Buying Oil - Matt 25

[missmuffet]

I think it is a warning to the pre-tribers, when no pre-trib rapture happens, those that are hoping for it will be discouraged, and run out of "oil". The post trib rapture crowd will be prepared with plenty of "oil" to get to their end. "OIL" being the will to see the end.

I always thought that those who do not believe in the pretrib rapture are concerned about being wisked away instantly and judged.

[Omegaman 3.0]

I always thought that those who do not believe in the pretrib rapture are concerned about being wisked away instantly and judged.

 

Why would you think that? Has anyone ever said such a thing?

 

I do not know about all possible variances of various eschatological positions, but most post-tribbers I have ever heard talk about how things go down, believe that God's wrath and judgement (in the negative sense) are reserved for those who do not believe. 

 

To speak for myself personally, if the Lord tarries and I live long enough, I would expect to go into the time of tribulation, and perhaps suffer and even die at the hands of antichrist and his minions, just as the holy people of God always have over the centuries, suffered persecution, even to this day. However, if God's wrath extends into the time of great tribulation (there is some disagreement on that as well), I expect that believers will be delivered from or protected in the tribulation, from His wrath. 

 

You recently posted, bopeep, that wrath is an emotional outpouring of God's anger, or words to that effect. I agree with that. However, God is not angry at His children, so they are not objects of His wrath. I believe 1 Thess 5:9:

 

For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ 

 

​So, if we are not appointed to God's wrath but are appointed to salvation instead, what do we have to worry about?

 

Jesus said not to fear those who can destroy the body, and then do no more. So, I am not concerned about what antichrist can do, and I have no reason to worry about God's wrath either. The worst that can happen to me, is to die for the cause of Christ. Now think about that for a moment.

 

 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

      “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. “Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

The worst thing that can happen to me in the tribulation, is to get a great reward in Heaven? LOL, Bring it on!

[thereselittleflower]

 They had oil in their lamps, they just didn't have extra oil, they were told to go buy more oil, which was impossible

 

Yes, they originally had oil in their lamps, the same oil the other 5 virgins had.  But they ran out.   To me this speaks about the sin of presumption - presuming on God's grace and becoming lazy in one's spiritual life to the point of endangering one's salvation.  For those who believe that once you are saved you are always saved, this will not make much sense.  For those who believe salvation is a process which culminates in final salvation when one leaves this life in the friendship of God (as my signature says, I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved, I work out my own salvation in fear and trembling, which implies that one can depart from this path of their own free will), this makes a great deal of sense.   Instead of working out their salvation in fear and trembling as Paul instructs us to, they became presumptuous, lazy, and ran out of oil.   Then at the moment of decision, when they needed this oil, they had none.  

 

It is so easy to presume we have enough time to make things right, that we can be lazy about our spiritual lives, and presume upon God's grace and mercy.  But then when our final moment comes as a thief in the night, will we have time to reconcile ourselves to God?   

[Last Daze]

 They had oil in their lamps, they just didn't have extra oil, they were told to go buy more oil, which was impossible

 

I think this relates to the parable of the sower.

 

The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.  Matthew 13:20-22

 

These two sprang up but were unfruitful.  If we don't act on the truth we have received, we are self-deceived and unfruitful.  If we act on the truth, the Truth will manifest Himself to us, and we will have more truth, enough to see us through the night.

 

Those who understand God's truth have oil.  Those who put that truth into action have more oil.  Those who let persecution or the cares of this world derail their implementation of the truth won't have enough oil.

 

The oil is the same as the seed which is sown: the Word.  Those who put it into practice bear fruit and discern error.

[thereselittleflower]

 

 They had oil in their lamps, they just didn't have extra oil, they were told to go buy more oil, which was impossible

 

I think this relates to the parable of the sower.

 

The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.  Matthew 13:20-22

 

These two sprang up but were unfruitful.  If we don't act on the truth we have received, we are self-deceived and unfruitful.  If we act on the truth, the Truth will manifest Himself to us, and we will have more truth, enough to see us through the night.

 

Those who understand God's truth have oil.  Those who put that truth into action have more oil.  Those who let persecution or the cares of this world derail their implementation of the truth won't have enough oil.

 

The oil is the same as the seed which is sown: the Word.  Those who put it into practice bear fruit and discern error.

