Bible Question on Job

[Guest Butero]

I think this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that "Job was certainly no David," in a derogatory manner.  Next to Jesus, Job was about as righteous of an individual as ever lived.  You may be able to make the case that Enoch was more righteous than Job, since he walked so close to God, that God took him to heaven without him experiencing death, but Job was a great man of faith.  How would any of us react to the temptations he had to endure, and all of that when Job was doing the best he could before God.  He didn't know about the accusations of Satan in heaven, and why he was going through all he was going through.  If we were absolutely perfect, we would endure any hardship and never question God, but who can do that?  We aren't that perfect.  I admire Job a lot for the way he handled things, even down to accepting God's rebuke at the end in such a humble manner. 

[Openly Curious]

What are the differences and similarities between "loss" and "illness" in terms of the temptation to doubt God's goodness.

First I want to say that things in life can be replaced but if your life is taken it cannot be replaced.

But in terms of temptation to stop trusting in God would result in loss of eternal life. One can put their trust in things but trusting in those things in this life will never sustain you life on earth forever and will not save you in the end. Having things are not sinful and wrong but when one put's their trust in things and possessions thinking somehow they will be able to sustain their life on earth forever by the wealth well that is where the mistake is made. Things or wealth want save our soul in the end if we put our trust in them it is only God who is the giver of eternal life and giving up our trust in God to save us in the end and knowing that our Redeemer liveth and we shall see him after our physical death all will make the waiting and patience of the trials of this life worth it as Job found out in the end of his trials. Restoration in God is an awesome thing even in death as we must keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and our eye single so full restoration in all eternity is not lost as our faith is worth fighting to keep in God.

I've found in my personal life that "waiting" (patience) is one of the hardest things I have to battle when going through trials cause it's so easy to get tired of waiting on something to wit.

[Littlelambseativy]

I could see how the difference could be being upset you didn't have time to say goodbye or vs not understanding why someone is battling an illness. It would be tempting to see these as punishments from God vs seeing that He is good in all things.

is that a difference?

Well, Job gave up. Job was certainly no David, that is clear.

Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

(Job 3:11)

Despite all the blessings on Job's life, Job suddenly discounted all of them once all of them were gone.

Job never asked God for help, instead, Job just blamed God the whole time.

Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge. If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice. For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

(Job 9:15-17)

Here Job keeps running on, does not expect God to even hear him, and God was the one that harmed him and it was without cause. In other Words, God did this to Job unjustly.

I could go through the whole book, but you get the point. Job fell apart, blamed God, and accused God of harming him for no good reason at all.

What Job did not understand is that God said hurting Job was without cause also. God was on Job's side the whole time.

And the Lord said to the Satan, Have you taken note of my servant Job, for there is no one like him on the earth, a man without sin and upright, fearing God and keeping himself far from evil? and he still keeps his righteousness, though you have been moving me to send destruction on him without cause.

(Job 2:3)

Satan kept telling God to harm Job, God said hurting Job is without cause, there is no purpose in it. It was Satan that had the place, It was Satan lying and trying to manipulate God as is his custom and there is not truth in the devil (John 8:44)

Job did not blame God....he questioned why this happened but he said about God even when his wife temptingly said to curse God and die ( though she never thought of doing this herself) ...though He slay me yet will I trust Him. Job had absolute trust in God and this is what God knew and satan did not, God knew Job's heart. It is in the difficult times when our mettle is revealed and to trust when all is going wrong is what we are asked to do. God is in control of the Christian's life and He knows how we will react to the situation that is why He will not give us moe than we are able to bear. We are only asked to trust Him. This is what Job did.

[Marilyn C]

After suffering sudden loss, Job suffered chronic illness. What are the differences and similarities between loss and illness in terms of the temptation to doubt God's goodness.

 

 

I been stumped for days on this question. I would really appreciate input on this please.

Hi coffeespiller87,

 

I would say the difference is whatever the person has the most  - expectation, emotional value etc placed on it. We do not know what is really in our hearts until the Holy Spirit puts His light on that area. Circumstances in this damaged world is the crucible where our motives are exposed. This can lead to bitterness or a dying to self as many would know. 

 

Marilyn.

[Willa]

In the midst of grief and loss Job was severely depressed and wished he had not been born or had died early.

In 19:25-27 Job confesses his faith.

His 3 friends are the mouthpieces of satan, the accuser of the brethern..

Job was now afraid of God because he felt God had brought all this on him for no reason, and that he himself was righteous. He accuses God in his misery and questions God.

In 32 we find that the friends did not answer Job BECAUSE HE WAS RIGHTEOUS IN HIS OWN EYES. Elihu also was angry with Job BECAUSE HE JUSTIFIED HIMSELF RATHER THEN GOD.

In 42 Job repents

While previously Job's actions had been righteous, the suffering brought out the self righteousness that was in his heart. But he also said "I know that my Redeemer lives and will stand on this earth, and that I will see Him even if not in this flesh. How cool! This also was in his heart.

