Isaiah 47: is America this present age's Babylon?

[Salty]

 

 

No - it's funny how when somebody presents evidence that conflicts with yours you call it 'opinion' or 'man-made doctrine' but when you yourself uses 'man-made doctrine' such as 'supercessionism' you refer to it as evidence.

 

Of course that's not to say that you're wrong, but if you are right then you are disagreeing with nearly everybody here on Worthy in which case you must be privy to revelations from God that the rest of us aren't!

 

 

Like I said to inchrist, the only geographical location shown beyond all doubt in Revelation is Jerusalem (Rev.11:8). And it is called the "great city" there, while also being called spiritually Sodom and Egypt in that verse. It is called the "great city" once again in Revelation 21 but in reference to The New Jerusalem that comes down to earth out of Heaven.

 

The label Babylon is being used with the symbology of the "harlot" and "whore", the "woman" of Rev.17 which in the last verse declares that woman the "great city". Those are all... symbolic references, not geographical ones.

 

Our Lord Jesus has showed us He's using Babylon as a symbol for fallen Jerusalem during the tribulation, and He's showing us with symbols while not explicitly having to say it.

 

Likewise in Isaiah 14, God uses a parable about the "king of Babylon" to point to Lucifer. We know Lucifer, the devil, Satan, never was ... the historical king of Babylon. Yet God uses that title for Lucifer there in the symbolic sense. Satan, or Lucifer, is the ultimate "king of Babylon" in the symbolic sense, because that area is where false pagan worship first began for this world age, coming from the root word for 'babel' which means 'confusion'.

 

And indeed when the coming Antichrist-pseudo-Christ arrives in Jerusalem in our near future to setup pagan idol worship, Jerusalem will be a city in confusion, and its false king the king of Babylon.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

No - it's funny how when somebody presents evidence that conflicts with yours you call it 'opinion' or 'man-made doctrine' but when you yourself uses 'man-made doctrine' such as 'supercessionism' you refer to it as evidence.

 

Of course that's not to say that you're wrong, but if you are right then you are disagreeing with nearly everybody here on Worthy in which case you must be privy to revelations from God that the rest of us aren't!

 

 

Like I said to inchrist, the only geographical location shown beyond all doubt in Revelation is Jerusalem (Rev.11:8). And it is called the "great city" there, while also being called spiritually Sodom and Egypt in that verse. It is called the "great city" once again in Revelation 21 but in reference to The New Jerusalem that comes down to earth out of Heaven.

 

The label Babylon is being used with the symbology of the "harlot" and "whore", the "woman" of Rev.17 which in the last verse declares that woman the "great city". Those are all... symbolic references, not geographical ones.

 

Our Lord Jesus has showed us He's using Babylon as a symbol for fallen Jerusalem during the tribulation, and He's showing us with symbols while not explicitly having to say it.

 

 

"beyond all doubt" are the words that you cunningly slipped in there to make your non-scriptural interpretation seem authentic. It's not beyond all doubt otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.

[Salty]

 

"beyond all doubt" are the words that you cunningly slipped in there to make your non-scriptural interpretation seem authentic. It's not beyond all doubt otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

 

Are you still confused about all this?

 

If you don't think Rev.11:8 is pointing to the geographical city of Jerusalem, even while Christ spiritually calls it Sodom and Egypt in that verse, then it would mean you don't really believe Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross in Jerusalem.

 

⁸ And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

So I would suggest you be very careful with denying that Rev.11:8 Scripture as written, because it would mean you deny Christ's crucifixion at Jerusalem per history.

[Guest]

....It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people"....

 

....My people means the true believers....

 

....The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city....  

 

....It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel.... 

 

....It is saying that true believers are commanded.... 

 

....to come out of the fallen congregations.... 

 

....which do not have....

 

....the holy spirit....

