Junipero Serra declared to be "a saint"

[Omegaman 3.0]

I think the problem lies in the fact, that the RCC has hijacked a new testament term, and attemped to give it a non biblical meaning. If they had just invented a new word to represent their invented concept of sainthood, there would not be much of an issue.

The Greek word ἁγίοις, appears in the New Testament only as a plural. In other words, there is never a sentence that says anything like "saint John", or "John the saint" etc. The word is always plural, as in "all the saints". In reality, it is not really a noun, as much as it is a adjective, it is descriptive. It just means different, distinguished, set apart, etc. God set certain people apart for His purposes, in the New Testament, this refers to Christians, the elect, the chosen, etc. Our word "Holy", is the same thing. It does not mean anything special that people do, it is a description of what God has done to certain people.

[FresnoJoe]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/23/dismay-left-pope-francis-canonizes-father-california/

While the left wingers are unhappy about the "canonization" of Junipero Serra (see above) by Pope Francis, Christians need to ask themselves whether this idea of "canonization" has any validity whatsoever.  Every person who is saved by God's grace is a saint.

Do you know what canonization means?

~

Beloved, Without Jesus

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

Not Much

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:10

The Process of Beatification & Canonization

The process of documenting the life and virtues of a holy man or woman.... https://www.ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

[hmbld]

 

No one prays to relics of the dead my friend.  

 

 

 

 

  On September 24, 2015 at 6:48:26 PM,  Ezra said:

 

 Serra only has one recent miracle to his name: the 2013 healing of a Native American woman who prayed to a relic of his.http://www.vox.com/2015/9/24/9391995/junipero-serra-saint-pope-francis

 

From Vatican radio website:

This was the final prayer of Pope Francis: 

"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”

 

Now, you can play word games, we all know that when a person's mortal body dies, they are considered "dead".  Pointing out that the soul lives on is true.  But just playing with wording.  I know I don't understand how a leader can pray to a patron saint to "grant us this grace". Please show an instance in the bible where we are directed to pray to someone who has died.  Or how someone could study the bible and call "all children of God, all of us, all of us!", when the bible clearly states only born again believers are His children, but that is already an entirely different thread.

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

No one prays to relics of the dead my friend.  

 

 

 

 

 

 Serra only has one recent miracle to his name: the 2013 healing of a Native American woman who prayed to a relic of his.http://www.vox.com/2015/9/24/9391995/junipero-serra-saint-pope-francis

 

From Vatican radio website:

This was the final prayer of Pope Francis: 

"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”

 

Now, you can play word games, we all know that when a person's mortal body dies, they are considered "dead".  Pointing out that the soul lives on is true.  But just playing with wording.  I know I don't understand how a leader can pray to a patron saint to "grant us this grace". Please show an instance in the bible where we are directed to pray to someone who has died.  Or how someone could study the bible and call "all children of God, all of us, all of us!", when the bible clearly states only born again believers are His children, but that is already an entirely different thread.

It is simply a matter of how the Church expresses itself  -  it is God who grants the grace.  This is asking for the prayers of this saint to that end.  Nothing more.     This is similar to how one uses words in poetry.   Now you can insist that I am wrong, and then that would simply mean you are reading these words without the context of Catholic teaching to interpret them properly, or you can accept that these words don't quite say what they appear to you to be saying on a superficial level.

Whatever one asks of a saint in heaven, it is with the very sure knowledge it is God who is the source.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/23/dismay-left-pope-francis-canonizes-father-california/

While the left wingers are unhappy about the "canonization" of Junipero Serra (see above) by Pope Francis, Christians need to ask themselves whether this idea of "canonization" has any validity whatsoever.  Every person who is saved by God's grace is a saint.

Do you know what canonization means?

