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I don't know if you see what you are doing, but this is what I'm getting from what you have written. You seem to want to be in charge of these people, but because we don't have that right, meaning, we are not God, we can't make pastors like those you are referring to see that their actions are harmful to God's flock; because some have wrong motivations anyway. God has already said there will be false prophets to deceived the people. We can't make people live a godly life if they don't want to, and if they are dealing with something in the church that has caused their bitterness; that is way beyond your ability to fix. We pray for them, offer support if they want support but we must be careful and try the spirits of people so that we don's become bitter too. We have an adversary, Satan, that opposes God and is responsible for these confusion and rejecting God's word. What you don't recognize is you are the one turning a blind eye to God's word, while watching these people. You are taking the pain of the situation and judging the word of God according to what you see in them, instead of seeing what the word of God is saying about the situation. We are only required to follow the Gospel. We are also responsible for serving God for the purpose of edifying the church, but it must be done according to how we are instructed to do so in the gospel. We don't take it upon ourselves to be lord over people because we see they are not following God's word! And what I said in my post is biblical, and if someone's pain and hurt causes them to not be able to accept God's word as it is written, or reject His word, then that's between that person and God. God knows how to save his own.

What's confusing about your post is you seem to be focused outside of yourself, and judging the sinful wrongs of the many false preachers and elders in these churches when the bible has provides us warnings about them, and deals with the very subject you are talking about. You are saying no more than what God has already said in, Matthew 7:15-20, Ezekiel 13:3, 1 John 4:1, Romans 16:8, Deuteronomy 18:20, Corinthians 11:13-15, just to name a few. It will be these false preachers, teachers, apostle, etc. who will assist with causing many to fall. They are causing many to fall away now. Micah 3:5 says, "Thus saith the Lord concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. And as for the people who stay under the false preachers, and false teachings, God says in Isaiah 30:9-13, "That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord: 10 Which say to the seers, See not and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: 11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel (Jesus) to cease form before us." There is nothing we can do about this situation because it has been already prophesied. However, God warns His people to come out from among them, not wonder about it. 2 Corinthians 6:17, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separated, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you." And 2 John 1:9-10 warns that "Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, received him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." When it comes to "us" examining ourselves, we are not to look at the behaviors of others before looking at ourselves. We have to be careful to not fall into Romans 2:21-22,, "Thou therefore that teaches another, do thou teach thyself? thou that preaches a man should not steal, does thou steal, Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, doest thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, doest thou commit sacrilege?" I pray to God Almighty that we follow the gospel and not be persuaded to follow falsehood based on our own arrogance and pride. One scripture that is really important to understand is 2 Peter 3:16 which says, "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." This scripture should cause us all to pray to God, regularly, for discernment of the gospel of Christ! Just to clarify, my post was written to address a Christian suffering, which the bible addresses as trials that we go through. And while going through these trials, we are not to think God is punishing us because of a sinful behavior, because our sins have been forgiven through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross who shed His blood for us. But we are to understand the trials are to address our sinful nature. God needs to change us to be like Christ, to be holy before Him, Hebrews 9:14, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 1:9, Titus 3:5, Titus 2:14. There are many more scriptures that explain this process. It's the sanctification process that we go through, 1 Timothy 2:21, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." These are not just words. This is a real process that we go through ordained by God, and it's not a walk in the park. The definition for sanctification means: to make holy, set apart as sacred, consecrate, to purify or free form sin. The furnace of fire is to purify as mentioned in 1 Peter 4:12, "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the "fiery trial" which is to try you..... and 1 Peter 1:7, "That the trial of your faith being much more precious than gold that parisheth, though it be tried with fire..." Peter is quoting from Isaiah 48:10, "Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Jesus said in John 15:20, that "...The servant is not greater than his Lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you..." These words spoken by Christ, God will honor. Those in Christ who are Christ's servants, will have to deal with what Christ prophesied. No one likes it, but we love God, and we go through it knowing we are being perfected in Christ through the Holy Spirit. But, if a Christian does not go through this, then this verse applies as someone else pointed out, Hebrews 12:8, "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then ye are bastards, and not sons." God bless!

