Sola Scriptura

[thereselittleflower]

 

The problem is that the RCC  retro-actively reads their "traditions"  into the NT.   Many RCC traditions are post biblical and were never known by any of the disciples.  The RCC tries, in futility, to assert that it's heretical and Christless traditions are what Paul was talking about.   

It is interesting how Orthodox Judaism and its rabbinic succession and other errors run parallel to the RCC.   They both claim all kinds of heresies.

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice.

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 

1Co 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 

Act 17:10-11 NKJV  Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.  (11)  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The scriptures are from where all truth flows, because the scriptures were God breathed. Paul praised the bereans for searching the scriptures instead of just listening to what he said. The idea that the traditions of men can ever supersede or even be equivalent to God's word is so ridiculous as to be farcical, especially when you look at how those "traditions" have been manipulated over the centuries (indulgences, really?).

Isa 40:8  The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

 

2 Ti 3:16    Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God?

1 Cor 4:6 is interesting.    It is actually not clear at all what Paul is referring to by "what is written" :

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written: meaning, either in the word of God in general; or in some particular passages of Scripture he might have respect to; or rather in the above places in this, and the foregoing chapter, where he gives the fore mentioned characters of ministers; where, in the apostles themselves, in their own words, from their own account, they might learn, on the one hand, not to ascribe too much to them, nor, on the other hand, to detract from their just character and usefulness: and also, 

Pulpit Commentary

 The phrase, "which have been written," is of very uncertain meaning.

 

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Above that which is written - Probably referring to what he had said in 1 Corinthians 3:5-9, 1 Corinthians 3:21; 1 Corinthians 4:1.

 

Acts 17:10-11 - yes it is important to use scripture.   But this as well does not say we use scripture alone or command us to use scripture alone.

 

Is 40:8  is also quite interesting for it does not refer to what is written at all, but what is spoken - "word":

דָּבָר dâbâr, daw-baw'; from H1696; a word; by implication, a matter (as spoken of) or thing; 

speech, word, speaking, thing

1. speech

2. saying, utterance

3. word, words

4. business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)

 

So the SPOKEN word of God endures forever.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Guest shiloh357]

The problem is that the RCC  retro-actively reads their "traditions"  into the NT.   Many RCC traditions are post biblical and were never known by any of the disciples.  The RCC tries, in futility, to assert that it's heretical and Christless traditions are what Paul was talking about.   

It is interesting how Orthodox Judaism and its rabbinic succession and other errors run parallel to the RCC.   They both claim all kinds of heresies.

 

..

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice.

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura 

 

Can you properly define what Sola Scriptura is?  And if so, tell us what it is.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

The problem is that the RCC  retro-actively reads their "traditions"  into the NT.   Many RCC traditions are post biblical and were never known by any of the disciples.  The RCC tries, in futility, to assert that it's heretical and Christless traditions are what Paul was talking about.   

It is interesting how Orthodox Judaism and its rabbinic succession and other errors run parallel to the RCC.   They both claim all kinds of heresies.

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice.

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 

1Co 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 

Act 17:10-11 NKJV  Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.  (11)  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The scriptures are from where all truth flows, because the scriptures were God breathed. Paul praised the bereans for searching the scriptures instead of just listening to what he said. The idea that the traditions of men can ever supersede or even be equivalent to God's word is so ridiculous as to be farcical, especially when you look at how those "traditions" have been manipulated over the centuries (indulgences, really?).

Isa 40:8  The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

 

2 Ti 3:16    Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God?

Nothing else is ever referred to as "inspired" other than Scripture.   Nothing else can be inerrant, infallible, or immutable.   No other document on earth bears the same marks of divine inspiration other than the Bible.   No teaching or tradition by anyone is held up as having the same marks of divine inspiration as the Bible has.

The Bible alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Christian faith and practice.  No human teachings and no "sacred traditions" of the RCC are inspired by God.

We don't need a verse that says, "only the Bible is inspired."  That's because neither Paul or any other of the Apostles claimed anything outside of the Bible, including their own extra-biblical teachings God did not include as part of Scripture, to be inspired.  

 

[FresnoJoe]

 Can you properly define what Sola Scriptura is?  And if so, tell us what it is.

~

By Scripture

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luke 4:4 (King James Version)

Alone

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11 (King James Version)

By Scripture

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (New International Version)

Alone

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Ephesians 6:7 (King James Version)

By Scripture

There is nothing but truth in your word, and all of your righteous regulations endure forever. Psalms 119:160 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

 

The problem is that the RCC  retro-actively reads their "traditions"  into the NT.   Many RCC traditions are post biblical and were never known by any of the disciples.  The RCC tries, in futility, to assert that it's heretical and Christless traditions are what Paul was talking about.   

