Sevenseas Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2012 what a way to ruin an otherwise good thread...why don't you guys take it to a pm? yeah I mean it.... you are demonstrating the opposite of what some are trying to accomplish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 There's something wrong if our prayers don't ever accomplish anything right? Not necessarily. God sees time differently than we do, and it might simply be that its not time on His schedule for what you are praying for to happen yet. I know people who have prayed for things like the salvation of a loved one, or change in life situation that didn't happen until years later -- but they kept praying nonetheless. i stand by my guns... if you NEVER see a result from your prayers something's wrong. Okay. I wasn't attacking you, so there's no need for guns. May I ask your definition of "never?" With all due respect, What does this have to do with my op and question? Please keep this thread on topic, or start a thread on your topic to further discuss your points of view. Thank you for your time and may God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't think you are looking at it too hard. I see your question as actually digging deeper into what the word says. On the surface, the words tell us to follow scripture instead of our natural instinct in matters, which are at odds many times. Looking at this a little deeper, it is also telling me not to use scripture to back what I want it to say, but instead, allow scripture to change my beliefs to be on accordance to what it is really saying. Scripture is alive! I can read the same passages over and over and find new ways to apply the meaning to my life. I am trusting the Holy Spirit to teach me each time. Thank you for your response. I keep having the thought, the early church ( the first church ) leaned on the Living Word, where as we lean on the written word. There understanding came from the Living Word, our understanding comes from our interupitation of the written word. Big difference I think, and maybe somewhere in that is the answer I'm looking for????? Yes, the problem arises when it is our interpretation of scripture. We are not to lean on our own understanding, which is what interpretation is. Instead, we should allow Him to use His words to guide us and teach us. This is a hard concept to include into ones life these days because we are told to always think things through and decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. I prefer to allow His Spirit to guide me and leave myself out of the equation. This is not always my end result, but it is how I try to approach issues and questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't think you are looking at it too hard. I see your question as actually digging deeper into what the word says. On the surface, the words tell us to follow scripture instead of our natural instinct in matters, which are at odds many times. Looking at this a little deeper, it is also telling me not to use scripture to back what I want it to say, but instead, allow scripture to change my beliefs to be on accordance to what it is really saying. Scripture is alive! I can read the same passages over and over and find new ways to apply the meaning to my life. I am trusting the Holy Spirit to teach me each time. Thank you for your response. I keep having the thought, the early church ( the first church ) leaned on the Living Word, where as we lean on the written word. There understanding came from the Living Word, our understanding comes from our interupitation of the written word. Big difference I think, and maybe somewhere in that is the answer I'm looking for????? Yes, the problem arises when it is our interpretation of scripture. We are not to lean on our own understanding, which is what interpretation is. Instead, we should allow Him to use His words to guide us and teach us. This is a hard concept to include into ones life these days because we are told to always think things through and decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. I prefer to allow His Spirit to guide me and leave myself out of the equation. This is not always my end result, but it is how I try to approach issues and questions. I agree I think it is a hard concept to keep in practice. it just seems so forgotten these days. I think I'll be seeking God over this for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thank you to everyone for the responses. Let me clarify alittle. The first church was of one mind. They were unified. One Doctrine, one Spirit. They trusted God for there understanding. This is not the case today. Almost every believer I have ever known would say they didn't lean to there own understanding, because the believed the word of God, the bible. That the bible was there source along with prayer and seeking God, so how could they be leaning on there own understanding. But when people read the word, who interputs it? Who decides what it means? If we in our own heads, in our own minds decide what it means, then are we leaning to our own understanding? The only alternative would be to blindly accept the interpretation of someone else - maybe a pastor or other leader. We should know about the pitfalls of doing that. It would do no good to be of one mind if the conclusion was wrong. No, we are to study the Holy Bible for ourselves and ask God to help us. If we are fortunate, we will have a good pastor and Bible-teaching local assembly to help us. This would still not do away with the need for us to study God's Word for ourselves. We must search the Scriptures like the noble Bereans and see if what we've been told is the truth. Many Bible truths are simple and self-evident - some easy enough for children to understand. Regardless, we have no excuse for failure to study God's Word for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thank you to everyone for the responses. Let me clarify alittle. The first church was of one mind. They were unified. One Doctrine, one Spirit. They trusted God for there understanding. This is not the case today. Almost every believer I have ever known would say they didn't lean to there own understanding, because the believed the word of God, the bible. That the bible was there source along with prayer and seeking God, so how could they be leaning on there own understanding. But when people read the word, who interputs it? Who decides what it means? If we in our own heads, in our own minds decide what it means, then are we leaning to our own understanding? The only alternative would be to blindly accept the interpretation of someone else - maybe a pastor or other leader. We should know about the pitfalls of doing that. It would do no good to be of one mind if the conclusion was wrong. No, we are to study the Holy Bible for ourselves and ask God to help us. If we are fortunate, we will have a good pastor and Bible-teaching local assembly to help us. This would still not do away with the need for us to study God's Word for ourselves. We must search the Scriptures like the noble Bereans and see if what we've been told is the truth. Many Bible truths are simple and self-evident - some easy enough for children to understand. Regardless, we have no excuse for failure to study God's Word for ourselves. Fair enough, but where does the interupitation of that study come from, what is the source of the understanding? because if we decide what it means, if it's our understanding of what the bible says, then we are in violation of the very word we are seeking to understand. lean not to our own understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thank you to everyone for the responses. Let me clarify alittle. The first church was of one mind. They were unified. One Doctrine, one Spirit. They trusted God for there understanding. This is not the case today. Almost every believer I have ever known would say they didn't lean to there own understanding, because the believed the word of God, the bible. That the bible was there source along with prayer and seeking God, so how could they be leaning on there own understanding. But when people read the word, who interputs it? Who decides what it means? If we in our own heads, in our own minds decide what it means, then are we leaning to our own understanding? The only alternative would be to blindly accept the interpretation of someone else - maybe a pastor or other leader. We should know about the pitfalls of doing that. It would do no good to be of one mind if the conclusion was wrong. No, we are to study the Holy Bible for ourselves and ask God to help us. If we are fortunate, we will have a good pastor and Bible-teaching local assembly to help us. This would still not do away with the need for us to study God's Word for ourselves. We must search the Scriptures like the noble Bereans and see if what we've been told is the truth. Many Bible truths are simple and self-evident - some easy enough for children to understand. Regardless, we have no excuse for failure to study God's Word for ourselves. Fair enough, but where does the interupitation of that study come from, what is the source of the understanding? because if we decide what it means, if it's our understanding of what the bible says, then we are in violation of the very word we are seeking to understand. lean not to our own understanding. Carrying your line of thinking to the extreme would mean that nobody could interpret the Holy Bible. I've stated in every post that we should start our Bible studies with prayer - asking God to help us in understanding. Interpretation in an ideal manner would involve spiritual understanding with the help of the Holy Spirit, so the source would be God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted October 9, 2012 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 NASB 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,856 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2012 If you could trust people to interpret the Bible completely correctly, we would not have 30,000 different detonations. Who would we actually trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted October 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 NChrist, Let me rephrase my question in my OP. What does it mean to lean to your own understanding? If we read and study the word as we all should, and we decide what the meaning of the word we are reading is, in our own head, are we not leaning to our own understanding? Shouldn't all our understanding of what the word says come directly from God? If it doesn't is that leaning to our own understanding? Are we really ready to say that the doctrine we speak came directly out of the mouth of God? Yes there are people at different levels of growth, but shouldn't we all agree with the simple basics if all of us are recieving the understanding from God? P.S. I forgot to put this in previous post, sorry. Thank you for taking the time to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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