The Day of the Lord, will the church be raptured?

[Salty]

 

Salty

 

The Hebrew word shal-vaw is used for peace in Dan.8:25, which is used for the ideas of prosperity, peace, abundance, quiteness in other Scriptures.

 

 

That's the NASB Translation

 

For full translations 

 

Strong's Concordance

shalvah: quietness, ease

Original Word: שַׁלְוָה

Part of Speech: Noun Feminine

Transliteration: shalvah

Phonetic Spelling: (shal-vaw')

Short Definition: ease

 

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin

from shalah

Definition

quietness, ease

 

Brown-Driver-Briggs

שַׁלְוָה noun feminine quietness, ease; — absolute ׳שׁ Psalm 122:7 +; construct שַׁלְוִת Ezekiel 16:49; Proverbs 1:32; plural suffix שַׁלְוֺתַ֫יִךְ Jeremiah 22:21(שַׁלְוָתֵךְ Vrss Gie); — quietnees, peace, Proverbs 17:1 (opposed to רִיב), Psalm 122:7, ("" שָׁלוֺם); ease, careless security, Ezekiel 16:49 (שַׁלְוַת הַשְׁקֵט), Proverbs 1:32; prosperity, Jeremiah 22:21; Daniel 8:25; Daniel 11:21,24; ׳בְּ in (time of) security (of sudden attack), if not unawares (Thes Ew Hi Ke and others); compare  literally out of quiet, i.e. suddenly, unawares (e.g. 1 Macc 1:30 = ἐξάπινα), מִן שִׁלְיָא ᵑ7 Proverbs 3:25; Proverbs 6:15 ( = מִּתְאֹם), Psalm 30:7 see [ שָׁ֫לוּ]. Above

 

Your attempt clearly does not diminish my position that  Daniel is telling us that he will destroy many while self-confident 

 

"He will lift himself up in his own heart and be at ease; he shall destroy many."

 

But Dan.8:25 is not the last word on the matter, Christ's Olivet Discourse and His Revelation directly relate also, as does Apostle Paul's "Peace and safety" the deceived will be saying for the tribulation.

 

So once again, as on many threads on forums like these, those who try to slice and dice Scripture to make it mean something entirely different than God's Word as whole declares, are shown to be faulty and lacking in their understanding.

 

 

Thats not what I asked you, I want to run your theory against Isaiah 10:6-15

 

Isaiah 10:6-15English Standard Version (ESV)

6 Against a godless nation I send him,

    and against the people of my wrath I command him,

to take spoil and seize plunder,

    and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

7 But he does not so intend,

    and his heart does not so think;

but it is in his heart to destroy,

    and to cut off nations not a few;

8 for he says:

“Are not my commanders all kings?

9 Is not Calno like Carchemish?

    Is not Hamath like Arpad?

    Is not Samaria like Damascus?

10 As my hand has reached to the kingdoms of the idols,

    whose carved images were greater than those of Jerusalem and Samaria,

11 shall I not do to Jerusalem and her idols

    as I have done to Samaria and her images?”

12 When the Lord has finished all his work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, he[a] will punish the speech of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the boastful look in his eyes. 13 For he says:

“By the strength of my hand I have done it,

    and by my wisdom, for I have understanding;

I remove the boundaries of peoples,

    and plunder their treasures;

    like a bull I bring down those who sit on thrones.

14 My hand has found like a nest

    the wealth of the peoples;

and as one gathers eggs that have been forsaken,

    so I have gathered all the earth;

and there was none that moved a wing

    or opened the mouth or chirped.”

15 Shall the axe boast over him who hews with it,

    or the saw magnify itself against him who wields it?

As if a rod should wield him who lifts it,

    or as if a staff should lift him who is not wood!

 

 

 

Sure...

 

Keep trying. Maybe you'll eventually get to Revelation if you post enough.

[Salty]

Salty,

 

The how is right there in front of you. He is to exalt himself in place of God, to be worshiped as God, and by that will destroy many, which is about spiritual destruction through deception, not physical destruction. 

