what is the way.. for who died without hearing gospel.

[thereselittleflower]

I can see you put a lot of thought into your reply, and I am grateful of your commitment.  Unlike you, I don't believe God needs to give knowledge of the bible to someone who has passed without ever hearing scripture.  I believe, as it says in the verses I provided, that those who have not heard, in their heart, knows through nature, that there is a God and they will follow His leading in their heart, though they do not know His name, are His and will be judged accordingly by Jesus.  Scripture tells us that God makes Himself known to everyone through His creation, and those who see Him in His work, and follows the leading of God in their lives, will, by their choice, obey His leading.  You see, God is far above us in every way and does know the end of all.  Just by the person listening to Him and following Him, without knowing scripture, speaks volumes of the heart of the person.

How I wish what you say is truth, then the good news to those who know that there is God will be to have and maintain a good consience.      And to those who have a good consience, the good news will be to know that there is God. 

Then many will be saved who have not believe in Jesus Christ. 

i am convince that's not the message Paul is trying to get through with this passage, 

I know also, that's not what you believe and that's not what you teach, but that's how it comes out from your statement.

Those people are not saved. No one can be saved, by believing there is God and having a good consience. 

No one can be under the blood of Jesus Christ by applying those two principals. And no one can receive the spirit of Christ this way. And no one can be a heir or co-heir of the heavens together with Jesus Christ. 

Sorry but not the teaching of Paul of how we inherit heavens.

 

 

There is something called invincible ignorance my dear friend.   Invincible ignorance is ignorance one is not able to overcome.   

God's arm is not too short to save.

God is able to impute to those who have not heard the gospel, salvation through the blood of Jesus and be righteous and just in His judgments,  for He examines our hearts before He rewards our deeds.    

God is God.   God is not limited to the ordinary means of salvation He has made known to us.    Who are we to question God?

 

 

Edited September 22, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Your closest friendnt]

I can see you put a lot of thought into your reply, and I am grateful of your commitment.  Unlike you, I don't believe God needs to give knowledge of the bible to someone who has passed without ever hearing scripture.  I believe, as it says in the verses I provided, that those who have not heard, in their heart, knows through nature, that there is a God and they will follow His leading in their heart, though they do not know His name, are His and will be judged accordingly by Jesus.  Scripture tells us that God makes Himself known to everyone through His creation, and those who see Him in His work, and follows the leading of God in their lives, will, by their choice, obey His leading.  You see, God is far above us in every way and does know the end of all.  Just by the person listening to Him and following Him, without knowing scripture, speaks volumes of the heart of the person.

How I wish what you say is truth, then the good news to those who know that there is God will be to have and maintain a good consience.      And to those who have a good consience, the good news will be to know that there is God. 

Then many will be saved who have not believe in Jesus Christ. 

i am convince that's not the message Paul is trying to get through with this passage, 

I know also, that's not what you believe and that's not what you teach, but that's how it comes out from your statement.

Those people are not saved. No one can be saved, by believing there is God and having a good consience. 

No one can be under the blood of Jesus Christ by applying those two principals. And no one can receive the spirit of Christ this way. And no one can be a heir or co-heir of the heavens together with Jesus Christ. 

Sorry but not the teaching of Paul of how we inherit heavens.

 

 

There is something called invincible ignorance my dear friend.   Invincible ignorance is ignorance one is not able to overcome.   

God's arm is not too short to save.

God is able to impute to those who have not heard the gospel, salvation through the blood of Jesus and be righteous and just in His judgments,  for He examines our hearts before He rewards our deeds.    

God is God.   God is not limited to the ordinary means of salvation He has made known to us.    Who are we to question God?

 

 

that's how I see it, heavens is given to Jesus Christ, judgement is given to Jesus Christ, 

GOD is not the Savior of the world, he is not the one who died and open the way to heavens. 

GOD has Honor Jesus and gave him all authority and all Judgement, he made Jesus Lord and our peace with him. 

GOD have decided not to Judge anyone, and he does not interfere and make exceptions to the rule, if that what you are sugesting. 

No GOD can not play agains his own rules, he can not break his own covenant.

No one can inherit heavens without having the spirit of Jesus Christ, and no one can be sealed with the spirit of Jesus Christ unless he is under the blood of Jesus Christ, and no one can be under the blood of Jesus unless he believes that Jesus is the Lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world, and no  GOD can not substitute faith in Jesus for a heavenly inheritance.

