The Great Whore of the Revelation (chp 18)

[AnotherTraveler]

Another Traveler wrote:

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Rev 17:16 (KJV)

The ten horns of the beast HATE the whore, make her desolate, eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Rev 17:12-13 (KJV)

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rev 17:14 (KJV)

The ten kings hate the whore and they also make war with the Lamb.

So, I think that the ten kings are muslim arab kingdoms (nations), the false prophet is the coming false muslim prophet, they hate the whore which seams to include the Catholic church but might be of a broader application, and the fall of corrupt religious, political, military, and economic authority will cause the diminishing of the control of the world wide web to fall into the hands of the beast. All Christian-like manifestations will be attacked and the "whore" aspect will be destroyed by the beast. The Lamb will overcome them though.

So there are three main players, and they are each different one from the other. The false prophet (a living being), the beast (a living being), and the whore (likely a system of religious evil). Also there is the image of the beast, another system that controls the economy, demands worship, and forces all to take the make of the beast.

I don't know if I am understanding you right, so I guess I need to ask for clarification. Are you saying you think the ten kings is the whore of Revelation 18?

The reason I asked is because I do not think it is possible and I will tell you why. The beast, or the ten kings or the antichrist system destroys the whore.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. KJV

The ten kings are probably Muslim kingdoms (nations). They hate the whore, they make her desolate, naked, eat her flesh, and burn her with fire, so no, they certainly are not the whore.

Again, non-sequiter argument. It doesn't follow that John is writing about Islam.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Non-sequiter

non sequitur (nahn sek [as in heck]-kwit-her) n. Latin for "it does not follow." The term usually means that a conclusion does not logically follow from the facts or law, stated: "That's a non sequitur."

While you may disagree with my point, and I did not go into the long, drawn out version of how the Crusades pitched Catholics against Muslims over the Holy Lands, or how that the Catholics and Muslims have built "holy places" in Jesusalem on top of the historical Jewish city, it still follows that since they have waged war against one another before today over the Jerusalem question, it is possible that the Muslims might again take to using a violent method to express that they hate anyone that is not Muslim, and it does follow that if the Whore is at least partly the Catholic church, that the historical enemy might eventually overcome them.

So while you disagree, it is my opinion that it does indeed follow, and I can say it in English.

[HeatherEljohari]

Cant we all just love eachother without all the judgements and arguments?????????????? Forgive thos people and pray God grants them wisdom and lienency for there actions which have harmed others.

God bless~

Heatherxoxoxo

[AnotherTraveler]

Cant we all just love eachother without all the judgements and arguments?????????????? Forgive thos people and pray God grants them wisdom and lienency for there actions which have harmed others.

God bless~

Heatherxoxoxo

Heather, the question here is relating to The Great Whore of revelations, and the discussion is relating to who this represents or who that represents, and the Muslims or Catholics or (fill in the blank) are being referrred to in an effort to discuss what the prophecy of Revelations is referring to. As to the "let's all just love each other", please understand that when evil actions are not rebuked for the evil that they are, then they grow in boldness and push out into new areas of evil.

In our day, not all Muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are Muslims, and the so called moderates and peace loving muslims are almost universally silent as the terrorist "minority" murder with cowardly bombings all over the world. Someone must denounce the evil being done, and the "peaceful" Muslim should certainly speak out against those that do murder in the name of all Muslims.

[damo1]

damo1

by reading this i am finding it very intresting to say yet i feel that the great whore of revelations 18 is talking about all the false teachers all the false prophets who lead gods people astray

i am sorry that one poster feels muslims are being picked on hear but the bible speaks for its self weather we say we know some peace full muslims i am getting to know a muslim family my self and i have been praying for the british school teacher who is in big troubal in sudan as i was praying on saturday night for the british school teacher and for the two muslim lord that have flown over on a mercy trip to plan to meet with the president and try to come to some agreement wear she is free and home with her family

i was led to read revelations 20 verse 15

if anyones name was not found written in the book of life he was thrown into the lake of fire

i was also told to look at it this way look at the world map you have mark out every single country you know wear muslims live and those you know who follow what the koran has to say then i was told to think not just of the men who belive in the koran but the innocent wives the innocent children as their kids are bought up to belive in everything the koran says

as i was praying i heard this inner voice saying these people have been manipulated and this man has condemned them to death i began to cry as i heard this inner voice say these people need to hear the truth but no matter who i send they wil be killed just like they killed the prophets i sent in the old testoment

i was led to this very verse revelations 18 verse 24

in her was found the blood of the prophets and of the saints and of all who have been killed on the earth

then i also rememberd what the cathlic church had done and how it had tryied to sweep its hidden sins under the carpet you have the great inquasition the salom witch trials the sins that have come to the surface know with the parish priests being cought for having sexual relationships with young boys not just the cathlic church but also from with in the body its self many have fallen to this and wear they thought it would not come to the surface god thought diffrent

i feel revelations 18 is not to be ignored all together as god has given us a responsabilty

and that responsability is to look after his sheep feed his sheep and not violate his sheep like they have been violated by the many false wolves and false teachers and false pastors that are among us know and living in our comunitys

to put the blame on two certain groups is very foolish as if we are going to just say revelations 18 is for these two groups the cathlic church and the muslims who follow mohammad we might as wel take a deep breath and also say in honesty it is also for the body of christ

no one wil escape no one wil say it was his fault just like mohammad has condemned his people to death how many do we know have been condemned to death by mans doctrine ?

