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I've been following this dialog and thought to respond if I might. Of the 7 churches in Revelation 2 & 3, two did not receive a correction. Laodicea did receive a stern one, and He told them "Those whom I love I reprove and discipline, therefore be zealous and repent." Compare this with Hebrews 12:6, "For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines and scourges every son He receives." "Every son He receives" - therefore discipline for His children whom He loves, not loss of their life or eternal salvation.

Keep going. No one was taught much about evolution in college either. The only 'evolution' that is seen is microevolution, which won't get you what evolutionists claim. We see tiny variances within 'species,' not above them, which will get you a sibling that is different between the same DNA source (the same parents). There are hard limits to microevolution. Given a trillion years, you won't ever go 'above species' to get you a new kind because there is nothing in the DNA pool to allow it. I cannot believe evolutionists carry on, as if Darwin was right. Even Darwin knew better to wait on the evidence to make claims, but the evidence never showed up.

Just a few mentions of things I find interesting and have contemplated. If I recall correctly, the nation of Israel was initially chosen to be the light of the world. As a nation, they collectively were partially blinded by the Light, and rejected the Light. The apostle Paul was temporarily blinded by the Light (Lord's glory). The word LIGHT is in 235 verses of the Bible and used in 26 ways in the Bible (c.f. Webster's 1828 dictionary). Light, in all its biblical uses and construct properties, is fascinating. When secular science does not understand something, they assign words to it, such as DARK energy, DARK matter, a singularity, etc. Light and dark are opposites, light exposes, and dark hides. Light has both physical and spiritual properties and applications. The physical properties of light and how it acts are mind-boggling. Is visible light a particle or a wave? Science says it depends on whether the light is being observed (what?). Science does not know how long the light spectrum is; some claim it is infinite. The Lord's Light and Glory are endless. We can only visualize with eyes and modern technology an infinitesimal portion of however long the spectrum is. It is said the speed of light is a law and the speed limit of the universe. Over the last couple of centuries, measurements of that speed have indicated that the rate is slowing down (controversial). It is claimed if the speed of light were a little faster or a little slower, it would drastically affect our vision, environment, and refraction. I believe this to be a measurement of the speed of light. The smallest measure of time that can be broken down for light to pass through the eyeball. 1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [emphasis added] Before the fall, I think Adam and Eve could see everything, including the spiritual realm, one of many things lost because of the first sin. Could they have also seen the notes coming off music, many more colors, and the entire light spectrum? Did the Lord create the entire light spectrum to stay hidden? Can some or all animals still see into the supernatural realm? Ever notice your pet reacting to something seemingly not there? Could the following verses be a preview of coming attractions: Numbers 22:23 (KJV) And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. [emphasis added] 2 Kings 6:17 (KJV) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. [emphasis added]

John 11:35 Jesus wept.

I think of the physical properties of light. Without it we can't see, it provides heat, and when it comes to light from the sun the plants that play multiple roles in sustaining life very nearly everything in the planet would perish very quickly. Seems pretty on target for how we'd end up physically and spiritually if God decided it was all too much of a bother maintaining it all and extending His mercy to us.

It was a poor choice of words on my part, brother. I value you more than anything else. I certainly don't mind participating if I can manage to keep a foot out of my mouth, and I'll give this more thought tomorrow. It should be a slow day at work. Holidays usually are.