God does not punish us in our life under this current dispensation (New Covenant) because His Son took our punishment; Jesus died to cover the sins of the world and sin is blotted out in Christ, Colossians 2:14, “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.” God is working today to gathering the souls of those who will be saved in Christ; and He is doing this through the Holy Spirit. Philippians 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” So, It is God who Has begun a good work, and He is perfecting it in us, 1 Peter 5:10, “But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.” 1 Corinthians 1:3-4, “Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, who comforteth us in all our tribulations, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. So, as we go through our tribulation and suffering and afterwards, we are to comfort others the way God comforts us. But if we think we are being punished, how will God comfort us? We will suffer tribulation, persecution, and difficult times, which is the process of the furnace of fire. When we find ourselves in the furnace, it’s a shock to the system, the psyche, and the heart. Christians are place in situation they have never experience before, and of course will not have the knowledge and wisdom to help them maneuver in such situations. God is aware that when He throws the Christian in the furnace of fire, that Christian is going to make many mistakes throughout their trial, and these mistakes are sins. However, we are told to count it all joy. So, what are we counting all joy while going through such trials that we don’t like, don’t know how to handle, don’t know what to do, is scarry, heart breaking, makes us angry, etc.? What’s the joy of such a situation? God’s grace is the joy. God knowing the pain and suffering we will endure is working to make us “walk thou holy before Him.” We are being made perfect for the Kingdom in Christ Jesus. But because we really, really don’t understand, at first, we think that because our reactions of anger, strong words to others, bitterness, and other responses, which is what the trials are supposed to bring out, is wrong and sinful, and God is punishing us. We think, “I must have sinned, that’s why I’m dealing with this situation.” But no, God is not punishing us. Jesus was punished for us. God is growing us to be able to STAND! When we think God is punishing us, we are making a mistake in judgment. What’s happening is we are following the lies of the devil. There are two planes: Plane 1 In Christ there is no sin because Christ has been made sin for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21. Therefore, God does not impute sin onto us, Romans 4:8. In this present dispensation, God does not punish us, but allow us to go through trials for His purposes for our salvation. But He is doing the work on us, and we will get through it. Plane 2 Satan is the one causing the grief, but God allows it like Job. God uses it for good, but Satan uses it for bad. Satan lies and tells us that we are going through our suffering because we committed a sin against God, and that we are being punished. But this is a lie because Christ died for the sinner, and we are a reconciled to God in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:18, “And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them…” So, we are not being punished for our sins in this dispensation (New Covenant), we are being put through trials that are difficult, which provides an opportunity for Satan to lie to us, like he did with job by causing Job’s friends to make incorrect assessment of his situation causing more grief for him. The punishment will come in the end for those who do not accept Christ as their savior.

We do need to be disciplined when we've done wong, as a parent disciplines a child. It's for our own good.

Isn't it important that we distinguish between a few things experienced by the redeemed? 1. The Lord Himself promised tribulation 2. The rain falls on the just and the unjust 3. The personal and individual chastisement of the Father for a son's benefit and by extension the health of the entire Body Chastisement and or punishment is not condemnation. All of the above can be seen in the context of the following scripture--and of course the whole of scripture. Rom. 8:1 (NAS20S) Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom. 8:28 (NAS20S) And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

If I made you sorry by letter, I do not regret it... Godly sorrow works repentance to salvation, not to be regretted. 1 Corinthians 7:8-10 As many as I love I rebuke and chasten, be zealous therefore and repent. Rev 3:19 ------- There is a consequence for sin. The wages of sin is death. Sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. The grief we face is sometimes a direct consequence of sin. For example one caught in adultery would and should experience some level of grief. Those suppressing that kind of grief and shame are hardening their hearts. Through Christ we have been granted the divine power to turn from sin. And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:24 For some that crucifixion is a long and painful process, but nevertheless, in every Christians life, it happens, and they reach a state of mind of peace with God and peace with men, and control over themselves.

“The love of money causes all kinds of evil. Some people have left the faith, because they wanted to get more money, but they have caused themselves much sorrow.” 1 Timothy 6:10 OBSRVATION: The difference between envy and covetousness: Envy says, “I want the same things you have” Covetousness says, "I want yours" Unchecked envy can lead to covetousness. Unknown

I am not Mormon but I agree with the message of the article though. I have not studied any other religions. I only read the Bible for spiritual guidance.

The people that lived through the bubonic plagues of the Middle Ages, or even the Spanish flu, had more reason to believe the end of the world was nigh.

