Revelation 13

[iamlamad]

Defending the name wrote,

What The Lord has shown me is that after the church is martyred by the beast of the bottomless Pitt, and before the time when God unleashing his wrath upon the inhabitants of earth, the remaining Christians who God chooses to remain, will be physically in their flesh bodies be taken to a secret location on earth by Holy Angels. I seen these glass dormitories that become the protective chambers for this last remaining,

 

Let's compare this theory with scripture. I will agree that much of the church LEFT BEHIND at the pretrib rapture will be martyred. Daniel and John tell us this. However, we see in Revelation that no one can separate God's wrath from the murdering of the saints, because they happen at the same time. While the killing machine of the Beast (His armies hunting down all who refuse the mark) is in full swing, at its very peak, God begins to slow it down by the vials of His wrath. He will use the vials (and associated plagues) to SHORTEN those days of great tribulation. There will be NO TIME during the 70th week and God is not angry with an unrepentant world.

 

if you think God showed you hiding places, we can only say, show us in scripture. I don't think the scripture in Isaiah fits, for Isaiah ties it to the time of the dead rising, which is rapture time.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

Defending the Name wrote,

Notice these last die hards are the last remaining Christians and faithful Jews in Christ who fight it out to the bitter end, before the brilliant coming do The Lord ends the first earth and the first heaven and translates them into their heavenly place.

 

Again I see a problem. Go back and read again, the first heaven and earth are STILL AROUND for another 1000 plus years after Jesus coming and the battle of Armageddon are faught.  It seems you are over a thousand years off.

 

LAMAD

[Defending the Name]

LAMAD this is where we disagree.

Who is the women mentioned in:

Revelation 17:3

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The scarlet coloured beast is the colours of all nations, which is the modern world we have come to live in and the colourful flags that each country represents.

Mystery Babylon has influence over all of them, so she must be the second beast who is lamb like, meaning Christian in appearance who influences the kings of the multicoloured flagged (scarlet) nations of the world. Therefore the second beast who is mystery Babylon must be a religious / political system, which is an offshoot of the original pharisaical Babylon religious system that fell in 70AD, as declared in Rev. 14:8.

Babylon is the first beast that came out of the sea of peoples that is the cradle of civilisation in the Middle Eastern region and mystery Babylon the great, is the second beast that originated from earth, which implies that it expanded into other continents of the world.

Mystery Babylon must be a Judaic Christian enterprise which gives life to the first beast and starts off where the first beast had left of from, when he received the head wound back in 70AD. After all the second beast carries the first beast's original mark and forces the whole discovered world to worship the first beast that had the head sound in 70 AD.

Remember that mystery Babylon the great is said to be in the wilderness and the expanse of the discovered world, where as Babylon is the situated where the sea of people originated from as far as Genesis creation is concerned.

The distinction is made by the following verse:

Revelation 16:19

And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

The cities of the nations fell, because these cities of all the nations of the discovered continents are the symbol of the scarlet coloured beast. If you look at Babylon the first beast, it falls immediately after the successive three angel messages are declared and happened at the time the everlasting gospel went out into the gentile nations of the world.

Revelation 14:6-8

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

These are sequential and successive angel declarations that must be tied in context of the generation that they impacted greatly. Jesus stated this generation shall not pass away until all is fulfilled is to those who lived in the first century leading up to the destruction of Babylon on 70AD.

You need to understand that the Babylon mentioned in chapter 14 is the original beast, whereas the mystery Babylon the great mentioned in chapters 11,16,17 and 18 is the second beast.

How do you differentiate between the battle of Armageddon and the battle of God and Magog?

Revelation chapter 20 is a summary of events from the time of the fall of the first beast Babylon to the time of the fall of the second beast mystery Babylon the great.

Look at the chronology of events in the chapter:

1) Revelation 20:1

​ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

(I believe that this Angel is The Lord who has the key to sentence anyone to hell. Rev. 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.)

2) Revelation 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

(Beginning of Satan's symbolic thousand years imprisonment.)

3) Revelation 20:3

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

(Satan is prevented from deceiving the nations.)

4) Revelation 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

(The Heavenly Kingdom is established (Daniel 2:44) and the way the people who sit on these thrones with Christ are the souls of the deceased who had died for the witness of Jesus (New Covenant) and for the word of God (Old covenant) who have passed from the earthly life and they have been resurrected into their heavenly bodies . This is the reign of Christ in the heavenly tabernacle in context to the resurrection of the dead, because those that sit on the thrones with Christ have entered in through the first resurrection. So the thousand year reign of Christ is to those who have entered in through the resurrection as they were originally portrayed as those who had been killed in The Lord.)

5) Revelation 20:5-6

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(The context of the thousand year reign is the first resurrection, this therefore rules our any millennium reign of Christ on earth. It clearly describes that the thousand years encompasses the first resurrection.)

6) Revelation 20:7

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

(Satan is released towards the end of the first resurrection (the great harvest) that encompasses the heavenly millennium reign.)