It is interesting how Orthodox Judaism and its rabbinic succession and other errors run parallel to the RCC.   They both claim all kinds of heresies.

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice.

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 

1Co 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 

Act 17:10-11 NKJV  Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.  (11)  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The scriptures are from where all truth flows, because the scriptures were God breathed. Paul praised the bereans for searching the scriptures instead of just listening to what he said. The idea that the traditions of men can ever supersede or even be equivalent to God's word is so ridiculous as to be farcical, especially when you look at how those "traditions" have been manipulated over the centuries (indulgences, really?).

Isa 40:8  The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

 

2 Ti 3:16    Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God?

Nothing else is ever referred to as "inspired" other than Scripture.   Nothing else can be inerrant, infallible, or immutable.   No other document on earth bears the same marks of divine inspiration other than the Bible.   No teaching or tradition by anyone is held up as having the same marks of divine inspiration as the Bible has.

The Bible alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Christian faith and practice.  No human teachings and no "sacred traditions" of the RCC are inspired by God.

We don't need a verse that says, "only the Bible is inspired."  That's because neither Paul or any other of the Apostles claimed anything outside of the Bible, including their own extra-biblical teachings God did not include as part of Scripture, to be inspired.  

 

Sigh, Shiloh as it is all too often you twist and ignore. 

Jesus left the deposit of faith orally with the Apostles. Are you going to claim that was not inspired? So your entire argument falls apart. Where in scripture can you back up your claims. You can not. It was the Church, that determined which books  where to be considered inspired while being guided by the Holy Spirit. 

Show me using scripture which books where to be considered inspired and which ones where not. 

We have Sacride Scripture and Sacride Tradition (the oral deposit of faith) and he left his Church to teach and guide his people. 

Shiloh your fallible tradition is dependant upon the Church. 

[Ezra]

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4).

That's just for starters.  Please read and study Psalm 119.

[hmbld]

 

The problem is that the RCC  retro-actively reads their "traditions"  into the NT.   Many RCC traditions are post biblical and were never known by any of the disciples.  The RCC tries, in futility, to assert that it's heretical and Christless traditions are what Paul was talking about.   

It is interesting how Orthodox Judaism and its rabbinic succession and other errors run parallel to the RCC.   They both claim all kinds of heresies.

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice.

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 

1Co 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 

Act 17:10-11 NKJV  Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.  (11)  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The scriptures are from where all truth flows, because the scriptures were God breathed. Paul praised the bereans for searching the scriptures instead of just listening to what he said. The idea that the traditions of men can ever supersede or even be equivalent to God's word is so ridiculous as to be farcical, especially when you look at how those "traditions" have been manipulated over the centuries (indulgences, really?).

Isa 40:8  The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

 

2 Ti 3:16    Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God?

Nothing else is ever referred to as "inspired" other than Scripture.   Nothing else can be inerrant, infallible, or immutable.   No other document on earth bears the same marks of divine inspiration other than the Bible.   No teaching or tradition by anyone is held up as having the same marks of divine inspiration as the Bible has.

The Bible alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Christian faith and practice.  No human teachings and no "sacred traditions" of the RCC are inspired by God.

We don't need a verse that says, "only the Bible is inspired."  That's because neither Paul or any other of the Apostles claimed anything outside of the Bible, including their own extra-biblical teachings God did not include as part of Scripture, to be inspired.  

 

Sigh, Shiloh as it is all too often you twist and ignore. 

Jesus left the deposit of faith orally with the Apostles. Are you going to claim that was not inspired? So your entire argument falls apart. Where in scripture can you back up your claims. You can not. It was the Church, that determined which books  where to be considered inspired while being guided by the Holy Spirit. 

Show me using scripture which books where to be considered inspired and which ones where not. 

We have Sacride Scripture and Sacride Tradition (the oral deposit of faith) and he left his Church to teach and guide his people. 

Shiloh your fallible tradition is dependant upon the Church. 

What Jesus spoke was recorded in scripture, which is inspired.  Traditions are spoken of in a very poor light in scripture.  What makes anyone think God would not record in scripture that which He wants to tell us?  Traditions are of men.

Mark 7:6-8

6He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“ ‘These people honor me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me.

