oneness vs trinity

[kross]

I asked this on another string but I can not find it.

What is the difference between trinitarian and Oneness?

[MightyIsTheLord]

Christians believe the Trinity that God is three persons in one. The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. (truth)

Muslims believe that God is one person. Allah. (big lie).

edit: sorry i misunderstood the terms.

Edited October 5, 2008 by MightyIsTheLord

[OneLight]

Oneness believes that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the very same entity, but is able to come to us in three different means.

Trinity believes that God is made of three specific entities, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but are 100% in perfect unity, in perfect accord.

So, yes, there are some Christians who believe in Oneness, but most believe in the Trinity, as far as I have been able to tell.

[Mudcat]

I asked this on another string but I can not find it.

What is the difference between trinitarian and Oneness?

This is what the Oneness believers believes.

#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.

#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.

#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So they teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.

#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.

Zeke,

Do you believe God can be all three at he same time.

If so, is that an uncommon state for God to be in?

[HAZARD]

Read John 1:1 and see what it says.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" and in John 1:14 it states;

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

The Word became flesh, not the Father.

Jesus was praying to HIS FATHER, and not to Himself. Jesus is a separate and distinct being, a member of the Godhead (Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9).

In eighty separate statements by Jesus Himself, He constantly affirmed that He was not the Father and not the only person in the Godhead. These passages will not permit us to believe in any one person as being referred to. Jesus is the speaker, but He is not the one spoken of. (Matt. 7:21; 10:32-33; 11:27; 15:13; 16:17; 18:10, 19, 35; 19:17; 20:23; 24:36; 25:34; 26:29, 39, 42, 53; Luke 2:49; John 5:17, 43; 6:32, 65; 8:19, 28, 38, 49, 54; 10:17-18, 25, 29, 30, 32, 37; 12:26-28; 14:7, 12, 20, 21, 28; 15:1, 8, 10, 4, 23; 16:23-26; 18:11; 20:17, 21; Rev. 1;1; 2:27; 3:5, 12; 5:1-7, 13; 7:9, 15-16; 10:6; 11:15; 12:10; 21:10; 21:22-23; 22:1-5.

Jesus said His Father "was greater than all" and "greater than I" (John 10:29; 14:28). He then could not be the Father. Paul also stated that the Father was "the head of Christ" (1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3). God the Father said of Jesus, "My beloved Son" (Matt. 3:16-17; 17:5; Ps. 2:7). Jesus said of Himself, "I am the Son of God" (John 10:38). Even demons said He was "the Son of God" (Mark 3:11) and the "Son of the Most High God" (Mark 5:7).

Jesus Christ existed in His Spirit body as the Word (John 1:1), throughout all eternity past, untill He divested Himself of His Spirit body and became a man.

As God He has always existed. But, as a man, in taking human form, flesh and blood, He had a beginning.

Scripture, show that Jesus Christ was one of the three divine persons of the Deity and that as God he had no beginning.

Mic. 5:2 states He existed from all eternity.

John states of Him as existing in the very beginning with the Father (John 1;1-5).

Jesus Himself said He was before Abraham, and before the World was created (John 8:58; 17:5, 24).

Paul states Christ as existing before all things and as the creator and upholder of all things (Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-3, 8; 2:10). God the Father created all things by Jesus (Eph. 3:9).

Divine names are ascribed to Him.

These divine names and titles proves that He is by nature divine and a member of the Godhead.

He is called God and Immanuel in (Matt. 1:23; John 1:1; 20:28 and Acts 20:28).

Christ the Lord (Luke 2:26); The Son of God (Matt. 4:3; 14:33; Luke 22:70; John 1:34; Rom. 1:4). He is called "MY SON" by the Father in (Matt. 3:17); The only begotten Son (John 1:18; 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9).

He is called the First and the Last. Alpha and Omega, The beginning and Ending (Rev. 22:12, 13, 16). The Lord (Acts9:17); The Son of the Highest (Luke 1:32; Mark 14:61).

The Holy Child Jesus (Acts 4:30); King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev. 19:16); Lord and Savious (2 Peter 3:2); and The Word Of God (Rev. 19:13), and many more such titles show He is a member of the Divine Godhead.

In Phil. 2:5-11 Paul speaks of Christ being in God's form and that He laid aside this form and limited His attributes and powers as God to become a man. These powers were given back to Him when He was exalted to the highest place with God, (Coll. 3:1; Mark 16:19), after His lowest humiliation and limitation before God-even to do nothing, say nothing, be nothing and depend entirely upon God the Father for needed grace for body, soul, and spirit, and make a sucess of the work the Father sent Him into the world to do (Phil 2:9-11; Eph. 1:21-23; Col. 1:15-24; 1 Pet. 3:22). We know He did not keep His powers and position whilst a man, else He could not have been exalted back to it.