Government and military weapons of war and mass destruction [nuclear; biological; chemical - NBC]; not to mention the goal(s) of liberals; environmentalists and the New World Order crowd. Global sustainability numbers can be found on United Nations websites; the Georgia Guidestones; etc. There's much more to this but; China's child birth policy imposed on its people. If you're watching the news, there is a global push on for population control. Even Canada is lauding and praising people who voluntarily commit to and support limiting their offspring to two. There is yet no clear consensus or agreement on the Wuhan virus; did it come from Wuhan; the release intentional or accident; natural or engineered. It's clear someone is lying and there is a coverup. Talk about evil and birth control: How evil, cruel and inhumane is legalized abortion as birth control; an inconvenient unwanted appendage? Adding to the list of grotesque horrors that is no longer hidden, but announced and public knowledge. Governments and geneticist's are producing chimeras, hybrids part human and part animal. Our own U.S. Government announced the plan and creation of "Super Soldiers"; genetically modified to enhance their senses, strength, durability, food intake, and sleep requirements. For the purpose of keeping up with enemy countries and the battlefield. The same announcement was made pertaining to astronauts, to withstand the radiation, harsh environment and dangers of outter space. Now we have the creation of a "Space Force." I have previously written and connected the dots between Genesis 6:1-4 and Luke 17:26; and it's not all about eating, drinking, marrying, building and business as usual. Those days are front and center right now. Luke 21:28 (KJV) And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 1 Thessalonians 5:3 (KJV) For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. These birth pains are exponentially increasing; Muslims; terrorism; Afghanistan; the middle east; Russia; China; Turkey; Iran; N. Korea; etc. America is no longer a superpower and a global police force. We have lost all credibility, dependability, trust and faith of the entire planet. Most importantly, we have abandoned Israel as a friend and ally as a nation. There is no doubt, the things Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24: is going to increase in frequency and intensity. With the severity and mutations, is the Covid virus following that path? Tick, tick, tick...

God knows what He allows to happen for these days and in this time, we are the salt and light of this world and we should be trusting God for our life, what can go wrong what He doesn't know about ?He wants us here right now for a time like this, so Christians let your light shine so the world can see our heavenly Father in us, The reason Christians can also die is because we're still living in a fallen world, someday soon, it will be glorious when the King of King and Lord of Lord reigns forever...oh, what a day that would be!

How not to be cursed by our own tongue? • “For we all go wrong in a number of things. *If a man never makes a slip in his talk*, then he is a complete man and able to keep all his body in control.” (James 3.2). • “Their throat is like an open place of death; with their tongues they have said what is not true: the poison of snakes is under their lips: whose mouth is full of curses and bitter words:” (Romans 3.13,14). • “But *the tongue may not be controlled by man*; it is an unresting evil, it is full of the poison of death.” (James 3.8). Perceive how grievous is this situation: our tongue has affluence of venom, which can thoroughly take over us and the worst: we can quell it, what can condemns us to the hell that there is in it (Matthew 12.37; James 3.5,6; see also Ezekiel 28.18). It comes the question: how to sort out this quandary? We need to take on the responsibility for our sins and accept the judgement of Jesus: • “And the Lord God said to the snake, Because you have done this you are cursed more than all cattle and every beast of the field; you will go flat on the earth, and *dust will be your food* all the days of your life:” (Genesis 3.14). if our heart is humbled and we accept the punishment of our iniquity (Leviticus 26.41), being disposed to convive with this new reality if Jesus so desires, the Holy Scripture undertakes that we can procure freedom from this curse: • “Let him *put his mouth in the dust*, if by chance there may be hope.” (Lamentations 3.27-29). Perhaps you think: but this is easy! Nevertheless, look back in the previous verses: • “It is good for a man to undergo the yoke when he is young. Let him be seated by himself, saying nothing, because he has put it on him.” (Lamentations 3.27,28). How you can see, we need to take the yoke of Jesus: • “Come to me, all you who are troubled and weighted down with care, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and become like me, for I am gentle and without pride, and you will have rest for your souls; for my yoke is good, and the weight I take up is not hard.” (Matthew 11.28-30). And this only will be doable if we contemplate the power of Jesus in His Holy Scripture, inasmuch as the kingdom of the Creator is demonstration of power (1Corithians 2.4,5; 4.19,20): • “As in the days when you came out from the land of Egypt, let us see things of wonder. The nations will see and be shamed because of all their strength; they will put their hands on their mouths, their ears will be stopped. *They will take dust as their food like a snake*, like the things which go flat on the earth; they will come shaking with fear out of their secret places: they will come with fear to the Lord our God, full of fear because of you.” (Micah 7.15-17). Only if Jesus is with our mouth (as He wished to do with Moses – Exodus 4.12) we will be able to live what is written in Psalms 39.1 and, with this, get us free of ourselves: • “I said, I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue: *I will keep my mouth with a bridle, while the wicked is before me*” (Psalms 39.1). So, only speak after you believe in Jesus (Psalms 116.10; 2Corinthians 4.13). Notwithstanding, after this, can open your mouth because certainly your day will be fantastic: • “I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt: *open your mouth wide, and I will fill it*.” (Psalms 81.10). • “But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what all of you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what all of you shall speak. For it is not all of you that speak, but *the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you*.” (Matthew 10.19,20).

There is much in this to be profitable. As I am want to repeat over and over again--everything needs to bow to the Cross, Resurrection and Ascension. All doctrine needs to live there. Thanks, brother.