7They worship me in vain;

their teachings are merely human rules.’^b

8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

[thereselittleflower]

 

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4).

That's just for starters.  Please read and study Psalm 119.

 

Yes, He appealed to scripture to deal with temptation..

Jesus also appealed to Tradition when He told the people to obey the Scribes and Pharisees  -  and He did not say  "It is written."    He appealed to something that was not written.  He appealed to Tradition:

Matthew 23

1Then spoke Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; 

 

 

 

2 Ti 3:16    Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God?

Nothing else is ever referred to as "inspired" other than Scripture.   Nothing else can be inerrant, infallible, or immutable.   No other document on earth bears the same marks of divine inspiration other than the Bible.   No teaching or tradition by anyone is held up as having the same marks of divine inspiration as the Bible has.

The Bible alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Christian faith and practice.  No human teachings and no "sacred traditions" of the RCC are inspired by God.

We don't need a verse that says, "only the Bible is inspired."  That's because neither Paul or any other of the Apostles claimed anything outside of the Bible, including their own extra-biblical teachings God did not include as part of Scripture, to be inspired.  

 

 

I guess Jesus didn't know what He was doing then when He appealed to Tradition, using its authority to base His command to the people  -  the Tradition of the Seat of Moses.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[Guest shiloh357]

 

The problem is that the RCC  retro-actively reads their "traditions"  into the NT.   Many RCC traditions are post biblical and were never known by any of the disciples.  The RCC tries, in futility, to assert that it's heretical and Christless traditions are what Paul was talking about.   

It is interesting how Orthodox Judaism and its rabbinic succession and other errors run parallel to the RCC.   They both claim all kinds of heresies.

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice.

Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 

1Co 4:6  Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 

Act 17:10-11 NKJV  Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.  (11)  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

The scriptures are from where all truth flows, because the scriptures were God breathed. Paul praised the bereans for searching the scriptures instead of just listening to what he said. The idea that the traditions of men can ever supersede or even be equivalent to God's word is so ridiculous as to be farcical, especially when you look at how those "traditions" have been manipulated over the centuries (indulgences, really?).

Isa 40:8  The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

 

2 Ti 3:16    Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God?

Nothing else is ever referred to as "inspired" other than Scripture.   Nothing else can be inerrant, infallible, or immutable.   No other document on earth bears the same marks of divine inspiration other than the Bible.   No teaching or tradition by anyone is held up as having the same marks of divine inspiration as the Bible has.

The Bible alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Christian faith and practice.  No human teachings and no "sacred traditions" of the RCC are inspired by God.

We don't need a verse that says, "only the Bible is inspired."  That's because neither Paul or any other of the Apostles claimed anything outside of the Bible, including their own extra-biblical teachings God did not include as part of Scripture, to be inspired.  

 

Sigh, Shiloh as it is all too often you twist and ignore. 

Jesus left the deposit of faith orally with the Apostles. Are you going to claim that was not inspired? So your entire argument falls apart. Where in scripture can you back up your claims. You can not. It was the Church, that determined which books  where to be considered inspired while being guided by the Holy Spirit. 

Show me using scripture which books where to be considered inspired and which ones where not. 

We have Sacride Scripture and Sacride Tradition (the oral deposit of faith) and he left his Church to teach and guide his people. 

Shiloh your fallible tradition is dependant upon the Church. 

No Jesus' oral teachings were not inspired.  Jesus was God.  As God, Jesus was not "inspired."   The Apostles were inspired to write what Jesus said.   But Jesus was not operating under "inspiration."    God was not inspiring Himself. So I am not twisting or ignoring anything.

No, the Church did not decide which books were inspired.  The Church discovered which books were inspired.  The Bible is not servant to the Church.  The Church did not sit in judgment on the Scriptures and decide what is or is not Scripture.

As far as we know, the first three Gospels were already considered Scripture as Mark was written first, Matthew was written next, and Luke used Mark and Matthew to compose His Gospel.  Paul quoted from Luke calling it Scripture in I Tim. 5:18.  He was quoting from Luke. 10:7. So at least three of the Gospels were already part of the canon during Paul's ministry, since Luke    Peter refers to Paul's writings as Scripture in II Pet. 3:16.   So there is evidence from Scripture that as far back as the first century, there was already a knowledge of what would be included in the canon of Scripture. 

God left us no oral deposit of faith.  That is a RCC myth.

[Steve_S]

Some in this thread are getting dangerously close to attempting to convince people that traditions are equal or above the scripture. This is not something that we would allow.