Unscriptural Hymnals In Worship

[poorinspirit]

WOW!! I don't know how fast you can answer post, but I'm trying! A guy has to eat sometime!

Always best in Worthy to bring your sandwich with you when you log in

[angels4u]

Please answer....

Do you know that you are downgrading the Holy Spirit? He's just as important as God and Jesus, the Holy Spirit is God.

Do you know who the Holy Spirit is and what He does in our lives?

I'm still interested to know which church you go, not to judge you but so I understand where you learned what you preach.

[poorinspirit]

Hi Redefine_Me Again!!!

My bad, here. I was not clear in my post. By "verses", I meant the verses you quoted from Matthew, John, and Luke. Not the verses in the hymns.

How about I just leave you with one then? Note how the Son will judge.

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

That latter part of verse 23. Is that not like saying... when we cease to honor the Son, we are not honoring the Father? And if the indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to glorify Jesus... does it not tie in the importancy of how believers will be judged?

Something to pray for discernment about. May He cause the increase.

[poorinspirit]

yes.. the Holy Spirit is God and part of the Godhead, but each has its role defined in scriptures... so that all invitations continues to point to Jesus and not to seducing spirits that would steal the show in the worship place.

OK, of all the things I have heard on this Board...

I never thought I'd hear the Holy Spirit accused of being an idol.

I have to agree Neb..................

Hi Scarletprayers!!!

Hopefully my post to her has cleared that up for you as well.

Pray for discernment.

[angels4u]

poorinspirit,

I quess, you are either a Mormon or Jehova Witness, they are both decieving cults and they will lead you astray from the truth, please open your heart to the Holy Spirit and He shall teach you the truth.

You problaly noticed that you are alone in what you believe and try to teach , your teaching is of the Antichrist because you are downgrading the Holy Spirit who is God.

[damo1]

from damo1

high poor in spirit if i am hearing you right you are ignoring what i said to you in the post i left you and you are saying i shoud decline from what i belive in and how i see for my self who the holy spirit and you are praying that i repent of the way i have been bought up wel then how is some one like me going to convice those who i want to reach out to that jesus died for them ?

i find what you have said in one of the posts a little bit offensive my brother and if you are praying that god wil change the way i see things and ignore the holy spirit all together boy you have a long way to go my friend as it seems you only preach what you feel is right with you and ignore everything else that is calling the kettle dont you think my brother

why are you so against the holy spirit poopr in spirit you seem to have been hurt very bad from what i am picking up in your writtings any way poor in spirit thank you so much for your intresting post hear i might have to call my pastor up and sevral others and repent of this hole idea that the holy spirit is hear to guide me please poor in spirit if by what you said is meant for me than why dont you just state this i also love you as a brother but i do not pull you down for what you hold so close to

you can not have it both ways poor in spirit you seem to take only what you want to hear if i am right to say you dont belong to no church or do you be long to a church wear you are submissive to your pastor and to your leaders as if one is buy him self and only reading what he wants to hear how then can the one living by him self grow and learn to form healthy relationships with his brothers and sisters in the lord i have friends in the salvation army the cathlic church even seven day adventists the church of christ the anglican church and even the unitting church we all get on very wel with each other and walk in unity with each other and share and pray with each other sometimes i even go to the seven day adventist church on a saturday and to my church on a sunday this is how acceptable i am to my brothers and sisters in christ and i even go to mas on a thursday morning at the cathlic church i am very charasmatic or i should say apostolic and not once have i looked down on my other brothers and sisters i even pray with two spirit filled cathlic nuns poor in spirit

i love you but please stop praying that i recant from what i hold on to the holy spirit is a real person

[poorinspirit]

Please answer....

Do you know that you are downgrading the Holy Spirit? He's just as important as God and Jesus, the Holy Spirit is God.

Do you know who the Holy Spirit is and what He does in our lives?

I'm still interested to know which church you go, not to judge you but so I understand where you learned what you preach.

Hi angels4u

Nope. That is not downgrading the Holy Spirit when scriptures are used to define the roles of the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ.

Let's turn this around. What ABOUT Jesus? Is the Holy Spirit the mediator? Nope. Is Jesus? Yes.

1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

So if a person prays to the Holy Spirit, what does that do to Jesus? Downplaying Him as the mediator.

Is that honoring Jesus as the only mediator between God and man when someone prays to the Holy Ghost? Nope.

Is the Holy Ghost the Head of the Church? Nope. But the way people talk about Him, you would think He is running the show.

Ephesians 1: 17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Ephesians 5: 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Colossians 1: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Will the Holy Spirit speak of Himself? Nope. Why not? Same reason why a man cannot speak of himself to seek his own glory if he is going to bear witness of Jesus.