[thereselittleflower]

I can see you put a lot of thought into your reply, and I am grateful of your commitment.  Unlike you, I don't believe God needs to give knowledge of the bible to someone who has passed without ever hearing scripture.  I believe, as it says in the verses I provided, that those who have not heard, in their heart, knows through nature, that there is a God and they will follow His leading in their heart, though they do not know His name, are His and will be judged accordingly by Jesus.  Scripture tells us that God makes Himself known to everyone through His creation, and those who see Him in His work, and follows the leading of God in their lives, will, by their choice, obey His leading.  You see, God is far above us in every way and does know the end of all.  Just by the person listening to Him and following Him, without knowing scripture, speaks volumes of the heart of the person.

How I wish what you say is truth, then the good news to those who know that there is God will be to have and maintain a good consience.      And to those who have a good consience, the good news will be to know that there is God. 

Then many will be saved who have not believe in Jesus Christ. 

i am convince that's not the message Paul is trying to get through with this passage, 

I know also, that's not what you believe and that's not what you teach, but that's how it comes out from your statement.

Those people are not saved. No one can be saved, by believing there is God and having a good consience. 

No one can be under the blood of Jesus Christ by applying those two principals. And no one can receive the spirit of Christ this way. And no one can be a heir or co-heir of the heavens together with Jesus Christ. 

Sorry but not the teaching of Paul of how we inherit heavens.

 

 

There is something called invincible ignorance my dear friend.   Invincible ignorance is ignorance one is not able to overcome.   

God's arm is not too short to save.

God is able to impute to those who have not heard the gospel, salvation through the blood of Jesus and be righteous and just in His judgments,  for He examines our hearts before He rewards our deeds.    

God is God.   God is not limited to the ordinary means of salvation He has made known to us.    Who are we to question God?

 

 

that's how I see it, heavens is given to Jesus Christ, judgement is given to Jesus Christ, 

GOD is not the Savior of the world, he is not the one who died and open the way to heavens. 

GOD has Honor Jesus and gave him all authority and all Judgement, he made Jesus Lord and our peace with him. 

GOD have decided not to Judge anyone, and he does not interfere and make exceptions to the rule, if that what you are sugesting. 

No GOD can not play agains his own rules, he can not break his own covenant.

No one can inherit heavens without having the spirit of Jesus Christ, and no one can be sealed with the spirit of Jesus Christ unless he is under the blood of Jesus Christ, and no one can be under the blood of Jesus unless he believes that Jesus is the Lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world, and no  GOD can not substitute faith in Jesus for a heavenly inheritance.

God wouldn't be breaking His own Covenant.

 

[other one]

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
NASB

 

take note that not one mention of the actual Gospel being heard or knowledge of Jesus himself for those going to heaven......    and it appears to me that some who are not going to heaven expected to do so......   

[Your closest friendnt]

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
NASB

 

take note that not one mention of the actual Gospel being heard or knowledge of Jesus himself for those going to heaven......    and it appears to me that some who are not going to heaven expected to do so......   

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
NASB

 

take note that not one mention of the actual Gospel being heard or knowledge of Jesus himself for those going to heaven......    and it appears to me that some who are not going to heaven expected to do so......    

There is not mention here.                 (of heaven) or (those going to heaven).

And there is not mention here of (Hell), or (some who are not going to heaven). 

Jesus was taulking of the kingdom of God in parables

And then on verse 31, on chapter 25, in the book of  matthew, Jesus began with a very peculiar introduction,

"When the Son of Man sall come in his Glory and all the holy angels with him, then sall he sit upon the Throne of his Glory."

 (he new that he had to died before he receives his Glory)

Then the most strange words came out of his mouth, "and before him shall be gather all nations". 

he is not giving Israel or Juda any special place among the Nations.

  Then he will come in the Glory of the Great Judge of all.

"every knee shall bow before him, and every tongue will call him Lord," 

within all he included, the parishes and .....the high priest). 

Like he was telling the audiences that you will not see my Glory revealed , the way you want to, the way you are asking to, so you can believe in me as the Christ, but you will see my Glory on the Day of your judgement. 

( Jesus finish with  very disturbing news for the Jews, first he did not give them a special place among the other nations, and then, he went on to tell them, how he will punish them for what they are going to do" to his disciples, knowing that the Jews are going to prosecute his disciples, and deprive them of water and food and put them in the prison.

He surprised them, because he discrived himself with the Glory that belong to the Christ.

All this happen, days before the great sacrifise of the Lamb of GOD, before the shedding of the blood of the new covenant. 