 

~

 

Come Of Of Her My People

 

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

 

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

 

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Revelation 18:1-5

 

My People

 

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 5:8

 

Come Out Of Her

 

Because the people of Babylon have killed many Israelites and because they have killed many people throughout the earth, Babylon must fall. Jeremiah 51:49 (GWT)

 

My People

 

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Revelation 18:24 

[OakWood]

 

 

"beyond all doubt" are the words that you cunningly slipped in there to make your non-scriptural interpretation seem authentic. It's not beyond all doubt otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

 

Are you still confused about all this?

 

If you don't think Rev.11:8 is pointing to the geographical city of Jerusalem, even while Christ spiritually calls it Sodom and Egypt in that verse, then it would mean you don't really believe Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross in Jerusalem.

 

⁸ And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

So I would suggest you be very careful with denying that Rev.11:8 Scripture as written, because it would mean you deny Christ's crucifixion at Jerusalem per history.

 

 

Revelation 11 is NOT referring to Mystery Babylon. Yes, it is Jerusalem though but Mystery Babylon is something else.

Now you're just making things up. This is referring to the deaths of the two witnesses.

You have a habit of making threats. How dare you tell me that I am denying Christ's crucifixion just because I don't agree with your non-scriptural theories?

[Montana Marv]

Is Jerusalem Babylon the Harlot?  or is Spiritual Jerusalem Babylon?  NO Way  No Way   No Way....   This idea is garbage  Israel has no major sea port.  Jerusalem is not a ocean or sea port of call.

 

Rev 18:21 - Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said; With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.

 

Yet, Jerusalem is alive and well during the Mill.  Zech 12:10 - I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of Grace and supplication.  They will look on me the one they have pierced, and they will mourn....  Rev 13:1 - On that day, a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.  Zech 14:8 - On that day, living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.   Zech 8:22 - And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.
 

 

Yet the city Babylon when destroyed is never to be found again.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[*Zion*]

 

 

"beyond all doubt" are the words that you cunningly slipped in there to make your non-scriptural interpretation seem authentic. It's not beyond all doubt otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

 

Are you still confused about all this?

 

If you don't think Rev.11:8 is pointing to the geographical city of Jerusalem, even while Christ spiritually calls it Sodom and Egypt in that verse, then it would mean you don't really believe Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross in Jerusalem.

 

⁸ And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

So I would suggest you be very careful with denying that Rev.11:8 Scripture as written, because it would mean you deny Christ's crucifixion at Jerusalem per history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"beyond all doubt" are the words that you cunningly slipped in there to make your non-scriptural interpretation seem authentic. It's not beyond all doubt otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

 

Are you still confused about all this?

 

If you don't think Rev.11:8 is pointing to the geographical city of Jerusalem, even while Christ spiritually calls it Sodom and Egypt in that verse, then it would mean you don't really believe Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross in Jerusalem.

 

⁸ And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

So I would suggest you be very careful with denying that Rev.11:8 Scripture as written, because it would mean you deny Christ's crucifixion at Jerusalem per history.

e

Revelation 11 is NOT referring to Mystery Babylon. Yes, it is Jerusalem though but Mystery Babylon is something else.

Now you're just making things up. This is referring to the deaths of the two witnesses.

You have a habit of making threats. How dare you tell me that I am denying Christ's crucifixion just because I don't agree with your non-scriptural theories?

 

 

Salty, only God is above error.  Just because people don't agree doesn't mean that you must attack them. And - If you are so in line with scripture - how about showing a little love?

[iamlamad]

What we really want is to determine the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit. It is not that difficult if you know HIM. We really don't have to look anywhere but in Revelation to find what the mystery "great wh**re" Babylon is talking about. We have to take the CONTEXT into consideration. (What a novel idea - keeping verses in context!)

 

The CONTEXT is that during the last half of the 70th week, the man of sin turned Beast will be deceiving THE ENTIRE WORLD from the temple in JERUSALEM. It will be the worst deception EVER foisted upon the human race. He will deceive ALL in the world except those whose names are written in heaven. This will make what happened at the tower of Babel seem insignificant. It will make all the deception over the years from false religions seem insignificant, because it will be deception on a level never seen on earth. And it will originate from JERUSALEM.