7) Revelation 20:8

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

(Now Satan can come into the world again as the little horn and deceive the whole world which is mystery Babylon the great to gather them to battle for the last and final time. Remembering the first time when he gave power to the first beast, his beast and prophet enterprise was destroyed in 70AD which led to his imprisonment.)

8) Revelation 20:9

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Satan as the beast of the bottomless Pitt aka man of sin, now perpetrates a world wide Calvary of the witnesses of Jesus which are symbolised as the camp of the saints and the beloved spiritual city that is of his body. After satan kills martyrs the countless symbolic two witnesses who hold the testimony if Jesus, then God unleashes fire from heaven which signal the judgement vials and woes on the remaining inhabitants of earth.)

9) Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

(Remembering that the first beast and prophet were cast in the lake of fire and satan was imprisoned, when the first beast Babylon fell in 70AD. Thus time around at the end if the symbolic millennium, Satan gets served the same fate as the original first beast by being cast in the lake of fire along with the second beast mystery Babylon the great. Where the beast and the prophet represent a false religion and political system.)

10) Revelation 20:11

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

(At this point there is no more earth or heaven because they have all been dissolved by the judgement vials. At this point The Lord as the seventh angel would have sounded the seventh trumpet and declared time no longer.)

11) Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Everyone has died and the only living Re those who have put on their heavenly spirit bodies in the ark of protection, heavenly New Jerusalem.)

The battle of Armageddon is the battle of Gog and Magog.

This is the truth in the matter whether people want to accept it or not.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Defending the Name

[other one]

451 posts in any thread is a sign that something is wrong somewhere.

[Defending the Name]

451 posts in any thread is a sign that something is wrong somewhere.

I agree.

[iamlamad]

 

451 posts in any thread is a sign that something is wrong somewhere.

I agree.

 

Yes, it is a sign that no one agrees with anyone else.

[iamlamad]

Defending the Name wrote,

 

LAMAD this is where we disagree.

Who is the women mentioned in:

Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

 

We don't have to even guess at this, for John TELLS us the woman is "that great city," and previously has told us the the "great city" is Jerusalem. So the great WH**E Babylon is the city of Jerusalem, during the time that the Beast and False Prophet is deceiving the ENTIRE WORLD from there. It will be the worst deception EVER on this earth. It is no wonder then, with such a great level of deception coming straight from Jerusalem, that God calls the city mystery "Babylon the Great."

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

Defending the name wrote,

5) Revelation 20:5-6
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(The context of the thousand year reign is the first resurrection, this therefore rules our any millennium reign of Christ on earth. It clearly describes that the thousand years encompasses the first resurrection.)

6) Revelation 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

You come up with the strangest theories about these verses. First WHO SAID the 1000 years is "symbolic?" God certainly never said that. Has the last 6000 years been "symbolic?" No, of course they have been VERY REAL. So will the next 1000 years be VERY REAL. Trying to make something symbolic that makes perfect sense as written will always end up with nonsense.

 

In context, the first verses of chapter 20 speak of the resurrection of the righteous, from the Old Testament through the church age and including the 70th week. Jesus has at this time returned to the earth and the battle of Armageddon is OVER. Jesus will have WON. (Rev. 19) So John tells us that there are only TWO resurrections; one for the just, and one for the sinner. The righteous resurrection will come first. The second resurrection (second death) will not come until AFTER the 1000 years. These will be REAL years, so 1000 times this earth will travel its route around the sun.

 

When John says, when the thousand years are expired, that is exactly what he means; Jesus will have been reigning on earth for 1000 years. There are simply NO WORDS in this passage that even hint that there cannot be 1000 years of Christ reigning on earth, for this is TRUTH. It has been church doctrine from the beginning of the church. It has been Jewish doctrine for centuries before that.  Yes, the context is the first resurrection, the resurrection for all the righteous. JESUS was the first, then the church will be next, then the 144,000, then the 70th week martyrs and the Old Testament saints; each group in their proper order.

 

Readers, the 1000 year reign of Christ is REAL. It is not symbolic. Man ruled the earth for 6000 years and God will rule the earth for the final 1000. God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. The 7th thousand years on earth will be years of Sabbath Rest,

 

LAMAD

[Guest]

Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.'" Matthew 15:9 (NLT)

 

~

 

Jesus did not say he will return in the post resurrection body he arose with....

 

~

 

Say

 

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

 

And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

 

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts 1:9-11

 

What~!

 

Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you,

 

that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified:

 

but he shall appear to your joy,

 

and they shall be ashamed. Isaiah 66:5

[OneLight]

Jesus did not say he will return in the post resurrection body he arose with, his return is in context to making his abode with us in spirit, when he told his disciples, you in me and I in you.

Jesus said that the world will never see him again.

We do know that HE will return, as scripture tells us.

Acts 1:9-11

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Please provide scripture, in context, where Jesus said we will never see him again.