Eternal Salvation Is Free; Ruling With Christ Is Earned

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

 

2. God promised Abraham the Land and then in the same breath said he would die without gaining the Land. Abraham knew that he would only receive the Land in resurrection.

 

Just a point there Ad Hoc,

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

....And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 9 & 10,  15 & 16)

[Mr. M]

6 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Just a point there Ad Hoc,

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

....And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 9 & 10,  15 & 16)

Abram not only lived in the land as a stranger,

he claimed it.

Genesis 13:

14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him:

Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—

northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 

15 for all the land which you see I give to you

and your descendants forever. 

16 And I will make your descendants as the dust

of the earth; so that if a man could number

the dust of the earth, then your descendants also

could be numbered. 

17 Arise, walk in the land through its length

and its width, for I give it to you.

Edited March 22, 2024 by Mr. M

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

The kingdom of heaven vs. the kingdom of God is a thought-provoking subject, and I continue to study it, time permitting. As @AdHoc has mentioned in other threads, a kingdom requires a king, a time, subjects, and a place or sphere of authority.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (Matthew 11:12)

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

In short, John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus and the kingdom of heaven. For a short time, the Lord Himself was preaching the kingdom of heaven, but then he abruptly switched to the kingdom of God. Had the Jews accepted their Messiah, the kingdom of heaven would have arrived on Palm Sunday when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, as OT scripture prophesized.

The place of the kingdom of heaven appears restricted to the earth; the King is King Jesus, and the subjects of the time were the Jews only, and the place was Israel. The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God do not appear synonymous or interchangeable thus far. I see it as the kingdom of God, which is obtained through salvation, faith, and repentance, as opposed to entrance to the kingdom of heaven as a reward. The first offer of the kingdom of heaven was taken by violence, and our Lord was crucified.

With a premillennialist view, I believe the millennium will be the kingdom of heaven, a righteous government established, with Jesus as King. After the one-thousand-year reign of Christ, this will happen:

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. (Hebrews 2:8) [At this point, the kingdom of heaven will be handed to the Father, the kingdom of God.]

However, there is much I do not understand. The kingdom of heaven is used 41 times in the Bible. Matthew exclusively uses the term kingdom of heaven in the NT and Daniel in the OT. Daniel's use varies from the time of his day to the prophetic yet future kingdom of heaven.

The kingdom of God is in 69 Biblical passages; Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul all refer to it. This leads to obvious questions:

• Why is Matthew exclusive to using the kingdom of heaven? Why do Mark, Luke, John, and Paul not mention the kingdom of heaven? Unless it is synonymous with the kingdom of God and used interchangeably.
• If the kingdom of heaven is a reward and earned, and some genuinely born-again believers are shut out of the kingdom, where are they residing?
• If they are shut out of the kingdom of heaven, for how long, the millennium or eternity?

Those with true faith who accepted Jesus by faith alone are promised an inheritance (Acts 26:18; Eph. 1:11; Eph. 1:14; Col. 1:12; Col. 3;24). We were created from the earth (dust-clay) and made to physically occupy the world (not other planets or the spiritual realm). Our eternal home is on a newly refurbished earth, with the new Jerusalem as our everlasting abode.

It is much too long to delve into, but the parable (or analogy) of the Ten Virgins of Matthew 25 gives us some insight. The main subject in verse one is the kingdom of heaven, the bridesmaids are guests, attendees to the bride, non-participants in the marriage. All ten are virgins, half being fools. I believe the ten virgins represent the Jews. I’ll let it go with that.

Hi Dennis,

well said. I agree with most of it. Glad you also see the difference between the two. 

The `kingdom of heaven,` was foretold in the prophecy of Daniel.

`And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed;...` (Dan. 2: 44)

Jesus shortened it to `the kingdom of heaven.`  Meaning that the God of heaven will set up His rulership in Israel over the nations. And we know from God`s word that is in the millennium.

So the phrase `the kingdom (rule) of heaven, (God) ` is for Israel that is why it is only in the book of Matthew which concerns the Kingship of Christ. It is the rulership promise only to Israel not the Gentiles.

When the other gospels speak of the kingdom of God, it is because those gospels were written with the Romans & other Gentiles in mind. The kingdom (rule) of God is His rulership over them while the kingdom (rule) of heaven, is God`s rulership through Israel as promised. 

