Burn a Qu'ran Day...

[nebula]

I really do not want to derail this thread. I bring up the Talmud simply to make a point. Anyone with knowledge of the Talmud and the Jewish religion knows that they reject Christ as the messiah and claim that God has no son as he is the one and only God. We are not talking about a son in the human sense, but in the divine sense as in "Christ is the son of God." I think you know that too Neb. For further info I suggest you join a Jewish message board. I belong to one and they are willing to answer any questions one has.

MG...I apologize for being off topic. As I said, I am only using the Talmudic example to make a point. I know that no Christian would consider burning the Holy books of the Jews...even if they contradict our own beliefs. So logic follows that burning books simply because they do not agree with our point of view is invalid. I appreciate that you are open to differing opinions and are willing to listen to differing points of view.

I don't mind your making a point, but please make your point with accuracies.

Really, the Jews have more reason to hate "the West" than Muslims do.

Making claims that anti-Christian words are written in the Talmud where they are not was one of the many causes "Christians" used to persecute and murder the Jews. I hope you do know this and take it just as serious as you take Christian mistreatment of Muslims.

[nebula]

By the way, has anyone checked outthe webpage for this church?

[nebula]

Show on this thread where I said there are anti Christian words in the Talmud.

You stated the Talmud says God has not son.

I asked you for the quote.

Your reply came back as a dodge.

[fromIslam2Christ]

By the way, has anyone checked outthe webpage for this church?

I just visited it, thanks for the link Neb.

Interesting.

[Matthitjah]

By the way, has anyone checked outthe webpage for this church?

Yeah, the "No Homo Mayor" thing is a little disturbing too. You may be dealing with another Westboro Baptist Church there.

[MorningGlory]

So "God" is interchangeable with "Satan"?

No, 'allah' is interchangeable. 'Allah' is not God. I'm aware of the word's meaning.

Oddly enough there are some Jewish and Christian scholars that would agree with you, if that is in fact what you are proposing. I think Botz explained it well. You said that you use Allah in the historical sense, I'm not sure what you mean by that. From Wiki it states that it's origins is a combination of the article word "al" meaning "the", and "ilah" meaning "deity" or "God". Combined to make "Allah" meaning "the [sole] deity, God".

Historically in the sense that 'allah' is simply a rehash of the ancient moon god. Islam still uses the symbol today (red crescent). Islam is also not a religion; it's a geopolitical movement and it's goal is world domination.

I can find no reference to any Christian or Jewish ideas that suggest "Allah" or the Islamic God is really Satan in disguise any more than any other religion. Would you mind explaining your stance a little more?

This is what I believe.

No, I haven't read it. But I am not totally unfamiliar with Islamic teaching. Not to mention the words themselves are not everything, same in Christianity and Judaism. You have to take into account other factors.

No, I don't. Again, since you haven't read the Qu'ran, you're whistling in the dark.

In Christianity it is known as higher criticism, while I don't know what the counter part is called in Islam, most Islamic scholars accuse terrorists of distorting the true meaning of the Qur'an to harm innocents. I think I gave a good analogous scenario with my Joshua 10 story, and the real life scenario of the slave trade and treatment 'supported' by the Bible a few hundred years ago.

Can you post links to these islamic scholars that accuse terrorists of distorting islam? Can you name any who have denounced terrorism?

Have you actually studied Islam beyond reading the Qur'an through your own religious and cultural bias?

No; why would I?

So you're saying that we Christians (and Jews) used to be so barbaric with our understanding of scripture, and now "we've moved on", yet "there can be no parallels between [scripture]"? These statements seem a little antithetical to one another.

The point is not that Christians and Jews used to be much more violent than they are today; of course they were. The point is that there are no parallels between the Bible and the Talmud's teachings and the total rubbish contained in the Qu'ran.

Just try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. You don't need our version of God, or any God, to have a moral authority. All you need is someone or something to be a moral authority to you, it doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter if it is right or wrong, all that matters is that you perceive it to be a (or the) moral authority. In Islam, their highest moral authority is the Islamic Research Center in al Azhar University which interprets 'the' moral authority, 'God's literal word', the Qur'an.