I think you have misunderstood me clearly. And there seems to be no shortage of that on Internet forums. What I do know, however, as a fact of face to face life in the churches and in private with Pastors and Elders - and even occasionally with some brethren that are extremely gifted and have a good account to their ministries - this subject is misunderstood even when it is stated plainly. The reason for that seems to be essentially characterised in what you opened the thread with. Unless of course I have misunderstood you. But if we take the element I have highlighted in red above then what could I say of that - seeing as you have asked me? Well I would say that it sounds like the truth. And even in saying that the inflection already gives cause to be concerned that I am saying that it is a lie. That is the problem with spiritual meanings. A truth must be true as God reckons truth and as the Scripture proves its meaning - but truth must also be set in the reality of the experience of brethren in the churches - so that a sounds like the truth - may not in fact do any harm and neither might it be a lie. Whereas, it may in truth be well short of what is either needful or biblically true. And the measure of that is set in prophetic lines that cannot be easily explained. So if for example you were in my church and you shared onetime and said precisely what you have said in red above - then it is likely that almost the entirety of the church would say Amen. Only a bitter person may stumble at it. And a bitter person may have good cause to be bitter because he may have been genuinely harmed in the church itself. So when he hears that which asserts a meaning that tells him that Jesus' blood covers his sins - or that He bore his sins in His own body - or that He was chastised for his iniquities - he may well remember that these things were once his and yet he also may know that he is broken and cannot even receive such a simple truth. Spiritual meanings and effects do not simply run one way from God to men - but they also run from men to God. The Father sees that man's heart and one day He will answer his cries. Almost all the Pastors and Elders I know refuse to see that condition - overlooking that reality they almost always press the man to forgive without even acknowledging the offence - or else rebuke him if he shows the least anger and speaks out. And in churches that have thrown off any truly godly restraint he may be encouraged to join in the parade despite his condition of bitterness and a way is found to accommodate his condition and the man is eventually drawn into the same ill effect that grips his Pastor and the Elders so that his position is twice as bad as it was when he was stumbled by a harsh hand. Some believers are simply carnal and fleshy and don't want to live holy and godly lives. Other believers are bitter as described above and other believers are spiritually full of pride. The list can be almost endless - but every part of it has a reality that consists of all believers being beneficiaries of Christ' sacrifice of Himself for their sin - and their walk that either glorifies Him or else in the end puts Him to an open shame. In our time that condition is nearly full. So to answer your question in red above then prophetically I say that it is not nearly sufficient to express the truth of what God has done to provide us a way to walk by faith - and a way to escape by reasonable means. What God did to answer these things was laid down from the foundation of the Earth. And that meaning is altogether Christ crucified for sin and our death and resurrection in Him and only then when we have truly understood the Cross - do we find even a semblance of liberty to say what you have said in a time when the Cross is almost entirely refused because it speaks of an end to life and the grave.

According to the CDC about 675,000 people in the USA died from the Spanish Flu. According to the CDC about 685,000 have died from Covid so far.

What you mentioned related to falsehood in the ministry, so that's why I mentioned it. This is what you said: "Well I suppose I made several visible points because I stated them - but if you mean what was not stated then I mean that tribulation as it is coming will be punishment on a wicked and perverse house that has made a commodity out of the flock. And that will first descend upon the pastors and the elders - and then likewise to those who have upheld them in their abuses. There is no hope at all for the false prophetic ministry of 40 years ago that brought these effects and consequences in."

Ecclesiastes 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.