Jn 15, 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. Abide: to continue, stay, remain, to reside. To tabernacle. I believe I give God Honor and glory by abiding in Christ. How? When I abide in the true vine, (keeping my heart and mind in constant communion as possible with my fellowship to God) I bear the fruit Christ produces, not what I produce, I only bear it, and this fruit is for others. I know this. But I can choose to abide or not, to walk in the spirit or not, to grieve or quench the spirit, or obey. Choice, for good or bad. When I decide to help someone I do not consider my motives, I just do it, "Love thy neighbor as thyself," or build something nice for my wife or wash the dishes for her, "Husbands love your wife." I assume doing the right thing would be pleasing/honoring to God, though I also enjoy getting that praise/pat on the back from my wife or my neighbor also. Is this somehow a wrong motive? Feeling good for having done a good thing? It gives me joy and my fellowship with God is strengthened for having done so. Why else would I be motivated unless my flesh had a motive I deceived myself to believe. If in haste my motive was not pure, perhaps to be seen, only, I receive no reward. OK, fine. I received my reward at that moment, from others then, and not God afterwards, for doing a good/right thing. Either way it is a win win. Seems it can get over complicated then easily thinking on it. I honestly do not believe nor have even considered that God will bring up the lost rewards, at the bema seat for having done good without thinking to say this is for the glory of God. "If you love me, keep my commandments" Do you do that for the glory of God or to be obedient and show God you love him? Or simply do it on auto pilot because you have conformed to the image of God. God knows my heart, no matter what I say to him. I know my heart is not to be trusted, as scripture says, deceitful, and who can know it. Motives??? Concerning sowing seed, if you have done much witnessing you can understand the blessings and the possible reproach/rebuke. I cannot understand having a wrong motive to share the gospel. I sure it wouldn't come from the devil to spread the good news. I've went on weekly church visitations for decades, and on my own as the opportunity arises. I assumed every believer would also considering they understand that is how they themselves heard the gospel, by some faithful believer having told them the good news when they were lost. "So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor" I suppose if I critiqued every thought of doing every good work, doing the right thing, questioning who receives the glory, God or myself, or both, (when abiding, Jesus produces the fruit, I bear it) I would come up with a supposed list for eventually not doing anything, worried I may mess something up. Oh yeah , how about"To him to knoweth to do good and doeth it not"...what do you do when you do something good because you knew according to that verse you did it out of obedience and not necessarily out of genuine love? Does it really matter if I just do it? Is God not honored if I didn't do it out of genuine love, or is God honored because I did it out of obedience, to show my love to him? Gets complicated, huh. I do know works done for show or bad motives get burned up prior to judgement. I assumed those acts, like sin, never would be remembered, nor rewarded. This is the first time I have heard about being judged on the good done right. "I can do all things through him who strengthens me"

If you can be more specific, I'll do my best. But to give many scripture quotes with each point I made would take me hours, which I don't have right now. But if there is something you would like me to clarify, please let me know and I'll get to it when I'm able. I did mention 1 Corinthians 3, which shows the believers judgement, his works and weather they will be purified or burned up. It specifically says that person will still be saved, even if they receive no rewards. This is telling, because it shows that a believer who was NOT living for God and had NO eternal rewards was STILL saved. The best book I have read on eternal security is called Eternal Security by the late Charles Stanley.

