Women in authority

[Qnts2]

In Rom. 16:7 Paul says - 

Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners,...

I think it is obvious that Junia is a man.

 

Greek male names always end with an 'S'. So, Junia would not be a masculine name. Junia has to be a female. Andronicus is a masculine name.

 

If we had the original Greek, it would be simple to figure out, but the debate has to be whether the name is Junia. If it is, Junia is a woman.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Everyone.....

     In referencing Andronicus & Junia,most Greek manuscripts do say Junia,,,,which is female,very few texts said  Junias      In reading the Greek texts,the way it is worded (episemos en)says that this couple are "well known" amongst the apostles,he does  not say they were apostles........they had a good reputation with the apostles.......

                                                            With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Littlelambseativy]

To the original post (for some reason, my "Quote" is not quoting.

 

Here is a little bit of HISTORY surrounding that verse, and I hope it will help most of you understand the passage a little better.

 

 

1)

First, you must go back to the Temple in Jerusalem.

 

The Temple, as you know, was built with the Holy of Holies.  Only the High Priest could enter.  Then there was the Inner Courts.  Only the priests and the Jewish MEN could be there.  Then there was the Outer Court.  This is where the Gentiles and the women would be.  So, considering this, it is easy to understand that, being so far away, women were not as well-versed in the Scripture or the deeper understandings of man.

 

 

2)

Fast forward to the Church

 

However, when Grace came, women are now allowed into the Throne Room of Prayer (no longer that physical Temple).  So, women were in Church and because they didn't have the knowledge that the men had, they were blutting things out, like 'Honey!  What is he talking about?" or "What does that mean dear" (you get what I'm trying to say).  Ultimately, this was causing a DISTURBANCE, and it obviously agitated Paul.  So, Paul told them to SIT IN SILENCE and ASK THEIR QUESTIONS AT HOME.

 

 

OK.  That part is easy to understand.  The position of power is a little harder to explain.

 

 

 

a)

Really, there is only one point - THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

 

Eve was Adams HELP MATE.  Made for him, yes, but his equal.  But because of her tempting him to eat the fruit, she was "demoted" and he was made master.  This is the will of God from then until He fulfills all things.  Let no man tell you that this is not so.  If it were not so, then the earth will no longer resist us trying to grow crops, and the woman will no longer have pain in child birth, and the snake will grow legs to walk or wings to fly.

 

THESE ARE OUR PUNISHMENTS.

 

The woman is subject to the man.  It is part of her punishment.  But, as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end, and in the end, man will not be her head, but God will be the head of all His people.  So, for now, do as you must.  Know your role and both man and woman ... and seek the coming of our Lord.

 

 

So, in this regard, I share Pauls message.  I suffer no woman to rule over me.  She cannot raise of lead a man.  She can "manage assets" ... such as managers do.  But she cannot think as a man, and a man following a woman is a rare thing (not talking about following orders or doing what your boss says).

 

This does not mean there are not some powerful women of God.  There are.  Powerful in their supporting roles.

OOPs I have the whole post - Women cannot enter the Throne Room - We have a High Priest - Jesus who enters and pleads the cause for us - taking our prayer before the Father.

[chloe_fantastic]

Women cannot enter the Throne Room

 

Then would this verse only be addressed to men, to the exclusion of women?

 

Hebrews 4:16

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

[Littlelambseativy]

Chloe you are correct and I must correct myself. I was tired and was thinking the temple and not the the throne room of the Father. 

Jesus is our High Priest and He takes our petitions to the Father that is why we pray in Jesus name. 

All priests - Levites - were men and only they could enter the Holy of Holies. When Paul talks of elders he specifically says they should be men with one wife, not women with one husband. As deacons I can see women to serve which is what Jesus had - those women who followed Jesus served they were not chosen by Him to lead.

[saved34]

I would like to add to the discussion that women can "preach" the Gospel. In fact, they are commanded to just like men. They can lead men to Christ, they can witness for Christ, they have the gifts of the Spirit that help build up the body of Christ. They are vital parts of the Universal Church. They are just forbidden to lead a local congregation and especially in the marriage home. Instructions (or teaching) to the whole Church should be done by an Elder who is a male. In the field of the world, there is no such restraints upon the women of God. We all shine as lights (men and women in Christ) in the midst of this crooked world. For a woman not to share the Gospel would be a tragedy. 