~

Beloved, Without Jesus

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

Not Much

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:10

 

The Process of Beatification & Canonization

The process of documenting the life and virtues of a holy man or woman.... https://www.ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

 

 

 

The Process of Beatification & Canonization

The process of documenting the life and virtues of a holy man or woman.... https://www.ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

 

Thank you FresnoJoe

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[hmbld]

Now you can insist that I am wrong, and then that would simply mean you are reading these words without the context of Catholic teaching to interpret them properly, or you can accept that these words don't quite say what they appear to you to be saying on a superficial level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So without formal catholic training on how to interpret properly, i should assume everything I hear the pope say, actually means something he did not say. So, I won't insist your wrong, but I find it odd you think everyone misunderstands what either you clearly say, or the catholic church actually teaches.  Even when documented proof is given, you insist it is a misunderstanding.  

[thereselittleflower]

Now you can insist that I am wrong, and then that would simply mean you are reading these words without the context of Catholic teaching to interpret them properly, or you can accept that these words don't quite say what they appear to you to be saying on a superficial level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So without formal catholic training on how to interpret properly, i should assume everything I hear the pope say, actually means something he did not say. So, I won't insist your wrong, but I find it odd you think everyone misunderstands what either you clearly say, or the catholic church actually teaches.  Even when documented proof is given, you insist it is a misunderstanding.  

It means the wisest course of action is to learn what Catholics mean by the words they use and exercise the wisdom of restraint until you do.

All you have given documented proof of is your misunderstanding of the Pope's words in light of the Catholic faith.

 

 

 

 

[hmbld]

Now you can insist that I am wrong, and then that would simply mean you are reading these words without the context of Catholic teaching to interpret them properly, or you can accept that these words don't quite say what they appear to you to be saying on a superficial level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So without formal catholic training on how to interpret properly, i should assume everything I hear the pope say, actually means something he did not say. So, I won't insist your wrong, but I find it odd you think everyone misunderstands what either you clearly say, or the catholic church actually teaches.  Even when documented proof is given, you insist it is a misunderstanding.  

 

It means the wisest course of action is to learn what Catholics mean by the words they use and exercise the wisdom of restraint until you do.

All you have given documented proof of is your misunderstanding of the Pope's words in light of the Catholic faith.

 

 

 

 

I see.  So then why does the pope speak to the world then if only a catholic can understand his meaning? Does this "misunderstanding" manner of defense of unbiblical prayers to relics or canonized saints actually work?

[other one]

Now you can insist that I am wrong, and then that would simply mean you are reading these words without the context of Catholic teaching to interpret them properly, or you can accept that these words don't quite say what they appear to you to be saying on a superficial level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So without formal catholic training on how to interpret properly, i should assume everything I hear the pope say, actually means something he did not say. So, I won't insist your wrong, but I find it odd you think everyone misunderstands what either you clearly say, or the catholic church actually teaches.  Even when documented proof is given, you insist it is a misunderstanding.  

 

It means the wisest course of action is to learn what Catholics mean by the words they use and exercise the wisdom of restraint until you do.

All you have given documented proof of is your misunderstanding of the Pope's words in light of the Catholic faith.

 

 

 

 

I see.  So then why does the pope speak to the world then if only a catholic can understand his meaning? Does this "misunderstanding" manner of defense of unbiblical prayers to relics or canonized saints actually work?

who is primarily in control of planet earth until Jesus comes back....       of course those prayers could work for most things.

[thereselittleflower]

Now you can insist that I am wrong, and then that would simply mean you are reading these words without the context of Catholic teaching to interpret them properly, or you can accept that these words don't quite say what they appear to you to be saying on a superficial level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So without formal catholic training on how to interpret properly, i should assume everything I hear the pope say, actually means something he did not say. So, I won't insist your wrong, but I find it odd you think everyone misunderstands what either you clearly say, or the catholic church actually teaches.  Even when documented proof is given, you insist it is a misunderstanding.  

 

It means the wisest course of action is to learn what Catholics mean by the words they use and exercise the wisdom of restraint until you do.

All you have given documented proof of is your misunderstanding of the Pope's words in light of the Catholic faith.

 

 

 

 

I see.  So then why does the pope speak to the world then if only a catholic can understand his meaning? Does this "misunderstanding" manner of defense of unbiblical prayers to relics or canonized saints actually work?

Was he speaking to the world?  I thought he was praying and speaking to God?

What you consider unbibllical, the very Early Church believed and taught as truth and in keeping with the scriptures.