In this thread I wanted to discuss why men never came from Apes. We have ample proof, or maybe more accurately, adherents to Ape to man evolution don't have any proof. Here are a few facts to examine. From the book, Creation of an Evolutionist,by Jobe Martin: "When studied at the level of molecules,cells,or fossil bones, the evolutionary ancestors of people (ape-man or man-like-apes) are not to be found. In spite of this, elaborate attempts are made to "prove"than man evolved from early primates. When considering Ramapithecines in 1973, Alan Walker and Peter Andrews wrote their belief that the jaw of Ramapithecines was that of a true ape ( Nature, Vol. 244,1973, p. 313) In the late sixties, and early seventies, much of the scientific community ruled Ramapithecus ( an ape like creature)ancestral to the orangutan or to an ape, instead of it's original position as ancestral to humans, yet in 1982, the son of Louise and Mary Leakey, world famous pioneers in the study of " prehistoric" man, stated- Ramapithecines are thought to be the group from which our ancestors evolved. Further instances of hoax and quackery- Piltdown Man- Shown to be a hoax in 1953. Piltdown's filed teeth and bone had been stained to appear to make it look ancient, yet fourteen years after these findings, Harvard University published a lengthy quote in support of Piltdown man. As late as 1967, Harvard was STILL promoting Piltdown man. Nebraska Man- Nebraska man was formed from a single tooth found in 1922. In 1924, the skull was found and the toothe fit perfectly in the empty socket. It was a pig's tooth. Neaderthal and Cro-Magnon Man- These are now believed to be normal European Homosapiens. Some of these 'prehistoric men' have a larger brain cavity than modern man. Donald Johnson, one of the world's most recognized experts on "fossil man" writes. Neanderthal Man. He was another Homo. Some think he was the same species as ourselves... I consider Neanderthal nonspecific with sapiens, with myself. One hears talk about putting him in a business suit and turning him loose in the subway. It is true, one could do it, and he would never be noticed. He was just a little heavier boned than people of today, more primitive in a few facial features., but he was a man. His brain was as big as a moddern man's, but shaped in a slightly different way. Could he make change at the subway booth and recognize a token. He certainly could. Peking Man-Had been categorized as Homo erectus. He disappreaed during WW2 There is not a single bone left of Peking man.The bones that had been available were only a few fragments. Java Man- Dr. Eugene Dubios discovered another creature in the "Homo Erectus" category, which he called Java Man. Java Man was a skull cap and leg-bone. By the end of his life Dubois recanted. He believed the leg bone belonged to Homo sapiens and the skullcap of a giant ape or gibbon. Heidelberg Man-Was named Homo heidelbergensis. His finder recognized that he was a man and, thus belonged in the genus Homo, but decided to put him in a species of his own. Hiedelberg man consists of a single fossil- a lower jaw with teeth. Hiedelbreg man is imagination built around a jaw bone. Lucy and the Astralopithecenes-The star of this "human ancestor" is Donald Johanson's 3 1/2 ft. tall "Lucy". Supposedly, Lucy was the first creature to walk on two feet, instead of four feet, like other apes did ( and still do ). Lucy resembles Homo sapiens in three ways (theoretically): her knee, arm length, and pelvic bone. She has a humanlike knee joint, but this knee joint was found 60 to 80 meters deeper in the rock strata, and almost a mile away from the rest of the skeleton. To claim that this knee joint belonged to a partial skeleton found about a mile away is as logical as saying a chicken drumstick bone found in the parking lot of a local Kentucy Fried Chicken establishment was originally the leg of a chicken whose partial skeleton was found in your back yard. The other human-like bone is the left pelvic bone. This bone is complete and is used to prove Lucy walked upright. The problem is that this bones does not prove upright walking. Johanson believes the bone has been distorted by some means. And yet, there is no other pelvic bone with which to compare it. The bone, as it stands, more likely shows Lucy to have walked on all fours. DR. Solly Zuckerman evaluated the pelvic bone and he concluded that this telltail bone corresponded in one type of measurement to monkeys and baboons. Other scientists believe Australopithecus walked in a fashion similar to a chimpanzee. NONE of this adds up to any proof for an ape to man evolutionary sequence.

A man that has made a fortune singing about being wasted is upon his death celebrated as having brought joy to many over a very long time. Amazing eh!?

Yes.

Indeed. Something called genetic recombination occurs during conception. In a simplified nutshell, DNA contributed from both parents are rearranged, broken, and recombined during this process. The result? A unique human being. Some traits are inherited from one or both parents... new traits arise... and errors in this process can produce unique conditions that are good or harmful (or both). One way to conceptualize recombination: mom and dad's genes play genetic football.

@FreeGrace Reminds me of 2 Corinthians 7.10: "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

This is a good summation - that is, what was the believer's motivation? And at whose direction did they do those things? If the Lord told them to do it and they did, that will produce something eternally solid . . . their works will remain. Christ is building this and knows how it should look. If someone follows His fresh and living directions, the house will be built properly. But if the worker says to himself, "I know what this should look like as I think I know the plans well enough to do it!" and doesn't consult with the Architect & Builder (God), it is pointless and their work will need to be burned.