[Marilyn C]

4 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Abram not only lived in the land as a stranger,

he claimed it.

Genesis 13:

14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him:

Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—

northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 

15 for all the land which you see I give to you

and your descendants forever. 

16 And I will make your descendants as the dust

of the earth; so that if a man could number

the dust of the earth, then your descendants also

could be numbered. 

17 Arise, walk in the land through its length

and its width, for I give it to you.

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

How is repeating what you already wrote

a response to what I quoted and posted,

as to elaborate on his time in the land.

Do you find the Lord's instructions

invalidated by Hebrews 11?

Were Abrams actions in obedience

to those instructions a part of the process?

Your response suggests that I missed something.

[Mr. M]

13 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Matthew 8:

10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 

11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

@Vine Abider

@Dennis1209@Sower@Marilyn C@NConly@Jedi4Yahweh@D. Adrien@Wayne222@RdJ@Tristen

Jesus is the Seed of Abraham, Israel is the seed of Abraham, and the Church is th seed of Abraham (Gal.3:29).

The Church is OF the seed of Abraham which is CHRIST. 

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

From Enoch through Jude to John the Apostle, they all predict that Christ will return to earth. In Matthew 25:31-32 Christ's throne of glory is set up on earth since He judges "ALL NATIONS" from it. The New Jerusalem, a heavenly wonder and sign, comes from heaven to earth and "The NATIONS" who are approved at the Gates may go in. No Nations go to heaven. New Jerusalem must be on earth. New Jerusalem is the Tabernacle of God.

 

 

 

Yes, Jesus does return to the earth however, His seat of Power and authority is - `far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 21)

The new Jerusalem will not come to earth but be in the Universal realm, where all nations can walk in its light as the earth revolves. (Rev. 21: 24)

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

2. The government of Israel after Christ's return is by Jesus Himself. To Israel He is "Emmanuel" - God WITH us. Second in command is David (Jer.30:9). David wrote profusely about Jesus in the Psalms. He must be a BELIEVER. To be in the Kingdom he must be born again. That is, David is a Christian. In Matthew 19:28 the Lord promises the 11 apostles that they would rule over Israel from thrones. The 11 plus Matthias, who was chosen by lot before Pentecost (Act.1) will rule Israel. According to the Jewish prophets Israel will "SERVE" but not rule (Lk.1:67-79).

 

God will be with those on the earth by His Holy Spirit. God is never visible -

`Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever Amen.` (1 Tim. 1: 17)

King David is certainly not a Christian. He is a righteous saint, and one who awaits his inheritance in the heavenly city. He is in the General Assembly in the third heaven at the moment till the city comes down in the new heavens and new earth.

`And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets...`

But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 32, 16)

`To the General Assembly and the church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just (righteous) men made perfect. ` (Heb. 12: 23)

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

3. According to the parables which pertain to the Kingdom of Heaven, plus direct scriptures like 1st Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5, the unrighteous will NOT inherit the kingdom. These parables are addressed to the Believers, and te Corinthians, Galatians and Ephesians where members of their respective Churches - CHRISTIANS. Furthermore, in Matthew 24 the good servant who became evil in God's House, though chastised, is still called a "servant of His Lord". Furthermore, the men and women of Matthew 7:21-23 must be Christians because only Christians can cast out demons (Mk.16:17). Their sin was not casting out demons, but doing it without God's orders.

There is sufficient proofs to fill a page - or even a book. But these above have to be dealt with because no scripture contradicts any other. That is, before any scripture can be brought, these must be shown to be untrue.

Those before Christ ascended and began to build His Body are called the `just or righteous saints.` They were made perfect because of their faith in what God promised them. 

`These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.` (Heb. 11: 13)

The parables are all addressed to the people of Israel.

`Now I say that Jesus Christ became a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers. ` (Rom. 15: 8)

[Marilyn C]

14 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Matthew 8:

10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 

11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 

12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

[Marilyn C]

16 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

How is repeating what you already wrote

a response to what I quoted and posted,

as to elaborate on his time in the land.

Do you find the Lord's instructions

invalidated by Hebrews 11?

Were Abrams actions in obedience

to those instructions a part of the process?

Your response suggests that I missed something.

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

This shows that Abraham did indeed dwell in the land of promise, but it was NOT his final home which will be the city which God built.