[enoob57]

It is what the Scripture teaches ...

[Littlelambseativy]

 saved34, enob57,  with that I agree.

[missmuffet]

Yet, man is to be head over his wife as Christ is head over the man.

I understand how things have changed in today's society with man abrogating  authority to the woman by his absence in the home - but should this apply to the church? or do we follow the institution as ordained by God. I understand that there may not be willing men to be elders in the church and that women take their place but is that acceptable to God? I don't think so - His word stands firm not to be changed by man.

I agree Littlelamb.The scriptures do not teach this.

[Trumpet cry]

1 Cor. 14: 34-35 - "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted to them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for a women to speak in the church.

 

1st Timothy 2:12 - " Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authrity over the man, but to be in silence."

 

 

First off, God is NOT a respector of persons. Deut. 10:17, 2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chron. 19:7; Job 34:19, Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11; Gal. 2:6; Eph. 6: 9; Col. 3: 25; and 1 Peter 1: 17

 

God also states that in the mouth of two or three witnesses that all truth is established. Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6 and 19:15; John 8: 17; 2 Cor. 13:1; and Heb 10:28. Therefore, the fact that God is not a respector of persons is a true fact concerning God's character. Once this fact is established, then the remaining logic should become clear.

 

The capstone for God not being a respector of persons is given to us in James 2: 1-4, showing that if we are respectors of persons we are guilty of sin. How much more would God then be guilty who has passed the moral laws of His government to us. Paul confirms this "no respector of persons" fact in Gal. 3:28.

 

If the 1Cor. 14:34-35 and 1Tim. 2:11-12 scriptures are to be read exactly as some on here interpret them, then we can draw the following simple and logical conclusions:

 

a) It would be a sin for a woman to say ANYTHING while in church. She could not speak to her children for correction, nor answer any questions from them or her husband.

b) It would be a sin for a woman to testify of God's glory and works, which also contradicts many scriptures.

c) It would be a sin for a woman to sing and praise the Lord in church, which also contradicts scripture.

d) All movements of a woman could be reduced to walking into the church, sitting down, breathing, standing up and walking out of the church.

 

In Genesis 3:16 we find that the husband will rule over the wife. Rule in this sense means to preside over, to stand before, lead, consider and go before. Rule is also used in a military or governmental way, which would not apply to the husband-wife relationship.

 

Many people run to Eph. 5:22 to get wives to submit to their husbands. It is true that they must submit. Submit means to place oneself under voluntarily. In the family structure, the husband is to be the head or protector of the family. Not as a king or ruler, but as v.25 shows, he must LOVE HIS WIFE AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT. When we read "wife submit" along with "husband love as Christ loved", then the sting of the "lowly woman" is removed, and we see an equal responsibility between the husband and wife to love and submit to each other. V. 21 explains that in the body of Christ we are all to submit one to another in the fear of the Lord.

 

If you are using the 1Cor. and 1Tim. scriptures to stop a woman from teaching or holding church office or a position of pastoring yet allowing women to sing, pray, praise, testify, teach children in Sunday school and vote and be involved in church election discussions, then where in the Bible can you support women doing any of these things? If these scriptures are used by one to support an arguement against women ministering or teaching as absolute and final, then it is a clear case of wrestling scripture to suit their own selfishness. 

 

In ICor. 12: 8-10, we find nine Supernatural Gifts of the Holy Spirit listed and divided by the Holy Spirit as He wills (v. 11). No place does it say that a woman can not operate these gifts for all to profit (v.7).  One of the gifts is prophecy. In 1Cor. 11:5 we find that a woman CAN prophesy. In Acts 21:9, we see that Philip the Evangelist had four daughters that prophesied. 1 Cor. 14:31 tells us that "all may prophesy ". This doesn't differentiate between man or woman. Certainly if these gifts were NOT to be used by women, then the Holy Spirit would have said so and listed the proper punishment for women operating in these gifts.