Thursday 9-16-21 Tishri 8, 5782 5th. day of the weekly cycle, 88th. Summer Day Our Daily Bread Today 16th September 2021 Devotional – From Mess to Message Our Daily Bread Today 16th September 2021 Devotional Message By James Banks (Our Daily Bread Ministries) Click Here To Read Previous ODB Ministries Devotional Topic: From Mess to Message Today’s Scripture: Mark 5:1–20 Key Verse: Tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you. – Mark 5:19 Bible in a Year: Proverbs 25–26; 2 Corinthians 9 INSIGHT: Jesus has power over all creation, as is clear from today’s passage (Mark 5:1–20). This includes the spiritual world as well. The owners of the pigs would have suffered a large loss when their herd was destroyed in an instant. But we might wonder how the Jewish observers reacted. Bible teacher D. A. Carson makes the point that Jesus’ Jewish audience would have seen the loss of the pigs as of little consequence. Pigs were considered unclean animals (Leviticus 11:7). In 167 bc, Syrian tyrant Antiochus IV (Antiochus Epiphanes) had even sacrificed a pig on the altar in the temple—a despicable act of sacrilege in Jewish eyes. Charles Stanley In Touch Daily Devotional 16 September 2021 – God’s Provision Our Daily Bread Today 16th September 2021 Devotional Message: Darryl was a baseball legend who nearly destroyed his life with drugs. But Jesus set him free, and he’s been clean for years. Today he helps others struggling with addiction and points them to faith. Looking back, he affirms that God turned his mess into a message. Nothing is too hard for God. When Jesus came ashore near a cemetery after a stormy night on the Sea of Galilee with His disciples, a man possessed by darkness immediately approached Him. Jesus spoke to the demons inside him, drove them away, and set him free. When Jesus left, the man begged to go along. But Jesus didn’t allow it, because He had work for him to do: “Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you” (Mark 5:19). We never see the man again, but Scripture shows us something intriguing. The people of that region had fearfully pleaded with Jesus “to leave” (v. 17), but the next time He returned there, a large crowd gathered (8:1). Could the crowd have resulted from Jesus sending the man home? Could it be that he, once dominated by darkness, became one of the first missionaries, effectively communicating Jesus’ power to save? We’ll never know this side of heaven, but this much is clear. When God sets us free to serve Him, He can turn even a messy past into a message of hope and love. Reflect & Pray What has Jesus set you free from? How can you share with others what He’s done for you? Beautiful Savior, I praise You for Your amazing power! No darkness can stand against You! Help me to walk in Your light today. Rick Warren Devotional 16 September 2021 Daily Hope – Testing Comes Before Blessing Our Daily Bread Today 16th September 2021 Devotional Message. Our Daily Bread Ministries (ODB) is a Christian organization founded by Dr. Martin De Haan in 1938. It is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, with over 600 employees. It produces several devotional publications, including Our Daily Bread. (Visited 6 times, 6 visits today) Tags: our Daily Bread 2021 Our Daily Bread (odb.org) https://odb.org/video Love always, Walter and Debbie

While I would not pin the camps directly to COVID, because to me that seems like putting the cart a little ahead of the horse. There are camps. We have information about them being all over the US, They are in Canada as well. Australia is a big place. I don't think we can say beyond all doubt there are no camps there. The UK has camps they use now for those who need 're education'. There could be many reasons for these camps. All of the camps I am aware of have fence around them which would indicate they are not a 'come and go as you wish' sort of thing. If the camps were for natural disasters I doubt they would have fence around them. My guesses are anticipation of an eventual public uprising or containment of prisoners because in that case the prisons would not be enough to contain people. They have taken WalMarts, removed all of the product and made some of them into containment camps. In other cases they are dedicated camps with some even having playgrounds built in but they have high chain link fence surrounding them with barbed wire along the top facing inward. I don't say any of this to scare anyone, but yes, these camps have been around for a long time. FEMA was said to be the main entity in the US who is building and managing these camps which are apparently empty to this day. To me this all reek of plans made well in advance and in anticipation of some event or events they think they will be needed for.

I was just wondering how can we be sure that Covid is brought here by God vs the wickedness of men? If God brings us a disease for punishment would there already be labs working on that disease and the cure for it before it even gets here? 7. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. 8. James 1:14 Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 9. James 1:15 Then desire becomes pregnant and gives birth to sin. When sin grows up, it gives birth to death. Ecclesiastes 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.

BEING THANKFUL FOR CHASTENING -- BECAUSE HEBREWS 12:7 if you endure chastening --- GOD dealeth with you as sons for what son is he whom THE FATHER chasteneth not --12:8-- but if you be without chastisement whereof all are partakers then you are bastards and not sons 1 THESSALONIANS 5:18 in everything --give thanks-- for this is the will of GOD in CHRIST JESUS concerning you LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

The chastisement and discipline are the trials! God chastise and scourge those he loves, Hebrews 12:6-7. Consider the word scourge! Christ was scourged, John 19:1, “Then Pilot therefore took Jesus, and scourged him” The trials are difficult because of our sinful nature. Through the trials, God is conforming us to the likeness of Christ, Romans 8:29, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestination to be conformed to be the image of His Son...” James 1:12, "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."

Hi biblelesson, You have picked up on a somewhat distorted theology that constantly circulates in various forms. As a Christian I would be most concerned if God didn't correct and discipline me for getting out of line, and put obstacles in my path to protect and prevent me from abusing my position in the body of Christ. God judged and punished the wicked pre-flood inhabitants of earth, and also Israel for backsliding into spiritual fornication and idolatry. I believe sin has consequences for all, even for the redeemed. Those who are really saved are led to repentance from sin by the chastisement of God. Hardened criminals who come to Christ in prison testify to this, as do many who have walked in darkness and been brought low before repenting. From start to finish the Bible warns God's People that sin has consequences. In one sense Moses was "punished" by being refused entry to the Promised Land and David was "punished" by the loss of children and not being allowed to build the Temple. Some of the letters to the churches in Revelation warn of "punishment" for those who do not repent, and Paul was told why God permitted his suffering to persist. (2Co 12:7) And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.