Depression can be a part of grief and loss. During this time we can feel like no one understands, no one really cares, and we feel totally alone. God can be right beside us but we can't see Him or hear him in our dispondancy. Finally Elihu reminds Job of God's goodness and sets him straight. God Himself then answers Job and reminds him that He is the God of all and Creator. He doesn't need a reason. He is not accountable to us, as we are to Him.

[By Faith]

 

 

I could see how the difference could be being upset you didn't have time to say goodbye or vs not understanding why someone is battling an illness. It would be tempting to see these as punishments from God vs seeing that He is good in all things.

is that a difference?

Well, Job gave up. Job was certainly no David, that is clear.

Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

(Job 3:11)

Despite all the blessings on Job's life, Job suddenly discounted all of them once all of them were gone.

Job never asked God for help, instead, Job just blamed God the whole time.

Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge. If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice. For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

(Job 9:15-17)

Here Job keeps running on, does not expect God to even hear him, and God was the one that harmed him and it was without cause. In other Words, God did this to Job unjustly.

I could go through the whole book, but you get the point. Job fell apart, blamed God, and accused God of harming him for no good reason at all.

What Job did not understand is that God said hurting Job was without cause also. God was on Job's side the whole time.

And the Lord said to the Satan, Have you taken note of my servant Job, for there is no one like him on the earth, a man without sin and upright, fearing God and keeping himself far from evil? and he still keeps his righteousness, though you have been moving me to send destruction on him without cause.

(Job 2:3)

Satan kept telling God to harm Job, God said hurting Job is without cause, there is no purpose in it. It was Satan that had the place, It was Satan lying and trying to manipulate God as is his custom and there is not truth in the devil (John 8:44)

Job did not blame God....he questioned why this happened but he said about God even when his wife temptingly said to curse God and die ( though she never thought of doing this herself) ...though He slay me yet will I trust Him. Job had absolute trust in God and this is what God knew and satan did not, God knew Job's heart. It is in the difficult times when our mettle is revealed and to trust when all is going wrong is what we are asked to do. God is in control of the Christian's life and He knows how we will react to the situation that is why He will not give us moe than we are able to bear. We are only asked to trust Him. This is what Job did.

 

 

Job_13:15  Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. 

 

Though God slay him? Job did blame God and charged the Lord. To make it worse, Job flaunted his own righteousness and felt there was some injustice done. I will maintain my own ways, when Job's own ways ended up loosing everything is pretty hard headed. 

 

However, we are told Job did not charge God foolishly. So Job handled it according to his own understanding. 

 

Job_1:21  And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

Job 1:22  In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

 

All the Lord's fault, right. Job charged God with a heart that truly believed God was responsible. Not in a foolish or disrespectful manner. Never occurred to Job to ask for help either. 

 

As for more than Job can bare? Job wanted to just die. I know we all can sit back and just think how Awesome God is for giving Job twice back everything, and forget the fact that loosing your children to a murderous and disobedient angel is extremely painful. Pretty clear by some of these post nobody has had to experience seeing their child dead in a coffin. 

 

However, God does not send a killer to murder someone's children Who serves Him, take their stuff he gave them as all the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, and Gives permission to make them so sick they can hardly move all in one day. 

 

Elihu was the only one that spoke right on God's behalf, the only one who did not get in trouble with the Lord. 

 

What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men. For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight himself with God. 

(Job 34:7-9)

 

Job said it profits a man nothing to delight himself in God. 

 

Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways. 

(Job 34:10-11)

 

People of understanding, already know what Job had done in ignorance, why Satan had a place, and why God would not violate his own spiritual laws to stop Satan. 

 

Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment. 

(Job 34:12)

 

I hope that helps clear some things up. God did not OK Satan to go after Job, and in fact God saved Job's life. Job just did not understand. 

 

Be blessed.

 

 

[Guest Butero]

God most certainly did give Satan permission to do those things to Job, and I think Job handled himself pretty good considering what he had to go through. 

[FresnoJoe]

God most certainly did give Satan permission to do those things to Job,

and I think Job handled himself pretty good considering what he had to go through. 

 

 

Amen~!

 

And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

 

And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 

Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,

 

And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

 

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. Job 1:13-22

[Littlelambseativy]

If things in your life go wrong, do you never in prayer ask God, "Why?"..., Job did, he had been righteous in his dealings and in all he did...which is more than can be said for the majority of us I would hazard to say. But to blame God? No. Job trusted God in all things....that is why he said, 'though He slay me yet will I trust Him'.

Satan did approach God and ask to tempt Job...Satan thought Job would turn against God but God knew Job's heart and knew he trusted God no matter what would happen...yes he lost his crops, his animals, his family etc. which is why he was sitting in the ashes covered in sackcloth..but though he questioned why, when he was faithful, and righteous, God permitted this to happen.....and yes, for the Christian, Satan needs God's permission to test/try him, he cannot attack without that express permission....God does not have to explain why He permits things to happen....we need, as Job, to trust that God has all things for our good though as Job, at the time we can only see the present and our own seeming righteousness. But when God finally does speak Ge asks Job if he was there when the foundation of the earth was laid, when the stars were set in place when the mazaroth was set in place etc...in other words...who are we the created to question the Creator.....yet we still do...we look at our own righteousness yet to God they are filthy rags and He being the Creator God can do and permit what He chooses......but all He asks of us is to TRUST HIM.