 

Is it any wonder than that God calls this city of deception "Babylon?" Think about it: NO false religion in the world has ever deceived ALL. Not all of them put together has deceived all on the earth. But the deception coming from Jerusalem then will be so great it will deceive the entire world to the last man - all but those whose names are written in heaven.

 

Since it will be mystery Babylon - the city of deception - that is destroyed, the physical city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt and Jesus will most certainly be there again. NEVER AGAIN will Jerusalem be a city of deception! Mystery "Babylon" will be gone forever.

 

"The great city" is not a sea port. However, while the Beast is in control, SO MUCH riches are shipped to Israel, when the city to which all these riches were shipped is destroyed, the shippers realize their source of wealth is gone. They were made wealthy just shipping stuff to Jerusalem. The Beast, indwelt by Satan Himself, will be a master merchandiser, and will crave all things rich people crave.

 

Make no mistake: John is telling us that the very city of Jerusalem will be called mystery "Babylon the Great," but ONLY while the Beast is in power and deceiving the entire world from there.

 

LAMAD

[Last Daze]

What we really want is to determine the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit. It is not that difficult if you know HIM. We really don't have to look anywhere but in Revelation to find what the mystery "great wh**re" Babylon is talking about. We have to take the CONTEXT into consideration. (What a novel idea - keeping verses in context!)

 

The CONTEXT is that during the last half of the 70th week, the man of sin turned Beast will be deceiving THE ENTIRE WORLD from the temple in JERUSALEM. It will be the worst deception EVER foisted upon the human race. He will deceive ALL in the world except those whose names are written in heaven. This will make what happened at the tower of Babel seem insignificant. It will make all the deception over the years from false religions seem insignificant, because it will be deception on a level never seen on earth. And it will originate from JERUSALEM.

 

Is it any wonder than that God calls this city of deception "Babylon?" Think about it: NO false religion in the world has ever deceived ALL. Not all of them put together has deceived all on the earth. But the deception coming from Jerusalem then will be so great it will deceive the entire world to the last man - all but those whose names are written in heaven.

 

Since it will be mystery Babylon - the city of deception - that is destroyed, the physical city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt and Jesus will most certainly be there again. NEVER AGAIN will Jerusalem be a city of deception! Mystery "Babylon" will be gone forever.

 

"The great city" is not a sea port. However, while the Beast is in control, SO MUCH riches are shipped to Israel, when the city to which all these riches were shipped is destroyed, the shippers realize their source of wealth is gone. They were made wealthy just shipping stuff to Jerusalem. The Beast, indwelt by Satan Himself, will be a master merchandiser, and will crave all things rich people crave.

 

Make no mistake: John is telling us that the very city of Jerusalem will be called mystery "Babylon the Great," but ONLY while the Beast is in power and deceiving the entire world from there.

 

LAMAD

 

So which city is destroyed by the 10 horns during their hour long reign? 

[Salty]

 

 

Salty, only God is above error.  Just because people don't agree doesn't mean that you must attack them. And - If you are so in line with scripture - how about showing a little love?

 

 

Are you confused too? I'm the one being attacked here for revealing how Christ used Babylon as a symbol for Jerusalem in a false worship state in His Book of Revelation, and I compared it to how our Heavenly Father did that kind of association for Jerusalem and her people in a fallen away state per the OT prophets. Thus I most definitely am allowing God's Word to interpret Itself on this matter.

 

I've already dealt with others (not on this forum) that flat deny the Rev.11:8 verse is even pointing to Jerusalem simply because of the Sodom and Egypt symbols used for it in that verse. But by doing that they also have to deny that Christ Jesus was crucified at Jerusalem. Our Lord Jesus showed He was pointing to Jerusalem in Rev.11:8 so we could not... deny His use of those symbols of Sodom and Egypt as spiritual symbols. Maybe He knew in these last days some would try to deny anything negative pointing to Jerusalem in the last days, because it's obvious some have a problem with that Revelation Scripture about the "great city".