Before the great commission. 

[OneLight]

I can see you put a lot of thought into your reply, and I am grateful of your commitment.  Unlike you, I don't believe God needs to give knowledge of the bible to someone who has passed without ever hearing scripture.  I believe, as it says in the verses I provided, that those who have not heard, in their heart, knows through nature, that there is a God and they will follow His leading in their heart, though they do not know His name, are His and will be judged accordingly by Jesus.  Scripture tells us that God makes Himself known to everyone through His creation, and those who see Him in His work, and follows the leading of God in their lives, will, by their choice, obey His leading.  You see, God is far above us in every way and does know the end of all.  Just by the person listening to Him and following Him, without knowing scripture, speaks volumes of the heart of the person.

How I wish what you say is truth, then the good news to those who know that there is God will be to have and maintain a good consience.      And to those who have a good consience, the good news will be to know that there is God. 

Then many will be saved who have not believe in Jesus Christ. 

i am convince that's not the message Paul is trying to get through with this passage, 

I know also, that's not what you believe and that's not what you teach, but that's how it comes out from your statement.

Those people are not saved. No one can be saved, by believing there is God and having a good consience. 

No one can be under the blood of Jesus Christ by applying those two principals. And no one can receive the spirit of Christ this way. And no one can be a heir or co-heir of the heavens together with Jesus Christ. 

Sorry but not the teaching of Paul of how we inherit heavens.

 

How can one believe in Jesus if they have never heard of Jesus before?  Notice that Romans 2:14-16 speak of those who never heard scripture for they did not have the law.  Yet, they, in their hearts, do according to the law.  Remember what was said in Matthew 22:34-40, when Jesus was asked “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”, his reply was  "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”" 

Do take not that Jesus was being asked about the law.  Jesus looks into the hearts of each person, and judges them accordingly.

[Your closest friendnt]

Matthew 22:34-40,

Jesus was taulking to the Jews, who had the blood line of Abraham, the sircumsition, one God, the creator, who celebrated their religious holidays, who had the need of the Temple, and the priesthood and so on.

He did not tell them the time has come, to leave all those things behind, and practice the greate commandment to go to heaven. No he did not. 

Neither he told them that those without the scriptures they will be saved by practicing the great commandment.( the Gentiles ).

I am the way to the Father in Heaven, no one is going there, only through me, I am the door. 

He did not say those who never heard the Gospel of Jesus, they will be save by obedience to the Gospel of the great commandment, and the knowledge that there is a God.

Instant he said this the blood of the new covenant, which it's going to be shed for the forgiveness of your sins.

Forgiveness of SINS does not come through the obedience to the great commandment and or the believe that there is one God, and or through the Gospel of having a pure heart without faith in Jesus Christ who died  for that propose to give us the forgiveness of Sins, the eternal life, and the heavenly inheritance.

The only way to have peace with the Heavenly Father is through the Attonment of the blood of Jesus, and that's how we receive of his spirit.

He said if you don't have me, you are still in your sins, and you don't have God.

[JohnD]

The answer is best understood from God's perspective rather than man's perspective.

The fact that anyone can be saved at all is the result of the miracles of God (Luke 18:26-27) and the devotion of Christ Jesus to his Father † and to saving humanity.

Those who call this narrow minded should consider God would have been totally exonerated if he did not offer humanity salvation at all in any form. He could have said "I gave man

choice. Man chose to eat the fruit of the tree of death rather than the tree of life. It is finished."

But he didn't.

It is good to have compassion on people. Let us all evangelize all creatures with the fervor of the Apostle Paul!

Jesus clearly paid the price for all man to be saved (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2). But that prepaid price requires faith to activate it (John 3:16-18).

It has to be each individual's choice.

Personal opinion (meaning it's just that): since God knows who will and who will not believe, it does not make sense that he will allow one who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to live this life with no Gospel witness and go to hell. That this may be the reason history is so long (taking this long to bring those who will believe to where and when in history they will hear the Gospel... given the reluctance of most Christians to preach the Gospel to every creature). So if someone dies in unbelief they were not going to believe (and I say that with reverence and fear that there but for the Grace of God go I).