You are absolutely correct. The bible warns about many false prophets who will be punished to include those who uphold them as well, and yes we see this throughout many ministries that started more than 40 years ago. But how is what I posted upholding "abuse and harm the flocks of God" by these falsehoods? Just because people take advantage of and manipulate God's people in false ministries, that does not erase the truth of God's word. It's unfortunate that we have to deal with situations such as the one you mention, but we must learn how to discern. Many unsuspecting Christians have been taken advantage of by false ministries, and still are being taking advantage of and mislead. I for one have been hurt by them, but what I did not know then, I know now. God led me out and healed my hurt.

I don’t know what your point is.

There are major problems with this presentation because the church in many places is filled with people who utterly depend on exactly these premises to abuse and harm the flocks of God. Just as in the past and to a lesser extent today the church in many places has been filled with those who abuse the flocks by a heavy hand. Today they abuse the flocks by turning away from sin and winking at harm. In your scheme the first ought to be that God perfects through discipline those whom He has called and in the second scheme judgement begins in the household of God. One is sonship - the other is judgement and a taking away.

Even if you were do not worry about that. The primary matter is to Believe Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins. This is is the primary because we do not die in our sins....Because Jesus Christ took the punishment of our sins. Some of the rest are important or less important but nothing can Judge faith in Jesus Christ. But it is always better if someone understands better. God bless

Not any dark matter was discovered. It's a theory. Scientists made a $74 million dollar dark matter detector, a few years ago. It spotted absolutely no dark matter. I hear they got a grant to build a bigger detector for an additional $74 million. Want to place a bet on what it finds? God said he stretched out the heavens. I wonder if that was it? Wouldn't it have been cool to see God do that?

A Message For All Of Us! The Window Through Which We Look A young couple moved into a new neighborhood. The next morning while they were eating breakfast, The young woman saw her neighbor hanging the Wash outside. 'That laundry is not very clean,' she said. 'She doesn't know how to wash correctly. Perhaps she needs better laundry soap.' Her husband looked on, but remained silent. Every time her neighbor would hang her wash to dry, The young woman would make the same comments. About one month later, the woman was surprised To see a nice clean wash on the line and said to her Husband: 'Look, she has learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this.' The husband said,'I got up early this morning and Cleaned our windows.' AND SO IT IS WITH LIFE. What we see when watching others Depends on 'The Window Through Which We Look.'

I just posted a 2-part blog having to do with the harvest of the wheat. The general harvest is not the same as the gathering of the firstfruits and the firstborn. The general harvest is gathered in last, the firstfruits are brought in first. The firstfruits are gathered to God's Temple; the full harvest gathered to God's barn. Big difference: the firstfruits are the elect of God who will be taken up to God's Temple in heaven, being faithful disciples of Christ; whereas the harvest is gathered on earth to the lands of Israel. These points just hit the highlights of the blog, the first part (regarding the firstfruits and firstborn) is found here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/ The second part, having to do with the general harvest, found here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/

Amen 2 Corinthians 12:9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

It is called......Mind your own business.

The Lord created all things, giving life and breath to all. If Genesis 1 and 2 are understood to be a vision of creation given to the author by the Spirit of the living God, then man's understanding of something so incomprehensibly vast as His creation changes over time as more of His cosmos is revealed to us all. Indeed, this vision of creation encompasses more than that which came before us: the Lord God, who declares the end from the beginning, spoke of the seventh day when He rested from His work. Therefore portions of the vision point toward what is to come, that revealing of the sons and daughters of God to His cosmos (creation). Everything points to Jesus Christ. Just as much of what our Lord did when He walked in this flesh was not recorded in the Gospel (the world couldn't accommodate the books), the same can be said of something so mind-boggling as the universe which our Lord has made. In this we agree, that ancients did not conceive of what we have witnessed in this day and age, taking such things for granted like we do. Dark matter stars? The Lord created black holes in space and time, something which the ancients never conceived of. Worlds? Yes, innumerable worlds orbit countless stars in a spinning panoply of galaxies seemingly without end or beginning. God is merciful towards us, remembering that our frame is dust. If every detail of the Lord's creation past, present, and future were committed in the scriptures, then I cannot imagine that this solar system would have room to accommodate the books!

I just pinned it and featured it....