@Marilyn C @Dennis1209 @Neighbor @AnOrangeCat Light and glory are connected I think. God is light. I've heard it said that glory is just God expressed. We were created in His image and likeness and in Christ we have been given the glory of God. That first verse is really fascinating: "You are the light of the world. A city placed on a hill cannot be hidden." In this verse, redeemed man (the light of the world), and the city are connected. To me, when Jesus said "a city" it is a clear reference to the New Jerusalem. And the city is made up of God's people*, who have been given His glory. God dwells with man - is He outside His people or in them? * 12 gates/tribes of Israel (Rev 21:12), 12 foundations/apostles (Rev 21:14) To be sure, these are Interesting things to ponder . . .

Someone said, "these are the last days!" Someone else comes along and says "how do you know these are the last days?" The first guy says "these are YOUR last days either way!" I always thought that was kinda funny, and a good way to reply to someone who does not think we are living in the last days since all of us are getting closer to leaving Club Earth with each passing day!

I do not think that Catholics and Protestants can "come together" because Catholics consider Protestants as inferior. They consider the Protestant Reformation to be heresy, and therefore Protestants are heretics and not true Christians.

When you say "not suggest..." you are giving your opinion. I don't see any suggestion of loss of salvation. And what do you do with the clear teaching of Jesus? In John 5:24 Jesus said whoever believes possesses eternal life, which establishes the FACT that at the moment of belief, the believer has eternal life. Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (believers, Jn 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH. These are the clearest of words that teach eternal security. From the moment of faith in Christ for salvation, the believer is eternally secure. Any disobedience or unfaithfulness from THAT POINT forward is a "family matter" and our Heavenly Father won't kill His children, any more than any decent human father would kill theirs. Rather, He will discipline them with painful discipline, which is what Heb 12:11 SAYS. And the Bible is full of examples of how painful that can be.

The dead in Christ (Bride) rise first. Those alive in Christ (Bride) rise next and meet them in the air. Harpozo. Rapture. Those alive in Christ are not resurrected, they ascend. The Bride has already been crucified with Christ, buried in his baptism, arose with Christ all by the power of the Holy Spirit. Our resurrection is already complete. We all ascend and receive our Glorified body. In Christ Montana Marv

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15.57-58)

It is astounding to me that so many people believe in evolution as there is a massive lack of evidence for it. I suppose it doesn't help that people are forced to endure evolution for 12 years in school and are never told the gaping holes and problems with the theory. There were actually a couple mathematicians that calculated that evolution is literally 100% IMPOSSIBLE. This is a subject that should be taught in the churches as the false teaching of evolution is the main reasons college students who were raised christian abandon their faith. Genesis 1 debunks evolution and if Genesis 1 cant be trusted, then neither can anything after it. This subject is far more important than most people seem to realize.

We cannot know the date, but we are to discern the season. As the Apostle Paul put it, our salvation draws nearer every day. Romans 13:11 (KJV) 11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. Of this we can be absolutely certain.

I believe that some of the hard sayings of all the Bible that we have difficulty understanding could be because we don't consider the historical/contextual settings of the verses we are reading. And sometimes the culture we live in doesn't help us to understand those verses either For instance: On the day of Pentecost there were 120 in an upper room 'in one accord'. Now, some people today, might interpret this with wonder saying . . . 'I had no idea Honda was manufacturing cars in Jesus' day, and also . . . how did they get that car into an upper room . . . and how did they fit 120 believers into that car . . . ? I know . . . its a silly joke at best, and at worst a very bad joke . . . but . . . saying this to illustrate that some of the 'hard sayings' of scripture can be understood by understanding the history and culture of the times in which it was said. My 2 cents . . . Ray

Paul. In 2 cor7:10 say that10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. God frequently lamented, ' if my people who are called by my name will turn (repent)from there wicked ways and pray, then I will hear in heaven and heal their land. The ot sacrifices for sin were costly, only someone who was sorry for their sin would go through the effort of making a sacrifice for sin. They had to be sorry (repentant).

That this is an issue, much less one that ends up in Federal court, is an indicator of the overall mental health condition of our country today.

I have prayed, Lord, I don't want to be in the valley of trials or on a mountain top, I just want to be in the cleft of the Rock! So snuggle up to Jesus and let Him hold you in His mighty arms, choosing to stay in that place of safety comfort and healing. Let the oil of His Spirit flow over you.