__________________________________________________

† In passages like John 20:17 the relationship between Jesus and the Father is separated from the relationship between the Father and the rest of us since Jesus alone is his Son. We are sons of the Father through adoption (Romans 8:15). Jesus (preincarnate) is the lone Creator in the beginning (Isaiah 44:24) in company with the Father (1 John 1:1-2) and the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:1-2) but acting alone in creation in the beginning (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16). Hebrews 1:1-2 speaks as Jesus being the one in the Godhead who created... not meaning that all three in the Godhead created and Jesus was some sort of medium through which it was done (like the Christadelphian cults [where the Watchtower got it from] suggest). Until recent comments were made by the Donald, ahem, which I do not buy btw, I used him as an example about Hebrews 1:1-2 in similar language saying that the Trump family fortune was amassed by Donald Sr.

To address some theology expressed here that needs some tweaking, we as Christians are not the children of Jesus, but the adopted children of his Father. The angels and humanity are children (sons of) the preincarnate Jesus (God the Word, lone Creator in the beginning, who became Jesus in the incarnation: the body of which is the lone creation of the Father {see John 1:14b, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5} ).

And spiritual death is not biblical. Death is used as an example of separation from God, I suppose (though the references escape me). But the second death is of humans who are raised to glorify Christ and are cast into the Lake of fire to die again (physically) while their spirits live on in hell forever. Spiritual death is an oxymoron like life-death or living dead. Spirit = life. 

[gdemoss]

I don't buy God being exonerated if he chose to sit back and judge man worthy of death and eternal torment because he gave man a choice and man chose to eat.  If that were the right thing to do God would have done it.  It wasn't and by doing so God would have been unrighteous.  Those who have this worlds goods and see their brother have need but with hold compassion are said not to have the love of God in them.  For God to see us have need and with hold compassion would make him unloving not having the love of God in himself. 

No God must act according to his own nature.  Therefore I become weak and needy without understanding saying I see not so that God might live up to his own character and give me what I so desperately need.  Salvation first followed by all else I lack.

[Your closest friendnt]

By the time Jesus Christ shed the blood of the new covenant, many (everyone had died) people had died without having receive the life from the life giver, who is Jesus Christ. Jesus was the only man born from a woman without the fallen inheritance in him. He did not have  an earthly father like all the rest of us, except Adam, who had the same kind of life in him as his creator God. 

Later on we learn that God the creator was not the Heavenly Father, who heavenly Father remain in Haevens, but had sent his Son who was also God as he came from the father. 

 

Jesus was born withthe life of God in him and he was not separated from the Heavenly Father, as the rest of us all were separated. This was made possible, because the Creator of all including Man, who later was the Lord God, empty him self from everything he had to be born into our world through a woman. ( Emmanuel, God with us), he did not bring anything from the past with him, only his LIFE.

As he was growing up he had constant communication with tha Heavenly Father, who informed Jesus about everything he needed to know, and of course, who he really is and was before been born into our world, and guilted him in fullfiling his mission.

at the time of Jesus death on the cross that's the only time Jesus and the Father got separated, and that's because the Father can not go where Jesus was going. Jesus was a Man and the father was not. The Father can not go down to Hades in the head quarters of the devil, but Jesus as a man out of his body at time of death he could. As of matter of fact, the Devil took him down there (he had not choice but to take him, because mankind was his inheritance).

jesus right after his death went first to the children of Abraham who were waiting for him to take them out from there, by giving them the life.(of course Jonh the Baptist who was going before the Lord, had prepare them for the coming of the Christ, and all must have believed and wellcome Jesus as the Christ, after that Jesus went to all the rest down there in Hades and told them the Good News, of course everyone down there was out of their body, because the had died already. So they heard the Gospel out of their body and those who believed recieved the gift of eternal life out of their bodies. (then what Jesus spoke about it happens "the dead will rise first".

 

at that time we had a problem to be taken care of, there was only one inheritance for mankind and that's was Hades. What will happen to all those who believed and recieved the life of Crist down there. Will they remain down there? But The Father took care of that, and when he raised Jesus from the dead he gave him the Heavens as his inheritance, for him and for his children, that's why he kept saying where I will go you will come also, in my Fathers house there are many mansions prepare for those who beleive Jesus has died for our sins. 

 

Now it's made clear that those who did not hear the Gospel before while they lived, because that was not possible, Jesus had not died yet, they heard it out of their bodies and that's how they made their decision.

 

So is the same for everyone else who has died without hearing the Gospel while the lived, God has made provision to hear the Gospel out of their bodies like before and be given the opportunity to make their decision.

So every one must here the Gospel and be judge according to their faith in Jesus Christ, Heaven is his inheritance The Father has given to him all Authority in Heaven and on earth, he is the Judge off all because he has died for all.