i also denouced everything i belived as an orthadox croation cathlic

this is my take on revelations 18 in an honest approach with out agreeing with every one else

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes my husband is, and hes a individual, not everyone is the same, u must remember there are some evil and cruel Christians out there as well. Also if you look in the bible hun, Old testament, They use to stone people to death.

You cannot compare stoning, which was a means of capital punishment with the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians in various societies for the purpose of advanacing a political agenda.

There were also laws, very extreme laws on how to handle sinful people.

Yes, but they

Than Jesus came along, with new ways on how to deal with our sistersa and brothers. I remember one part, cant remember exactly where but they were getting ready to stone a woman for her sinful nature... and Jesus said go ahead stone her the one which is not guilty of ONE sin... which meant we are all guilty, therefore a human cant condemn another.

Well no, that is not what that story means. The woman caught in adultery was being used by Jesus' enemies to catch Him in a no-win situation. If Jesus agreed to have the woman stoned, they would have accused Him before the Roman govenor of putting someone to death without Rome's permission. If Jesus disagreed with the Law of Moses and did not agree to that she should be stoned, they could present Him as a false teacher who did not live according to the Law of Moses. The story gives the impression that while not entirely innocent, the woman was being used by Jesus' enemies for their own purposes and not because there was any geniuine outrage concerning her actions on their part.

Also- we are here critisizing and condemning another culture and religious belief system.... Even IF that religion is damned, WHO are WE to decide on that, remember humble yourself before the King....

WE don't decide on that. The Bible tells us what is right and wrong and when we set Islam up against the light of Scripture, it is condemned, not by us, but by the very moral standard outlined in Scripture.

I also dont think Jesus would want anyone thinking evil or mean thoughts about another. If you dont like muslim people, or actions they do ... Doesnt Jesus speak about forgiveness????? for it is not our place to judge, "lest ye be judged."

That is not what the Bible teaches. We are absolutely free to judge what God has already judged. One only need to look at the nations where Islam is the majority religion to how godless, demonic, pagan, intolerant, unforgiving, barbaric and bloodthirsty of an ideology it really is. A world without Islam would be a better world.

Forgive your energy, "70x7" isnt this correct?

Yeah, but there are two sides to that. Jesus said that when someone sins against you, but comes to you AND ASKS for your forgiveness, you are to not to withhold forgiveness. This is not just some one-sided situation where you can trample me all day long, but I have to be a doormat and "forgive" while continue to hurt me repeatedly. Forgiveness is a two-way street.

[Guest shiloh357]

I dont know, Im married to a muslim. I have seen alot of feelings about this religion, as ppl feel its violent etc. But- from my husband I know this isnt so, at least with him. Hes peace loving, he likes to help other people, they help the needy. They pray to God 5x a day, he doesnt spoke, drink, gamble all coz he feels its against God, and he doesnt want to do anything to offend him. He is very God fearing. They believe in all the prophets, Moses, Abraham, to Job leading too Jesus Christ. The seperation of the religion is they dont believe hes son of God, but a aspect of God like other prophets, also they feel the bible was doctured by the churches/people in history. Which people out of Islam question due to the churches hand in the holy scripture. Also alot of what the Old testament is based on is what the religion of Islam is based on .. and it isnt just a religion of passitivty, but activity. He does everything he feels God wants him to do. People think Islam is very violent in nature... which it can be when people take the religion to extremes, like any culture or religious background. But- If we look at the Old Testament books there was ALOT of violence, and God defended his choosen ones, because they were doing Gods will getting rid of the wickedness. I mean its easy to Judge another culture, when you dont understand it.. This is just a little insight.

Love-

Heatherxoxox

Isn't it strange that people will call others antisemetic and then talk awful and hateful about moslems? Arabs are semetic too.

"Muslim" does not equal "Arab." Condemning the religion of Islam and its adherents does not mean that a person hates Arabs or any other ethnicity that happens to be Islamic. It their actions and the ideology of Islam.

Secondly Arabs are not Semitic. Arabs and Jews do not come both come from Abraham. Accoriding to Genesis 10, the Arab people were already in existance prior to the birth of Ishmael. The Arabs are the descendents of Ham not Shem and are therefore, not semitic.