I do like the song "I Can Only Imagine". I also have several Mahalia Jackson CDs love her as well. Phil Keaggy remains a favorite guitarist. One Bad Pig isn't the best punk music but they are a fun bunch with a serious message--a cop and a street preacher formed it. Otherwise I like hard rock and alternative/post punk. Of secular I like Santana, Rush, Creedence Clearwater Revival and King's X. Of Christian I like Whitecross, Bloodgood, Mastedon, , X Sinner, Rez, Siloam, Breakfast With Amy, Mad At the World, and Steve Taylor among many many others. Kids have been saved just reading Bloodgood's lyrics! DO CHECK OUT SILOAM AND IDLE CURE based on this comment. I love folk music and dances of all nations and the classical romantic period tops much of my listening preferences--from Gershwin to Tchaikovsky, to Khachaturian, Kodaly, Borodin, Prokofiev, Smetana, Rachmaninoff, Litz, Brahms, Lecuona, and Rimsky-Korsakov. No concussions as yet from head banging but there isn't much danger of one since I do have to be careful about re-injuring my neck. Many thanks to you guys for your concern-- I am sure that many out there need to be warned that head and neck injuries are very real dangers of head banging and that deafness will definitely follow listening to loud music. Not only are my son and I wearing hearing aids but I have had 3 dogs go deaf from my loud music!!! There are few things more pathetic than a dog that can't hear you call him away from danger.

Psalm37:4 Delight yourself in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart.

He's actually saying that... I saw a bunch of this guy's posts in another thread and he thinks Israel is the best and the Israeli government will force most people in the world to take the mark of the beast. He's a freaky fellow with freaky ideas from the Book of Left Field!

As I percieve things, I would agree with Tristen, that over the years there has been a concerted effort to lean in a biased way towards species to another species evolution, even in the face of opposing evidence to the contrary. I don't enjoy arguments either @Marathoner. Species to new species evolution is a battleground of the devil. I think we need solidarity as believers that this isn't a correct teaching. I'm not saying I don't need to learn, and I'm open to learning which new lies developed in the scientific community concerning evolutionary species to new species false teaching, not that I'm a complete idiot on this. If we seemingly support some of this false scientific teaching, we are shooting arrows at our own soldiers. This is why I was trying to ascertain what you were saying because it wasn't clear to me. I see this as an either/or kind of thing, and not a middle ground war. God created us separate from the animals period. Much to the contrary of popular teaching on the subject, none of what they are saying fits into any serious scientific endeavor. I wanted to see what you were proposing and why my initial post was irrelevant to you. Hoaxes, numerous ones, are VERY relevant.No matter what 'updated' information you are familiar with. To me, this is a serious war. We are loosing young minds to these false ideas in schools across our nation, so any Christian who seems to be coming out in support of it, or doesn't come across as sure, I will question. I will even rake a good brother such as yourself over the coals to get clarity To me it's worth it to have clarity to further the discussion. If the updated information you present brings more clarity then by all means we need it. I was interested to know what you were specifically referring to?

Ah, so your group is finishing up the freedom from condemnation in Christ with the confidence of the believer through election. Cool stuff! Chapters 9 through 11 become really interesting as therein is stated God's plan for Israel. That should make for more excellent times together in study.

Sure there is quiet and rest and peace among atheists. It's a whole lot easier as an atheist to be at peace than it is for a Christian having been called by God into His service. To not know of any such thing as spiritual warfare is an ignorance that is bless. Being Christian is a whole lot of work that the atheist has no part in and can instead rest day after day, in quiet, unaware of the labor of Christianity for those called into service in the army of Jesus. While the yoke of Christ may be light it is a yoke.

I hear ya! Glad to hear some good stuff is coming out! Yeah and on the different styles, I do like some pop stuff, easy listening and... don't tell anybody but I even have some country sounding Christian music in my collection like Russ Taff, the Imperials, Jason Crabb... Let's keep that private! Ha Ha! I got hair halfway down my back and us long hairs have a reputation to uphold!