 

 

I find this parable to be fascinating.   When I was uncertain which of the two main views of salvation was correct - once saved always saved, or one can lose their salvation, I did a word study on this parable and found it very enlightening to this end.  If I may share what I discovered:

 

Part of the seed was sown on rocky ground. 

 

It took root - that means it was received, and Jesus even goes so far as to say it was received with joy! That is a significant statement for our discussion and realizing what this means gives us great insight into what Jesus was actually saying to us about salvation:

 

Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

Then Jesus explains the parable:

 

Luk 8:11 ¶Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

 

Now, looking at this verse again: 

 

Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

 

 

"Received" is this:    "δέχομαι"

 

c) of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing

 

1) to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject

 

They gave ear to the word, received it favorably, embraced it, made it their own, approved it, and did not reject it.

 

 

"Joy" is this:  "χαρά"

 

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. joy, gladness

   1. the joy received from you

   2. the cause or occasion of joy

      1. of persons who are one's joy

 

From what I can see, every use of this word in scripture is in conjunction with the joy of believers.

 

 

 

"Believe" is this:       "πιστεύω"

 

πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

 

This word, indicating such have entrusted themselves to Christ, coupled with the meaning of "received' above - to make one's own, to embrace,  indicates a saving faith, as it is also used in the scriptures to designate.

 

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in

   1. of the thing believed

      1. to credit, have confidence

   2. in a moral or religious reference

      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

      3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity

   1. to be intrusted with a thing

 

 

"Fall Away" is this:   "ἀφίστημι"

 

ἀφίστημι aphístēmi, af-is'-tay-mee; from G575 and G2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:—depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

 

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove

   1. to excite to revolt

2. to stand off, to stand aloof

   1. to go away, to depart from anyone

   2. to desert, withdraw from one

   3. to fall away, become faithless

   4. to shun, flee from

   5. to cease to vex one

   6. to withdraw one's self from, to fall away

   7. to keep one's self from, absent one's self from

 

 

 

They received the word of God - made it their own, embraced it, etc;  with Joy - the joy of believers;  believed with saving faith;   but fell away - departed, revolted, withdrew, deserted, became faithless, shunned, fled - from Christ and the gospel they had once embraced.

 

Jesus tells this happened because they they yielded to sin, to temptation  when they were tested.    Why did they not stay strong?   I believe Paul gives us the answer when he commands us to work out our own salvation with genuine fear and trembling.   The scriptures speak of salvation as a process - it has a beginning point and an end point, and a path joining the two  -  I am saved, I am being saved, I have the hope I will be saved.    

 

We are beings of free will.   Paul speaks of the body of Christ as the Bride of Christ.  In line with that, I think this analogy is appropriate to illustrate the free will God has given us: God does not seek a Stepford wife.  He wants a real wife.  And that real wife must freely choose God, not just once, but if one wants to be secure in their salvation, then also in every present moment, for at any present moment, our souls may be required of us.   We do not lose our free will the moment we step upon the path of salvation.   The same free will that allowed us to choose God, can also be used to choose to leave God.    

 

These are very sobering thoughts.

 

May God have mercy on me, a sinner. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[WilliamL]

Lamp oil causes light, which, scripturally speaking, is synonymous with truth and understanding. Truth and understanding can be bought, with money even. Bibles and Bible commentaries etc. cost money, as do teaching seminars and videos and so on.

 

The foolish virgins ran out of truth/understanding, just like the Israelites who turned away from God when he appeared at Mount Sinai. Why did they run out of understanding? Why weren't they ready when He appeared? Because they had to wait longer than they thought they would, and their eschatology ran out of truth. Remember, the Israelites initially thought they were only going to travel 3 days into the wilderness...but it turned out to be 53 days before the Lord descended to call up "those who were ready" into his Presence!

[Leonardo Von]

On 6/18/2015 at 0:03 PM, Last Daze said:

Obviously the truth is not bought or sold, but as the parable suggests, it is each person's responsibility to acquire a sufficient amount themselves.

See this:

• "Buy the truth, and sell [ it ] not; [ also ] wisdom, and instruction, and understanding." (Proverbs 23.23).

To acquire the truth, it is necessary to invest time, energy and, sometimes, money, buying books, attend to lecture, etc. Also it is indispensable to strain so that the truth penetrates inside our minds and hearts.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2015 at 10:54 AM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

   1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2“Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3“For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5“Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6“But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7“Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.8“The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9“But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10“And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11“Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12“But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13“Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

 

What do you suppose this "buying of oil" represents?