We all fall at times! But just know, that God, Jesus and His angels is watching you, and are pleased with our struggle to conform to His righteousness in the inner man. The angels are clapping their hands as they witness our love for God and how we continue to look towards Christ as your strength. The Holy Spirit is working in us and is strengthening us and moving us forward, though it is difficult! We are being witnessed: Matthew 18:10, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." Hebrews 1:14, Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" Our enemies are being witnessed also: Psalms 2:4, says "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." The angels are fighting against our enemies, but we can't see them fighting. They are for our good as ministering spirits. So just know that our actions are witnessed by God and His Heavenly beings! That's why we count it all joy; and they are joyful that we continue to love God through our struggles and are clapping their hands for you, Luke 15:10, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."

Sometimes pandemics and diseases are the only way for some people to turn to God. That's what is important. Too many people get wrapped up in this life and do not have the eyes fixed on eternity with Jesus.

Nature has a way of self correcting. If we have more people than the land can support, famine, pestilence and pandemics can't be far behind. I see a dystopian future awaiting those of us still here.

Tuesday 9-14-21 Tishri 6, 5782 3rd. day of the weekly cycle, 86th. Summer Day Our Daily Bread 14th September 2021 Devotional – Outside the Camp Our Daily Bread 14th September 2021 Devotional Message By Tim Gustafson (Our Daily Bread Ministries) Topic: Outside the Camp Today’s Scripture: Hebrews 13:11–16 Key Verse: Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. – Hebrews 13:12 Bible in a Year: Proverbs 19–21; 2 Corinthians 7 INSIGHT: The audience for the New Testament letter to the Hebrews consisted of the Diaspora—Jewish Christ-followers who’d been scattered due to persecution. The nature of the audience perhaps explains the heavy emphasis on Israel’s history and the sacrificial system of Judaism, which forms a point of reference for the work of Jesus. The content of the letter is clearly Christ-centered, lifting Jesus up as superior to angels, priests, and Moses, and affirming Christ’s redemptive sacrifice as superior to the sacrificial system of Israel’s temple. Hebrews is also shrouded in mystery, due largely to the fact that this letter is anonymous. The human authorship of Hebrews has long been the subject of both scholarly and devotional examination, with much ink being spilled arguing for a particular author. The individuals named as potential authors range from Paul to Apollos to Barnabas to Luke to Priscilla and more. Our Daily Bread 14th September 2021 Devotional Message: Friday was market day in the rural town in Ghana where I grew up. After all these years, I still recall one particular vendor. Her fingers and toes eroded by Hansen’s disease (leprosy), she would crouch on her mat and scoop her produce with a hollowed-out gourd. Some avoided her. My mother made it a point to buy from her regularly. I saw her only on market days. Then she would disappear outside the town. In the time of the ancient Israelites, diseases like leprosy meant living “outside the camp.” It was a forlorn existence. Israelite law said of such people, “They must live alone” (Leviticus 13:46). Outside the camp was also where the carcasses of the sacrificial bulls were burned (4:12). Outside the camp was not where you wanted to be. This harsh reality breathes life into the statement about Jesus in Hebrews 13: “Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore” (v. 13). Jesus was crucified outside the gates of Jerusalem, a significant point when we study the Hebrew sacrificial system. We want to be popular, to be honored, to live comfortable lives. But God calls us to go “outside the camp”—where the disgrace is. That’s where we’ll find the vendor with Hansen’s disease. That’s where we’ll find people the world has rejected. That’s where we’ll find Jesus. Reflect & Pray How do you initially react to outsiders and misfits? In what practical way might you go to Jesus “outside the camp”? Thank You, Jesus, that You don’t show any favoritism. Thank You for going outside the camp for me. Our Daily Bread 14th September 2021 Devotional Message. Our Daily Bread Ministries (ODB) is a Christian organization founded by Dr. Martin De Haan in 1938. It is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, with over 600 employees. It produces several devotional publications, including Our Daily Bread. (Visited 192 times, 162 visits today) Tags: our Daily Bread 2021 Our Daily Bread (odb.org) Love always, Walter and Debbie

Hello Waggles, You would certainly know better than I for sure. I'd copy and paste some YouTube videos and testimonies to back up my statement, that are being constructed and their function and purpose. But I'd have to go through the process of TOS, that is too much hassle. From the information I am getting from media on your country, I understand there is a lot of resistance and protest with mandatory vaccine requirements and "passports?" I believe this reported "pandemic", falls well short of the official definition of what a global pandemic is. I could go back and re-check, but I recall seeing an official Center for Disease Control [CDC] article confirming it does not meet the criteria of pandemic? Let me ask a question about "law abiding citizens," their morals, conscience and concerns, obeying governments every dictate? How would we apply this verse? Luke 20:25 (KJV) And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