This is certainly true for many topics. However, with regards to the origins debate, I think it is more the case that most people have only ever been exposed to one side of the argument (or at-least, overwhelmingly been exposed to only one side) - giving many the false impression that only one side of the argument is valid. The onus of "proof" is thus incorrectly placed on anyone daring to hold a different position. As such, this self-superior posture becomes their default position - alongside an insinuated obligation to accept this position, or else be subjected (justly - in their minds) to the false, unsupported accusation of intellectual compromise.

Well I can't say enough about casting our cares upon the Lord for He cares for us (1 Peter 5:7)... and being careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. (Philippians 4:6-8) Doing a word study on "care" and "careful" was enlightening for me as I found these are the cares of the world Jesus spoke of in Mark 4:13-20 that the devil uses to choke the Word out of us so we bear no fruit In this passage Jesus gives us the 5 things the devil uses to choke God's Word out of us... IF we allow these things to enter in, and they are persecution, affliction, cares of this world, lusts of other things, and deceitfulness of riches Leading to how we should cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5) And that the sorrow of this world brings death which is separation from the Lord ((2 Corinthians 7:10-12, and Romans 8:6-7) so feelings of sadness and sorrow need to be cast out. No to mention Godly music moves us to acknowledge and think about the Lord and the wonderful things He has done... while worldly music moves us to think about the darkness and sorrow of this world as those separated from God (the dead) think of. I know things started going far better for me when the Lord convinced me to quit listening to secular music. I can see how one might listen to snippets here and there for melody ideas but as a general rule, secular music is not good for the Christians soul and leads to places Christians should not be in.

"Expired" now there is a word I haven't heard used in regard to death for decades. Not a whole lot of Spurgeon gets recited at funerals I suppose. Perhaps I just don't remember it, but I think I would have remembered that one if it had been used at any of the few thousands of funerals I worked. Do we pray for all individuals? Well, how will I make judgement as to whom not to pray for regarding salvation when my Lord Yeshua upped the ante by stating “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Does that mean I pray only a cursory blanket prayer, a generality, even in the face of specific needs of which I am made aware? No I don't think so. I do gain extra sensitivity brought about by knowledge of a need; and so I do think I do not just share in general nor give, nor pray, only in general, in an abstract form of love of mankind. Instead I find I am led to ways of sharing or giving and praying more directly, to be addressing a specific need for which I have been made aware by God. And so I also do not pray in only a general sense of petitioning before God for people in general.

No one lived a perfect life before God accept Christ, therefore no one can live the Christian life accept Him. But hallelujah - as you have pointed out, Christ live in us! Abiding in Him, the True Vine, is the only way to let this perfect life flow into us and transform us. And I was happy to see that it appears you have equated perfection with love! Not long ago I was struck by the speaking of Jesus, "Therefore Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect." (which you quoted too) This is referring back to Jesus' discussion about what love looks like. I then did a little search in the New Testament and was struck by the number of places where perfection is mentioned along with love!

When Paul wrote Romans 7, he was describing how he dealt with sin prior to being born again. Romans 7:14-20, "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold into slavery under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells within me. For I know that the good does not dwell within me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do the good lies close at hand, but not the ability. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells within me." But he wrote earlier, explaining... "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:4-6 Here he was writing to Christians who were born again. The commandment came when God gave the law to Moses. Paul, writing figuratively, said that prior to that he was "alive" but when sin came, taking advantage of the law, he died (spiritually). I think that you are making a "salad" by mixing Scripture from various places. Bar mitzvah is a ritual that Jewish boys (like myself) that means you can fully participate in the temple services (signified by reading from the torah on that special day). You are no longer a child! Part of Judaism, as is clearly expressed in the various genealogies, is that your character is passed to you via your ancestors (as in Hebrews 7:9-10 and the beginning of the Matthew's gospel and numerous places in the Old Testament). Melchizedek is a clear exception! “Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham as he was returning from defeating the kings and blessed him,” and to him Abraham apportioned “one-tenth of everything.” His name, in the first place, means “king of righteousness”; next, he is also king of Salem, that is, “king of peace.” Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever. See how great he is! Even Abraham the patriarch gave him a tenth of the spoils. And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to collect tithes from the people, that is, from their kindred, though these also are descended from Abraham. But this man, who does not belong to their ancestry [!], collected tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had received the promises. Hebrews 7:1-6 There are things in the Bible that cannot be understood by applying normal logic! Isn't that wonderful?