Hi Omegaman,

I believe Jesus told this parable (as all the others concerning the Kingdom of heaven) to remind the people of Israel that the rulership of the God of heaven was coming as promised by the prophets & for them to be ready. Israel needed to be righteous under the law as well as their heart motivation if they were to be ready for their coming bridegroom.

Notice `while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy & began to sleep.`  Israel has long been `slumbering` but they will awaken when God delivers them from their enemies soon. (The Russian Federation coming to the mountains of Israel)

`And I will not hide my face from them any more; for I shall have poured out my Spirit on the house of Israel,` says the Lord.` (Ez. 39: 29) 

The prophet Malachi tells us some of the details -

`And the Lord whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple......But who can endure the day of His coming? ...He will sit as a refiner & a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, & purge them as gold & silver, that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness.`

`Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, & the Lord listened & heard them;....they shall be mine says the Lord of hosts, on the day that I make them my jewels. I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him.`  (Mal. 3: 1 & 2, 16 & 17)

 

It is the Lord who will distinguish between those who obey Him,  `offering in righteousness.` They are the ones who come through the great tribulation & go into the `wedding feast,` the connecting again of Israel to God through Jesus Christ their long awaited Messiah.

 

Marilyn.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Virgins can denote those who are faithful and had no other God.
Oil can denote faith.
The ten virgins do relate to the Kingdom of Heaven.  "...is like..."

A salient fact here is that all ten are virgins, and all had lamps filled with oil.
Another salient fact is that only five had oil containers apart from their lamps.
The other salient fact is that the Groom tarries.

All ten sleep.
This sets up a conundrum when they awake.
The five foolish virgins demand the five wise virgins share their oil.

A question here is why don't they?
Why would they be fearful of not having enough?
And a third question here is why do they tell the others to "buy" some oil, if oil is indeed faith?

In the time of the Great Tribulation, the Day of the Lord is unknown.
It is delayed until the number of the Elect who will be martyred are martyred to bring the number of the fifth Seal martyrs into alignment with God's Plan.
Even Jesus does not know the Day.
The Great Tribulation goes beyond the breaking point...

In this time, if one buys or sells, they take the "mark" and so are excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.
Just as the five foolish ones knock and the Lord says, "I do not know you."

It's a test.  They failed.
Keep the faith, remain steadfast, and endure patiently.
You don't have to "make it" to the end to "make it" into Heaven.

[Marilyn C]

35 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Virgins can denote those who are faithful and had no other God.
Oil can denote faith.
The ten virgins do relate to the Kingdom of Heaven.  "...is like..."

A salient fact here is that all ten are virgins, and all had lamps filled with oil.
Another salient fact is that only five had oil containers apart from their lamps.
The other salient fact is that the Groom tarries.

All ten sleep.
This sets up a conundrum when they awake.
The five foolish virgins demand the five wise virgins share their oil.

A question here is why don't they?
Why would they be fearful of not having enough?
And a third question here is why do they tell the others to "buy" some oil, if oil is indeed faith?

In the time of the Great Tribulation, the Day of the Lord is unknown.
It is delayed until the number of the Elect who will be martyred are martyred to bring the number of the fifth Seal martyrs into alignment with God's Plan.
Even Jesus does not know the Day.
The Great Tribulation goes beyond the breaking point...

In this time, if one buys or sells, they take the "mark" and so are excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.
Just as the five foolish ones knock and the Lord says, "I do not know you."

It's a test.  They failed.
Keep the faith, remain steadfast, and endure patiently.
You don't have to "make it" to the end to "make it" into Heaven.

Hi Marcus,

Just a couple of points. I believe that Jesus didn`t know the day when he was on earth in human form, however now that He is at the right hand of the Father He is in His new body in the Godhead, thus I believe He does know. He will be the one executing the judgments upon the rebellious in the great trib, He is the judge, thus He does know for it will be in His timing.

Also to try & take out a phrase such as `buying of oil` to mean buying something is not in keeping with how parables are discerned. As Shiloh said we need to look at the meaning of the parable. Also I believe we need to see what God says concerning Israel slumbering then awakening. It is through them that God has promised that the rulership (kingdom) of the God of heaven will come.

`In the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed...` (Dan. 2: 44)

Jesus was referring to this when He said `the kingdom of heaven,` meaning the rulership of the God of heaven, through Israel on the earth over the nations as many prophets foretold.

regards, Marilyn.