What About The Palestinians ?

[other one]

The Koran has many conflicting verses.  To understand it, one must read it in the chronological order that it was given to Mohammad.  There are Koran you can get or there are lists giving the order to read.  Much of what was written when Mohammad was in Mecca, but there was very little spreading of his word there..  When they ran him out of Mecca, he went to Medina and built up an army and spread Islam by violence. Those verses he got in Medina are the violent side of Islam, and these verses abrogate the more non-violent ones.   What the imams teach is what they need from the general Muslims need to do.  When their numbers are not large enough to make a difference, they are peaceful people.  As their numbers increase and local powers, they get more aggressive.  Ultimately, the goal is for the whole world to be subject to Sharia Law.  Whatever it takes and whatever time it takes matters not, just the march to total subjection to Sharia.

[AnOrangeCat]

12 minutes ago, other one said:

The Koran has many conflicting verses.  To understand it, one must read it in the chronological order that it was given to Mohammad.  There are Koran you can get or there are lists giving the order to read.  Much of what was written when Mohammad was in Mecca, but there was very little spreading of his word there..  When they ran him out of Mecca, he went to Medina and built up an army and spread Islam by violence

Another important element to this is the Hadith, a body of writings outside of the Koran that was not written by Mohammad. They came after him, and in some cases considerably after him. You really can see the influences of different agendas seeping in over time if you go over it keeping that in mind.

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

I had multiple Muslim tenants in my apartment units too. They paid the rent. (One couple did so for five years adding a kid each year! )  Place was trashed but hey five kids in an apartment. oy vey!

9/11 changed things, local muslims cheered the destruction, others plotted further destruction. The risks, the simmering hatreds  no longer repressed, and now the active conflicts, have changed the reality of the day. For some long time now our local body  no longer are welcomed to meet with the local Muslim leadership for discussions as we used to be able to do, things have changed. It is a hard place this earth.

Oh that's weird. In the city where I live are a lot of muslims. Also a lot of immigrants, some places where the new ones come. Also one in my street. They wait there to see if they will become legal. I didn't even know. I played there once with the kids. I thought it was a regular playground. Then someone said: Do you live here too? The major of the city is muslim. It goes swell here.

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, other one said:

When their numbers are not large enough to make a difference, they are peaceful people.  As their numbers increase and local powers, they get more aggressive.  Ultimately, the goal is for the whole world to be subject to Sharia Law.  Whatever it takes and whatever time it takes matters not, just the march to total subjection to Sharia.

But that's the radical ones. It's fake. And moderate ones can radicalize, but there are so many who are genuinely not radical. In Israel I think it's more extreme. But in my country there are radical cells, but also loads of normal muslims. A guy from a church I was in years ago tried to get em saved. He was in contact with those radical ones. He also went to Saudi Arabia to evangelize. They respected him because he also didn't mind giving his life for his beliefs. He was just as radical as them.

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by Renskedejonge

[other one]

37 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

Another important element to this is the Hadith, a body of writings outside of the Koran that was not written by Mohammad. They came after him, and in some cases considerably after him. You really can see the influences of different agendas seeping in over time if you go over it keeping that in mind.

I'm only familiar with Bukhari's hadith, and it is supposedly the things he personally heard Mohammad say or do.  The most eye-opening document for me was finding a certified copy of the Sunni version of Sharia Law.   You can get it at Amazon, and it is titled "Reliance of the Traveller."  It's kind of pricey, but was worth the information one gets.  It is split on each page in English and Arabic and is about 1,200 pages long.

[other one]

10 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

But that's the radical ones. It's fake. And moderate ones can radicalize, but there are so many who are genuinely not radical. In Israel I think it's more extreme. But in my country there are radical cells, but also loads of normal muslims. A guy from a church I was in years ago tried to get em saved. He was in contact with those radical ones. He also went to Saudi Arabia to evangelize. They respected him because he also didn't mind giving his life for his beliefs. He was just as radical as them.

I would suggest you read the first three volumes of Bukhari's hadith and "Reliance of the Traveller."   I think you would change your mind.   I get weekly death threats from some of those moderate ones you speak of from interfacing with them on the web.   I agree with the president of Turkey when he says there are no moderate Muslims.

[RdJ]

1 minute ago, other one said:

I would suggest you read the first three volumes of Bukhari's hadith and "Reliance of the Traveller."   I think you would change your mind.   I get weekly death threats from some of those moderate ones you speak of from interfacing with them on the web.   I agree with the president of Turkey when he says there are no moderate Muslims.

I wondered what ex muslims say about it here, so I Googled it. It's worse than I thought. They get death threats, but one keeps evangelising to moslims and sees whole families getting saved.

 

But I also read this:

The number of ex-Muslims, as those who left Islam are mainly referred to, is growing in our country. In the official figures, for example those from Statistics Netherlands, the percentage of Muslims in the Netherlands is still estimated to be quite high, but other studies indicate that, in addition to a growing religious trend among young Muslims, there is also a growing group that is less religious than the parents. When looking at actually practicing Muslims, the estimated number is much lower, as emerged, for example, from research by the Institute for Integration and Social Resilience, which estimated the number of practicing Muslims in the Netherlands at approximately 200,000 in 2008.

 

 

 

[Neighbor]

12 hours ago, Renskedejonge said:

The major of the city is muslim. It goes swell here.

Do you have  a "sub culture" living  under shariah law there yet? Has there been any renouncing of Shariah law there? I guess that is kinda off topic, maybe  you can start a thread on how well it is working out at your city? It will be interesting and enlightening  to read about.

[FJK]

17 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I can only ask; Is the goal to wipe out every member of Hamas or to defeat Hamas?

For one, Hamas is not a specific religious, ethnic, or similar group, it is an enemy terrorist organization that openly states its purpose is to remove Israel from existence (which does qualify as both an ethnic and religious group) and worldwide as well) and all Jews worldwide as wekk which actually is genocide by every standard that the UN has set fr the word.

For two, Hamas has been offered surrender terms, surrender with quarter given, which removes the idea of genocide being conducted by Israel since genocide does not offer the option of the enemy surrendering and being allowed to live as well.

Read the Hamas charter, both the original and the one that was toned down a little to gain wider world support (you can find them posted online),, they both state the same goals of genocide against Israel and the Jews without reserve as we say practiced on Oct.7th of last year.

[TheBlade]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:33 AM, Starise said:

Not much discussion here on them or if there is, they are all seen as an enemy.

What are your thoughts on those innocent caught in this war and forced to relocate? Is the feeling "oh well"?

Do you see them all as the enemy? 

Personally I can't see it that way.

Depends on what you mean by "enemy" Well if I live in Israel then yes they are the enemy because Israel over all is not for Christ so if your against Israel you are their enemy.  "Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him. If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you."

Then I notice you said the word "all" twice :) Now were just playing with speculation for I can not know all. Based on what I know and have  heard from some by their own mouth. They do not believe in Yeshua the messiah. So they are enemys of GOD as is anyone that rejects Him. Yet He loved the world so much