@DeighAnn Great verses there........

If you worship any of those....that's a problem, if not, it's not. They could tattoo 666 all over you and it wouldn't change a thing. This should help 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Last week, I was visiting a friend in Inkster MI, near Detroit. We saw a white boy who was wearing one of those general lee t-shirt flags and a hitler mustash. We think he must have had a death wish.

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor, for we are members of one another.

NOT OF THE FLESH --- AND YET A WHOLE LOT OF FLESHLY WORDS --- PROVERBS 2:6 FOR THE LORD GIVETH WISDOM -- OUT OF -- HIS MOUTH COMETH KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING --- 2 TIMOTHY 2:7 consider what I say and ---AND THE LORD GIVE THEE UNDERSTANDING IN ALL THINGS--- PROVERBS 21:16 the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding --- shall remain in the congregation of the dead-- JOHN 6:63 it is --THE SPIRIT-- that quickeneth ---**THE FLESH**--- profiteth nothing the words that --I SPEAK-- unto you they are spirit and they are life ACTS 28:27 for the heart of this people is waxed gross and their --- ears are dull of hearing --- and their eyes have they closed --- lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears --- AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART --- and should be converted and --I-- should heal them --- --28:28-- be it known therefore unto you that the salvation of GOD is sent unto the gentiles and that they will hear it --28:29-- and when HE had said these words the jews departed and had great reasoning among themselves --28:30-- and paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house and received all that came unto him --28:31-- preaching the kingdom of GOD and teaching those things which concern ---THE LORD JESUS CHRIST--- WITH ALL CONFIDENCE NO MAN FORBIDDING HIM --- 2 TIMOTHY 3:7 ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth 1 TIMOTHY 2:5 for there is one GOD --- and one mediator between GOD and men --- THE MAN JESUS CHRIST 1 CORINTHIANS 8:5 for though there be that are called gods whether in heaven or in earth as there be gods many and lords many --8:6-- BUT TO US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD THE FATHER OF WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND ---WE IN HIM--- AND ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST --BY WHOM-- ARE ALL THINGS --- AND WE BY HIM --- --8:7-- HOWBEIT THERE IS NOT IN EVERY MAN THAT KNOWLEDGE --- for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol and their conscience being weak is --DEFILED-- 1 PETER 1:23 ---being born again--- not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible ---by the word of GOD--- which liveth and abideth forever JOHN 17:17 sanctify them through thy truth thy word is truth 2 CORINTHIANS 5:18 --and all things-- are of GOD who hath reconciled us to himself by ---JESUS CHRIST--- and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation PROVERBS 17:4 a wicked doer giveth heed to false lips and --A LIAR-- giveth ear to a naughty tongue 1 JOHN 5:10 he that believeth on the SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself he that believeth not GOD ---hath made HIM a liar--- because he believeth not the record that GOD gave of HIS SON --- 2 CORINTHIANS 4:1 therefore seeing we have this ministry as we have received mercy we faint not --4:2-- but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty not walking in craftiness --- nor handling the word of GOD deceitfully --- BUT BY MANIFESTATION OF THE TRUTH --- commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of GOD JOHN 5:34 but I receive --- not testimony from man --- but these things --I-- say that you might be saved LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

And those that have been born again and turned away from the Lord back in living in sin are no longer counted among those in the Body of Christ because they are no longer delivered from the power of darkness. They will need to forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord to be in right standing once again. Most churches don't teach this so many who think they are right with the Lord sadly are not.