evidenced by the fact that they expect God to tolerate habitual unfaithfulness, while they themselves are ready to divorce by the mere discovery of a hidden playboy magazine.

And then there's Hosea who was told by God to marry an Unfaithful wife and love her. Was this not a picture of God's love regardless towards us?

But it seems the matter of life - coming from being born again - is overlooked, which is the topic of this thread. It is not a legal thing, it is a free gift from Him which cannot be revoked. Amazing? Yes! Simple? Yes! An Indescribable gift? Yes.. but there it is.

(BTW:"OSAS CROWD" is a categorization that has been used often. We are brothers and sisters here on this other end, okay? And we may not all fit into the category as neatly as you think...) 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Vine Abider
Clarity & typo ("wife" not "white")

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

And then there's Hosea who was told to marry an Unfaithful white and love her. Was this not a picture of God's love regardless?

What happens to those who fall away and take the mark of the beast having been deceived by his lying signs and wonders?

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

(BTW:"OSAS CROWD" is a categorization that has been used often. We are brothers and sisters here on this other end, okay? And we may not all fit into the category as neatly as you think... ) 

Here is the problem with OSAS BEING TAUGHT or brought up.  

Based on conclusions men have made ABOUT what is written, a doctrine NOT TAUGHT by anyone in the Bible, is taught as Gods Truth.  

It is the DOCTRINE that draws the lines we are not to color outside of.  Problem is it NEGATES truths that we are given.  

It is a PRIME example of why were are to learn the words of God precept on precept rather than going where we want in any way we want.  If we all start and the beginning with the FOUNDATION laid, and build upon that we would be fine.  And osas is DECEPTIVE and it ends up costing EWES their salvation because they never understand they have go to hear the words of God themself, precept on precept TO COME TO FAITH.  

Who wins?  Satan.  

[NConly]

2nd Peter

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

What happens to those who fall away and take the mark of the beast having been deceived by his lying signs and wonders?

So - do they still have God's life in them?  Did they become unborn somehow just because they acted grievously? Do they cease being God's children, born of His life and therefore Christ's brothers & sisters, because they did bad things?

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is the problem with OSAS BEING TAUGHT or brought up.  

Based on conclusions men have made ABOUT what is written, a doctrine NOT TAUGHT by anyone in the Bible, is taught as Gods Truth.  

It is the DOCTRINE that draws the lines we are not to color outside of.  Problem is it NEGATES truths that we are given.  

It is a PRIME example of why were are to learn the words of God precept on precept rather than going where we want in any way we want.  If we all start and the beginning with the FOUNDATION laid, and build upon that we would be fine.  And osas is DECEPTIVE and it ends up costing EWES their salvation because they never understand they have go to hear the words of God themself, precept on precept TO COME TO FAITH.  

Who wins?  Satan.  

Verses to support what you're stating?

Being "born-again" is very scriptural, right? If you are born of God's life, when can you then become unborn?  Being unborn is an impossibility and is not seen anywhere in God's creation. Period.

And also think of it this way .  . .  Does the bible teach that born-again believers are in Christ and does it teach that He is in these ones?  If so, we are one with Christ and His Spirit as per 1 Corinthians 6:17 ("He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit with Him").  Can Christ die again?  Certainly not!  If we are joined to Him, then neither can we.

Misbehaving children (those born of God's life) are not killed, but they are disciplined, sometimes quite severely . . . in order to be corrected.