If He had not laid aside all His Glory and power He could not have had it restored to Him as stated in John 17:5. If He had retained all His riches while on Earth He could not have become poor for our sakes as taught in 2 Cor. 8:9. If He had kept His divine form He could not have taken on human form as taught by Phil. 2:5-11.

His incarnation proves He was limited as a man and grew to manhood as we all do, and He developed normally as any other human child. All the traditional theories of Him making toy birds and animals of mud and breathing life into them so they became real creatures and ran and flew away, and the many other miraculous powers He allegedly had from birth are mere theories and traditions made up by suspicious pagans to make Him equal with their pagan gods. He was a normal man as we are, and He did no miraculous works untill He was anointed fully by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:16-17; John 2:11).

After Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit to the full, He then posessed all the gifts and Graces of the Holy Spirit to the full, and He demonstrated what being like God among men really is like and He encouraged one and all who aspire to this exalted position, of sons of God with Power (John 3:34; Acts 10:38).

He laid aside His natural and divine attributes, and their use, and became a perfect example of yieldedness to God and His Spirit to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil (Heb. 10:5-9; Acts 10:38).

Regarding His Humanity. Human names were ascribed to Him. Rabboni (John 20:16), Jesus (Matt. 1:21), Son of Abraham and David (Matt. 1:1), Seed and Offspring of David(Rom. 1:3; Rev. 5:5; 22:16). The second man and the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45-47). The King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2).

He was called a "BABE," a "CHILD," and a "MAN" (Luke 2:16; Isa. 9:6; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2L4-5; Rom. 5:12-21; John 8:40; Acts 2:22; 1 Cor. 15:21, 45-47).

It was prophecied that He would be born of a human mother (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; 9:6-7; 11:1; 53:1-12; Ps. 22).

And He had flesh and blood like all other men (John 1:14; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 4:1-6; Luke 24:39; John 19:34).

Jesus Christ, in His glorified flesh and bone body, now sits beside the Father in Heaven (Luke 24:39; John 20:27; Mark 16:19; Luke 22:69), for the Father, who is and did remain a Spirit being, is Spirit and has a Spirit body, and must be worshiped in Spirit and truth (John 4:24). Jesus is not now sitting beside Himself in Heaven, did not talk to Himself whilst on the Earth, and the Father also did not talk to Himself from Heaven when He supposedly was on earth as some believe, neither did He send Himself to the Earth and pray to Himself in Heaven, calling Himself my Father in Heaven while He was on Earth, and to say so is foolish.

[Hunterpoet]

Oneness believes that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the very same entity, but is able to come to us in three different means.

Trinity believes that God is made of three specific entities, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but are 100% in perfect unity, in perfect accord.

So, yes, there are some Christians who believe in Oneness, but most believe in the Trinity, as far as I have been able to tell.

I kinda like how you explain trinity.

[BlindSeeker]

Wow . . . D

[traveller]

Wow . . . D

[kross]

I guess I got the answer. We all agree that there are three as one. We just differ on what that means. Not much difference from what I can tell. Since both sides of the isle think of GOD as one GOD and still recognize the different rolls of each aspect of the one GOD.

Thanks

[larryt]

I believe that Jesus was God in the flesh while God remained the eternal Spirit in Heaven. I believe there is one God (The Father) who became a man (The Son) and is a Spirit (The Holy Spirit) not three people or persons or entities or beings ect....

Then how do you explain this verse...

Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him:

Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This is not hard to explain. When God assumed a human existence with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of His humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. God the Father said to the Man Jesus Christ the Son of God that He was well pleased in Him and the Spirit of the Father ''The Holy Spirit descended on The man Jesus Christ. I really do not understand why trinitarians find this so hard to grasp.

or this verse....

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:5-7)

This verse says exactly what I believe the 3 witnesses are 1 and the same, not that the 1 God is 3 persons.

Hi Zeke,

Just so I understand your point of view would you please clarify something for me. In your response you said the following:

God the Father said to the Man Jesus Christ the Son of God that He was well pleased in Him and the Spirit of the Father ''The Holy Spirit descended on The man Jesus Christ.

You emphasize that Jesus was "the Man" and I am wondering if you believe that Jesus was "Very God" even as the Father was Very God at this point of time, or do you believe that Jesus was just a man and received/became God/Godhood when the Spirit descended on Him.

The trinitarian point of view is that the Father is the Father because He has a relationship with the Son and they both have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. This relationship existed from eternity past. One cannot be a father without having a son.

Thank you.

LT