[sweetycakes]

I dont know, Im married to a muslim. I have seen alot of feelings about this religion, as ppl feel its violent etc. But- from my husband I know this isnt so, at least with him. Hes peace loving, he likes to help other people, they help the needy. They pray to God 5x a day, he doesnt spoke, drink, gamble all coz he feels its against God, and he doesnt want to do anything to offend him. He is very God fearing. They believe in all the prophets, Moses, Abraham, to Job leading too Jesus Christ. The seperation of the religion is they dont believe hes son of God, but a aspect of God like other prophets, also they feel the bible was doctured by the churches/people in history. Which people out of Islam question due to the churches hand in the holy scripture. Also alot of what the Old testament is based on is what the religion of Islam is based on .. and it isnt just a religion of passitivty, but activity. He does everything he feels God wants him to do. People think Islam is very violent in nature... which it can be when people take the religion to extremes, like any culture or religious background. But- If we look at the Old Testament books there was ALOT of violence, and God defended his choosen ones, because they were doing Gods will getting rid of the wickedness. I mean its easy to Judge another culture, when you dont understand it.. This is just a little insight.

Love-

Heatherxoxox

Isn't it strange that people will call others antisemetic and then talk awful and hateful about moslems? Arabs are semetic too.

"Muslim" does not equal "Arab." Condemning the religion of Islam and its adherents does not mean that a person hates Arabs or any other ethnicity that happens to be Islamic. It their actions and the ideology of Islam.

Secondly Arabs are not Semitic. Arabs and Jews do not come both come from Abraham. Accoriding to Genesis 10, the Arab people were already in existance prior to the birth of Ishmael. The Arabs are the descendents of Ham not Shem and are therefore, not semitic.

I would agree with Shiloh.

Certainly, not all muslims are violent. Probably not even the majority of them.

But they are wrong, in their beliefs.

I've known a great many muslims personally. One thing they all seem to share is their hatred of Israel, and the Jew's claim to the land of Israel.

And just because they are not violent, doesn't mean that their ideology should be respected, accepted or promoted.

Just like most homosexuals are definitely non-violent.....but they and their lifestyles/beliefs are wrong.

Islam, as a belief system is wrong, and opposes Christ. (Fact)

Therefore, there is no defence for islam, in my opinion.

[Guest shiloh357]

The kings of the earth or the horns of the beast of Revelation 17:12, who the woman rules in Revelation 17:18, will turn on the woman and destroy her. Ezekiel, in chapter 16, and Jeremiah chapter 4, say the same thing about Jerusalem and Israel.

Ezekiel 16:1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Ezekiel 16:2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations

Ezekiel16:37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

Ezekiel 16:38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

Ezekiel 16:39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

Ezekiel 16:40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.

Ezekiel 16:41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.

Jeremiah 4:1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.

Jeremiah 4:30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.

Jeremiah 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Ezekiel 16 has nothing to do with identifying the whore of Revelation, and neither do the above passages in Jeremiah.

In both cases, they are dealing with past sins of Jerusalem which resulted in Israel being sent into captivity in Babylon. God accused Israel of playing the harlot prior to their captivity, but there is no logical or theological jump possible from Ezekiel 16 to Revelation 17, 18. The contexts are different and the subject matter is completely dissimilar. Ezekiel 16 is not an end-time prophecy and neither is Jeremiah 4. Jeremiah is calling on Jerusalem to repent in order that she can be restored.

There are no Old Testament prophets that give us any description of Jerusalem in the last days that bears any resemblance ot the whore of Revelation 17,18. There is no prophesied end time judgment of Jerusalem mentioned by the prophets that bear any resemblance to the judgment mentioned in Rev. 17, 18.

To make it appear that Jerusalem is the whore, you have to read that assumption into the text and cherry pick isolated verses while ignoring context and the principle of corroborative/Parallel Scripture support. If Jerusalem were the whore of Revelation, we would have ample witness to that by the prophets such as Daniel, Zechariah, Ezekiel, Isiaah. etc. Given the fact that no such support or corroboration exists, there is no way that one can in a competent, objective fashion, assert that the notion of Jerusalem being the whore of Revelation has any genuine merit worthy of serious consideration.

[kari21]

Remember even Hitler professed Christianity to the German people.

Only for show. This is what Hitler really believed about Christianity:

"The heaviest blow which ever struck humanity was Christianity; Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew."

- Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, trans., (Oxford, 1953), Hitler's Table-Talk, p. 7

"The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, by allowing the survival of the fittest. Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

- Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, trans., (Oxford, 1953), Hitler's Table-Talk, p. 51

"The Ten Commandments have lost their validity. Conscience is a Jewish invention, it is a blemish like circumcision."

- Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 220

Also in 'Hitler's table talk', Hitler refers to Christianity as an effeminate, Jewish invention (p. 49, 235). He trusts that the dogma of the Vicarious Suffering of Christ will give way to acceptance of the new Leader-legislator, who will liberate the faithful from the burden of free will (p. 225)

Hitler was no Christian.

[nebula]

I still do not understand how the description of Babylon in Rev. 17-19 could possibly fit with Jerusalem.

It sounds to me like a presupposition was made and then the sea captains and merchants of the earth were interpreted to mean something other than sea captains and merchants of the earth to fit the presupposition.

And why would all of Heaven rejoice at the fall of Jerusalem when it is Jerusalem to which the lord will come down to defend?