I look at moral authority through the eyes of a Christian. There's no way I can do anything else. Therefore, since islam is a murderous cult, without any offer of salvation for followers and complete disregard for human life, I see no moral authority; regardless of what they think. There is no morality in them. No one can be an authority on a nonexistent quantity.

[other one]

Whew.... I have just read through the whole thread.

Anyone understand where it is going, or what it has proved?

Please enlighten me.....

Most people don't read well.....

[ladypeartree]

[Botz]

One of the points being made is that concerning the word 'Allah'...however much any one destests it, or tries to negate it by using a small 'a', it does not get away from the fact that the word in modern usage today is not a synonym for Satan, but simply translates as G-d.

Let's see if I can explain the difference. I'm aware that the two words are referring to the same deity among a lot of Arab Christians. Apparently you don't get it either; I am using 'allah' in the historical sense, going back to it's origins, when satan became the islamic 'god'. The two words refer to the same being.

Unfortunately there is sometimes found such hatred for Islam within Christian circles (often evidenced by outright ignorance that wants to have its own way) that it goes beyond the claims of hating the sin, but loving the sinner, and promotes a harsh, brash, uncaring, defiant type of Christianity that is barely indistinguishable from the more extreme elements of those in other camps.

If you can't distinguish between the two then you are very naive. No one mentioned hatred for islam....except all of you muslim apologists. If you want to call someone ignorant just say it outright; don't beat around the bush. Btw, 'ignorant' is defined as 'unknowing'. Have YOU read the Qu'ran?

Firstly I would like to quote a couple of people who I think have brought real clarity to this discussion/argument/exploration.

The first is FromIslam2Christ who said:

"If I were a Muslim today, and sawChristians burning the Qur'an, I would never try to open a Bible to find out what Christianity says."

The second is josh-13 who said:

"It's important to recognize who the true enemy is, we are not fighting against flesh and blood but against Spiritual forces of darkness governing behind this, the second we demonize the individual, the battle is lost. The person is trapped in chains of darkness, Jesus brings life, and He loves them, We are to love them to.

Regarding your understanding of the word "Allah" MG...you did not make it at all clear, simply that you perceived Allah as Satan, if you had qualified it by stating that you saw the Allah of the Qur'an as Satan or a demonic being, then I think there would have been no argument.

As for your remark about me being naive...yep, guilty from time to time, but not in this context.

Then above, you make a completely non-sensical and say:

"No one mentioned hatred for islam....except all of you muslim apologists."

....and yet I read all of the posts thoroughly and if we look back we see you saying on page 6 post 51 that in fact you are the one who certainly does mention hatred for Islam.

We should hate ISLAM, not the poor deluded souls who have one way tickets to hell as long as they follow 'allah, a.k.a, satan. Btw, I doubt you worshipped another 'god' so it's probably not exactly the same. As for me, I have ALWAYS been a Christian; I just wasn't the kind that our Lord wanted.

Don't you know what you have written

To call me a muslim apologist consolidates the ignorance you seem intent on exposing.

Yes I have read the Qur'an....not all of it, but significant sections, and studied in depth certain passages.

What I find disconcerting, is that you start a thread with a statement to your title:

Burn a Qu'ran Day... what do y'all think of this?...."Personally, I approve of this idea.......taking it to the enemy in an 'in your face' way is the epitome of what it means to be an American. The Qu'ran is satanic in origin and the more they burn the better. Doesn't the Bible promote the destruction of idols? And....it doesn't remotely compare to what they (muslims) do to Christians, Jews, Hindus or anyone else who refuses to worship their 'allah', a.k.a. satan.

and later when the froth and bubbles have been blown away, you now come to the conclusion (circuitous or otherwise) that what you seemed to thoroughly endorse is no longer valid....weird!

[just_abc]

hi Morning Glory

Firstly I would like to say thank you for being willing to consider views from others including us non-americans.

Secondly I want to say thank you for re-considering your initial view regarding this issue. I think it is often not easy to change one's view at times. But you were willing to do so. So I thank you for that.

I don't want you to feel jumped on here sis. So please forgive me if my words in this thread are too strong. But this issue is potentially a very serious issue. It is something that might cause a lot of difficulties to some / many Christians outside the USA. It is something that might possibly cause a lot of harm. So I think many people are concerned. Please don't misunderstand.

But I want to say thank you again - for reconsidering your initial stance and for changing your mind.

Thank you.