 

 

Again for the 3rd time prove your theory against Isaiah 10:6-15

 

See you conclude the destroy by many is about spiritual destruction yet we see in daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: yet we see in Isaiah God gives the Antichrist permission to do the following:

 

to take spoil and seize plunder

to tread them down like the mire of the streets

 

Seems pretty physical to me

 

If you actually would read all of Isa.10, you would have realized that it shows "the Assyrian" stopping just north of Jerusalem. God never gave any king of Assyria to conquer Jerusalem. It was Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon that He gave to do that in those times.

[Salty]

Salty

 

Please pay attention, you said the following

 

The how is right there in front of you. He is to exalt himself in place of God, to be worshiped as God, and by that will destroy many, which is about spiritual destruction through deception, not physical destruction. 

 

 

I find it interesting how all other scriptures you've posted, you have always attached a double fulfillment to them yet with Isa 10:6-15 you refuse to. Lets pick and choose right?

 

In the deeper analysis, the things conveyed by Daniel and Isaiah concerning the anti-Christ's intrusions into nations are the maneuvering's of a Tyrannosaurus Rex. Such a beast does not require a peace deal to capture its victims, but overwhelms them by war and yes by politics, but the politics are ultimatums accept my rule or die...so for your notion of no physical destruction, is complete nonsense, 

 

No, I actually believe the coming Antichrist will come upon Jerusalem out of the north, like the king of Assyria did upon Jerusalem per Isaiah 10. Yet I also believe the reason why that Assyrian didn't conquer Jerusalem there is to show how God will destroy the Gog/Magog armies that come out the north upon Israel on the last day.

 

I realize what you're pointing with the movements in the Dan.11 chapter. It's still too early to know for certain what all those movements are about, though we can find historical parallels that seem to fit already (like Antiochus). But the parts of Dan.11 that we should know for certain, are the parallels our Lord Jesus attached to them in His Olivet Discourse and in His Book of Revelation.

 

In Daniel, and Ezekiel, our Heavenly Father does not explicitly show us what event it is that will worry the Antichrist to seek to destroy Israel in final. But in other Scripture I think He points to it, which is not about physical armies in war, but he and his kingdom being bruised by the bruisers (Chittim means what? remember Gen.3 prophecy about the bruising of the head of the serpent). I think it easy to misinterpret events that use the idea of war as physical while forgetting that the main war for the tribulation timing is about spiritual warfare through deception.

 

Does that mean that spiritual warfare can't be literal or physical? No, but there is a difference our Lord Jesus showed us about it, for His servants that remain faithful will not fight the beast with physical weapons of literal war, but with the Power of The Holy Spirit by their Testimony for Christ (Mark 13:9-13). Like He showed in Rev.13:8, all that dwell upon the earth in that time will worship the dragon, except those in Christ who have their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

 

 

 

So like Jesus showed in Rev.13, who is like the beast? who can make war with him? This is why He also showed in Rev.13:10 that those in that time that kill with the sword must be killed with the sword. That reveals some will try... to fight that beast and dragon, but will not be able to win.

[Salty]

Salty

 

No, I actually believe the coming Antichrist will come upon Jerusalem out of the north,

 

 

That's a bit of a turn around

 

Not a turn around, only a consideration of how God often uses events in OT history to point to future events, like He did with linking the Book of Daniel events with the events of the last days in His Revelation, even with the idea of an idol abomination setup as per Rev.13...

 

Rev.13:15

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

Come to think of it, that kind of thing happened once before in Daniel's days, didn't it? And a similar thing happened in Jerusalem in 165 B.C. by Antiochus IV, didn't it? God reveals historical events used as patterns for future prophecy in His Word, for those who pay attention. No new thing under the sun, like Solomon said. Apostle Paul said the same kind of thing too, didn't he? Yes, in 2 Cor.11 about the OT events serving as "ensamples" for those upon whom the ends of the world have come.

[WailingWall]

When the 1Cor.15 event happens, is there even one scripture that says we are headed for heaven?

[Salty]

When the 1Cor.15 event happens, is there even one scripture that says we are headed for heaven?

 

Partially yes. But most don't understand how the heavenly is going to be revealed directly on earth at that time also. So the real question is, where will the heavenly be at that event when all alive on earth are changed at the twinkling of an eye per 1 Cor.15 and Isaiah 25?