As an Australian living Downunder I am not aware of any "camps" for covid infected or the unvaccinated. There are some quarantine "camps" where returning international visitors can quarantine for 14 days and take several coronavirus tests. If not infectious they leave these quarantine facilities after 14 days and go home. If infectious they wait until their swabs return a negative result and then they are released to return to their homes. At present there is one quarantine facility or "camp" in Australia - Howard Springs near Darwin Northern Territory - all other quarantine setups for international visitors and cross border travellers stay in hotels (usually 14 days and having 3 swabs taken). Australia is likely to reward fully vaccinated people with a "passport" to visit pubs and clubs and sports, but the anti-vaxxers will be barred from such. In a pandemic people should simply get vaccinated. And Christians ought to be law-abiding citizens, as vaccination against coronavirus is not a violation of the gospel nor ungodly.

Well outside of cities, and not near any hospitals. If I were to make a prediction, I'd say we can expect the same here in America and in Canada in the near future. I will not comment on what it being constructed right now in America, that I perceive will be used as Covid concentration camps. Does this make any sense? Our southern border is being flooded by the hundreds of thousands. There is no control or screening for Covid, they go where they wish; there's no concern from our government, period. However: Yet, they are doing their best to monitor who has the now required vaccination(s), and are setting up controls to monitor who has, and does not have the jabs. The implementation of Covid passports is at the front door. They are now dictating and restricting where unvaccinated people can go and do, unless you're an illegal alien. It's all about people control, and the establishment of the New World Order. 9/25/2021 Sprint update: Can you hear me now?

More vaccines = more infections. Some virologists say the vaccines create variants. Isreal is one of the most vaccinated countries yet I read a headline saying it's the world's covid hot-spot. The minister on NTEB said the virus was engineered for the vaccine. The vaccine is the precursor to the future mark of the beast, which only the KJV says it is IN the hand or forehead. They don't care that the vaccine has killed thousands and disabled or disfigured many others. Many of us don't have long to decide if we take it risking the above or not taking it sacrificing our jobs, income, homes and cars. A quick death would be preferable. NTEB is only one of the places I heard Bill Gates lecture about reducing the population by 15% through vaccines and reproductive health (abortion). I only recently learned of Bill Gates Sr.'s position at Planned Parenthood and the original evil name of it. Very, very few know or believe how deep this goes, how many rich families believe in eugenics, how all of this ties to the New World Order. Democrats and Republicans both part of it. Has anyone else seen the pic a few months after 9/11 featuring, I believe, Fauci, Soros, Bill Gates Sr and others? Anyone seen the story, I think on 60 minutes, about the implanted microchip that monitors your health? I googled the job listing here in the US about internment camps. Some say it was taken down. But yes, up to $130,000 per year. Army, National Guard, FEMA. Australia already has covid camps, do they not? Mark 13 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

A lot lot more bad things and events are going to happen and come upon the whole world yet. Pestilence is just one calamity. Luke 21:10 Then said he [Jesus] to them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; 11 and great earthquakes shall be, and in diverse places famines and pestilences; and terrors shall be and great signs from heaven. Luke 21:25 And signs shall be in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of sea and billow; 26 men fainting for fear, and expectation of the things coming on the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh.

My grandparents said that about Social Security numbers, and mom and dad said that about barcodes. I have friends that say that about credit cards if/when we go cashless. My grandparents thought the end was near during the Spanish Flu epidemic. I think personally that we want Jesus to come back so bad we are looking for things going on to show ourselves the time is here. I still think he should have been here in 1988, but as you can see, he's late. I also know from deep personal experience that you can mess with a happy life by focusing on the end and waiting and wanting it to come. Every time I decide yep this or that is the start, the spirit just says...... yep just like 1988. So I don't join in many of these threads, but I felt kind of led to express my opinion today. Fact is that if we have the Holy Spirit, we don't have to be concerned about all these things for he will either protect us from it, or he'll get us through. So if we have the Spirit there isn't anything to worry about..... and if we don't we are pretty much (bad word skip it).

@LearningToLetGo I think we are all at different levels of learning to trust. I know I am right now. I'm going through a real strong trial, and so thankful I'm learning so many new things about my faith. God wants us, so much, to be more like Him, but it can be a painful process, while James 1, say's to find joy in our trials. I am getting closer and better at it. It's a process.

Interestingly in Job, God never gives him an answer.

If we a Christians ,we are to be the light shine in this evil dark world ,let people see why we're different ,we trust the Lord

"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us." Romans 8:18

No, date setting or trying to determine when the rapture is going to happen is not biblical. It is going to happen in God's perfect timing.