John 7: 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

So in the next verse, we see how the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself so as to glorify Jesus Christ as the Divine Witness.

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Now how can we do that if we glorify the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit in us is not speaking of Himself nor seeking to glorify Himself but Jesus Christ the Lord? Note the next verse...

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

If the Holy Ghost hears in verse 13 and speaks that.. then would that not imply the Holy Spirit is speaking expressly of the words of Jesus, Our Good Shepherd? Would not the gifts and the fruits of the Spirit all come from Jesus?

Philippians 1: 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

The Holy Spirit is God, but to place the importance of the Holy Spirit to supercede Jesus Christ is NOT what the Holy Spirit is doing, therefore the Holy Spirit would never be in the spotlight with Jesus Christ when the indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to put THAT spotlight on Jesus Christ. Why?

Philippians 2: 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So if all three Persons of the Godhead is to be given equal consideration, how can that be if Jesus' name is to be above every other name? The only way God the Father is glorified is through the Son. If we go the route of the Jehovah Witnesses... then Jehovah's name should be above Jesus' name, but yet it is not so. If we say the Holy Spirit's name is aboe his name or equal to Jesus in the realm of glory, then the Holy Spirit failed as the Divine Witness, but I know He will not fail for He is God.. it is the believers that are getting distracted... departing from the faith in going after more of the Holy Spirit when He is in us as promised for all those that come to Jesus. People going after the Holy Spirit are downgrading Him by implying He is not fulfilling the role of the Comforter by never leaving us.

So we either discern by using His Words or we stick with the pretty songs that honor not the Lord Jesus Christ because that is what has always been done so it can't be wrong... like catholicism.

[Mutzrein]

Jesus said, "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

You make some good points poorinspirit

Fascinating how these folks could think you are JW / Mormon / Antichrist etc.

[Guest shiloh357]

Poorinspirit,

I hear where you are coming from, but if I might and please bear with me for a moment, I would like to highlight some of the things the Holy Spirit is and does:

• The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, fully divine.
  
• He inspired holy men of old to write the Scriptures.
  
• Through illumination, He enables men to understand truth.
  
• He exalts Christ.
  
• He convicts men of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. He calls men to the Saviour, and effects regeneration.
  
• At the moment of regeneration He baptizes every believer into the Body of Christ.
  
• He cultivates Christian character, comforts believers, and bestows the spiritual gifts by which they serve God through His church.
  
• He seals the believer unto the day of final redemption.
  
• His presence in the Christian is the guarantee that God will bring the believer into the fullness of the stature of Christ.
  
• He enlightens and empowers the believer and the church in worship, evangelism, and service.
  

(Source: Baptist Faith and Message)

The above list is not meant to be exhaustive, but provides a relatively good understanding of the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer.

Many Hymns are written to acknowledge the work of the Holy Spirit in these areas. The hymns you listed are simply songs of surrender and supplication asking for Holy Spirit who is God, to continue the work He has begun.

I would also point out that there is no directive in the Word of God NOT to pray to, or speak to the Holy Spirit. Also, keep in mind that the Holy Spirit can be communded with. How would one commune/fellowship with the Holy Spirit outside of prayer?

Poorinspirit, you said the following:

What ABOUT Jesus? Is the Holy Spirit the mediator? Nope. Is Jesus? Yes.

1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

So if a person prays to the Holy Spirit, what does that do to Jesus? Downplaying Him as the mediator.

Is that honoring Jesus as the only mediator between God and man when someone prays to the Holy Ghost? Nope.

None of the hymns that you cited offer prayer to the Holy Spirit as a mediator. Jesus is our mediator/High Priest who makes intercession for our sake before the Father. None of the hymns you cited ask the Holy Spirit for forgiveness of sin.

The items concerning the role of the Holy Spirit have one thing in common. They enable and equip us to glorify God. The Holy Spirit imparts power to us through various means in order that we can effective in lifting up and glorifying our Heavenly Father and, therefore, it would be fitting that we ask the Holy Spirit to continue that work within us, which is what I see in those hymns.

Is the Holy Ghost the Head of the Church? Nope. But the way people talk about Him, you would think He is running the show.

I am not seeing that in the hymns you cited for reasons just stated.

[Fraught]

p.s. my church still has hymnals

Oh, in fairness, I should say that the hymnals are not used during the main 2 services which are pretty contemporary. But we do still have a more traditional service where hymnals are actually touched and opened

that's cool - i feel sorry for the ones over in the corner of my church gathering dust. but really, who can sing most of those except a professional singer? i guess i'm glad they're not used - i would be too busy trying to carry the tune to concentrate on worshiping God.

p.s. oops i went too far off topic. please accept my apologies, poorinspirit. too late to delete - i got trigger-happy (er, enter button happy)!