 

Ans: the heavenly will be revealed both on earth, and in Heaven. It simply means the vail cast over all peoples caused by our flesh existence will be unveiled at a moment, at the twinkling of an eye. The earth remains, but we will be in the heavenly dimension while upon... the earth.

 

It will be similar to this...

 

2 Kings 6

¹⁵ And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, "Alas, my master! how shall we do?"

¹⁶ And he answered, "Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them."

¹⁷ And Elisha prayed, and said, "Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see." And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

 

Right now we cannot see into the heavenly, though it is all around us, even here on earth. It's simply another dimension that God has sets bounds upon us on earth for this present world. At Christ's second coming, that bounds will be removed, and all will see, because we will cast off these flesh bodies at that moment, and see in our spiritual body.

[iamlamad]

When the 1Cor.15 event happens, is there even one scripture that says we are headed for heaven?

You can take Salty's answer or you can just go read John 14.

 

14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

² In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

There are actually two versions of this passage: the one written, where Jesus has gone to prepare mansions for us, and will come and get us and take us back to those mansions. There there is this one that some imagine is truth, but is not:

 

14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

² In my Father's house [in heaven]  are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven] .

³ And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to earth], and receive you unto myself [on earth]; that where I am [on earth], there [on earth] ye may be also.

 

Now, which of these two makes the most sense? In the typical Jewish wedding, the groom went to prepare a place for them to live. when he was finished, he could come back and get his bride and take her to the place he had prepared. Some really believe that Jesus has spent 2000 year preparing mansions and will come and stay here and leave us here. It is silly, and does not fit scripture. The bride MUST BE in heaven at the start of Rev. 19, for the marriage and supper. Some imagine [incorrectly] that the marriage and supper will take place on earth. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The marriage will be in heaven exactly as John wrote it. NO ONE will be there in their resurrected body for that wedding except those who were raptured in Paul's pretrib rapture and those saints that are killed during the 70th week.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

What's kind of funny, is how lamad thinks he's disagreeing with me, when he actually has agreed to what I showed in my post when he wrote this...

 

 

^"3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again [to earth], and receive you unto myself [on earth]; that where I am [on earth], there [on earth] ye may be also."

 

 

The heavenly will be revealed to all peoples, right here on this earth. This is where Jesus is coming to, and where He will gather us, to the area on earth in the holy land, which is where His Millennial temple will be established, with its "mansions" (abodes), which is about the abodes of the priests who will reign with Him.

 

Right now our Lord Jesus is preparing those mansions for us in... Heaven. But at His coming those will be on earth within the Holy City of Ezekiel 40 forward.

[Guest]

The heavenly will be revealed to all peoples, right here on this earth. This is where Jesus is coming to, and where He will gather us, to the area on earth in the holy land, which is where His Millennial temple will be established, with its "mansions" (abodes), which is about the abodes of the priests who will reign with Him.

 

Right now our Lord Jesus is preparing those mansions for us in... Heaven. But at His coming those will be on earth within the Holy City of Ezekiel 40 forward.

 

~

 

Interesting

 

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-6

 

And Yet The Cosmos Will Flee

 

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:7-11

 

And The New Jerusalem Will Descend

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

 

And All God's Children

 

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

 

Will Rejoice

 

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

 

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5

[Salty]

 

The heavenly will be revealed to all peoples, right here on this earth. This is where Jesus is coming to, and where He will gather us, to the area on earth in the holy land, which is where His Millennial temple will be established, with its "mansions" (abodes), which is about the abodes of the priests who will reign with Him.

 

Right now our Lord Jesus is preparing those mansions for us in... Heaven. But at His coming those will be on earth within the Holy City of Ezekiel 40 forward.

 

~

 

Interesting

 

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-6

 

And Yet The Cosmos Will Flee

 

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:7-11

 

And The New Jerusalem Will Descend

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

 

And All God's Children

 

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

 

Will Rejoice

 

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

 

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5

 

 

But you failed to quote anything... from the Ezekiel 40 through 48 Scripture, so you've left a lot out.