[By Faith]

If things in your life go wrong, do you never in prayer ask God, "Why?"..., Job did, he had been righteous in his dealings and in all he did...which is more than can be said for the majority of us I would hazard to say. But to blame God? No. Job trusted God in all things....that is why he said, 'though He slay me yet will I trust Him'.

Satan did approach God and ask to tempt Job...Satan thought Job would turn against God but God knew Job's heart and knew he trusted God no matter what would happen...yes he lost his crops, his animals, his family etc. which is why he was sitting in the ashes covered in sackcloth..but though he questioned why, when he was faithful, and righteous, God permitted this to happen.....and yes, for the Christian, Satan needs God's permission to test/try him, he cannot attack without that express permission....God does not have to explain why He permits things to happen....we need, as Job, to trust that God has all things for our good though as Job, at the time we can only see the present and our own seeming righteousness. But when God finally does speak Ge asks Job if he was there when the foundation of the earth was laid, when the stars were set in place when the mazaroth was set in place etc...in other words...who are we the created to question the Creator.....yet we still do...we look at our own righteousness yet to God they are filthy rags and He being the Creator God can do and permit what He chooses......but all He asks of us is to TRUST HIM.

 

Your not seeing what really happened in Job. I did post some scripture from Elihu. God will not prevent or step aside and ever violate his Word. It could be I just assume everyone knows why Job went through what He did and Elihu makes it really clear. 

 

Elihu answers that question. When things go wrong, do we ever ask God why? Lot's of things go wrong in our life, just the afflictions of the World as Promised. For the Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecutions and Jesus said we will have trouble in this World. 

 

There is a difference between waiting out the flood, and the house being destroyed by the flood that came. 

 

When things go wrong, Elihu gave us the answer.

 

Surely it is meet to be said unto God, I have borne chastisement, I will not offend any more: That which I see not teach thou me: if I have done iniquity, I will do no more. 

(Job 34:31-32)

 

When trouble comes, it's not time to ask why, it's time to seek help. Can we see the plans of the enemy? Do we walk perfect knowing every thing in us that is not perfect? Do we understand all things unless it's revealed to us? 

 

Php_3:15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 

 

 

The correct response is to call out for Help, Lord you will see me through all things, if I have caused this, show me and I will do it no more. If my thinking is wrong, then I receive correction, but You are my God, and will help and see me through.

 

Job on the other hand..............

 

That Job speaks without knowledge, and his words are without wisdom and insight. [Would that Job's afflictions be continued and] he be tried to the end because of his answering like wicked men! For he adds rebellion [in his unsubmissive, defiant attitude toward God] to his unacknowledged sin; he claps his hands [in open mockery and contempt of God] among us, and he multiplies his words of accusation against God.

(Job 34:35-37)

 

Job was just running his mouth, thou he slay me, I will still trust him, but I am not changing my ways, but maintain them.

 

That is a accusation against God,(God is slaying me, His fault) it's rebellion and unsubmissive. It assumes God had something to so with what happened to me. If God did give permission to a disobedient angel in some Satanic deal to murder my family, then God can't be trusted anyway. That is like saying I trust the guy that comes to my house and always steals something before they leave.

 

 

It's perfectly fine to ask God questions, it's never OK to accuse God of wrong doing. It's never OK to assume God did not want to help, or God through some strange permissive will allowed the devil to get us. For God to do that, He would have to go against his own Son who came to destroy the Works of the devil. People say things without thinking and don't really understand the implications they imply. 

 

Let's get something straight though. Satan don't need God's permission to attack if we give the devil a place. Even the devils named Legion thought Jesus was way out of line and violating the Word when Jesus came to cast them out. They said we rebuke you in the name of God. Even devils know God keeps his own Word, and would not stop them if it meant violating His own Word, saying have you come to torment us before it's time? If the devils are that smart, we ought to at least be that smart. 

 

God did not give the devil permission to get Job, and God could not have Stopped the devil even though God wanted to , and had the power to do so. That is not how it works. As Elihu said, Job did this to himself.

 

Job is not about God testing Job to prove something to a disobedient angel. God has nothing to prove to his created beings. God already Knows Job's heart, what does God care what the devil thinks? That is like saying we should care what someone thinks who always thinks wrong, and always causes trouble. Then one day we get stupid and listen to this great plan they have, knowing there is not truth in them, and knowing when they speak a lie, they speak their very nature. 

 

Of course we would not listen to them, we are smarter than that, and God is by far smarter than us. It was not about God proving something, or testing Job. As if God needs a test to know a mans heart, and has to listen to a liar to test.

 

it was something else which should be evidently clear to all of us, because our Lord said it many times, the Head of the Church. 

 

Blessings.