[AdHoc]

2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Just a point there Ad Hoc,

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

....And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 9 & 10,  15 & 16)

Well... It's always AMEN from me when you quote scripture. But I didn't get your point. However, at the risk of having missed the point i would like to comment on your verses.

Abraham never inherited the Land. he dwelt in it but was a sojourner. Six generations of Abraham also did not get the Land. Joshua's generation died in the wilderness, but the next one gained it. In less than 1,000 years Israel was ejected from the Land and it remained under foreign rule and/or desolate until today. The present State of Israel is subject to the whims of foreign nations. The House of David is in ruins.

Verse 15 above reminds us that though this state of affairs reigned in the time of the fathers of Israel, Abraham and company did not return to their original Lands. Nor did Moses return to Egypt. The word "heavenly" can mean two things.
(I) It is IN heaven, or (II) it had its origin in heaven and bears the nature of heaven.

I judge that the second one is meant. God Promised Abraham a LAND with BORDERS - one that he could stand on a vantage point and see till the horizon. This is further proven by the presence and ownership of the cursed Canaanites. It is further proven by the fact that Abraham was a "sojourner". If, at some point in time, a King came from Heaven and instituted a set of governing rules for people who lived in this Land, the Land would have the flavor of heaven.

Verse 16 presents us with a City made in heaven. This city cannot be physical Jerusalem because it is already standing and occupied when the heavenly King comes from th clouds and His feet touch Mount Olives. And it will have been the Citadel of a man from the Abyss who went to perdition. The "heavenly City" must be defined by one that had its ORIGIN and Nature in heaven. And scripture presents us this City FOUR times. It is presented as a MOTHER three times, and a TREE once.
1. In Galatians 4:26 it is declared to be MOTHER of "us all". The context is the seed of Isaac to whom the PROMISE was made. The Promise was the LAND and BOTH Israelite AND Believer are seed of Isaac (Rom.9:3-4, Gal.3:29) - one by the flesh and one by the Spirit. In both cases the God of Heaven intervened in a woman's womb.

2. In Romans 11 is an Olive Tree. A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom (see Judges 9 etc.). The Tree is made of a Root/Stem which is holy and two types of branches- (i) Natural and (ii) Wild. The King is Christ and His nature decides the the nature of the Tree - heavenly. The Two peoples of Galatians 4:26 are the branches and just as the gold of the Temple is made by the Temple, the Root of the Tree makes the Tree Heavenly. The Olive Tree is the sum of the Kingdom of Heaven, BUT INCOMPLETE In this age it does not have Israel - and in the millennium it will be missing those Christians who are cast out of the Kingdom OF HEAVEN.

3. In Revelation 12 is a MOTHER. She has THREE SEEDS. (i) The Man-Child, (ii) Those who keep the commandments of God, and (iii) Those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The term "Commandments of God" is exclusively used in the Old Testament to describe the Law of Moses, making one of the seeds the Jewish Remnant of Romans 9 and 11. Those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ" can only be Believers. Thus, we have AGAIN a HEAVENLY MOTHER of both Believer and Israelite. Her crown is CELESTIAL - heavenly and makes her a KINGDOM. She is New Jerusalem during the Great Tribulation.

4. The City of Revelation 21 is a WIFE. She is from HEAVEN and the City has the glory of God - Heavenly or CELESTIAL She is made of Believers (Walls) and Israel (Gates) - the same two of Galatians 4:26 and Romans 11

Now, it is clear that New Jerusalem is not complete until after the Millennium. But those who are part of it enjoy the full privileges. The Book of Hebrews presents REWARD and LOSS for staying with Christ through tribulation or returning to Moses for EARTHLY rewards. The City in Hebrews 11 is the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and is made of those OF FAITH. Israel will not rule, but will be the LAND of the great King, and The BELIEVERS who lived by faith will bring heavenly rule to earth.

The student of Hebrews 11 must decide whether the Heavenly City is literal or a Picture. The Beast will have occupied Jerusalem for 7 years just prior to Christ's arrival. It will have been constructed over 1,500 years of foreign occupation. It's foundations are the ruins of God's judgment. Jesus will bring heavenly nature and flavor to Jerusalem and the whole earth and the men and women of faith RECEIVE THEIR INHERITANCE from the COVENANT OF PROMISE. A Land and City subject to heavenly rule.