Things the Bible DOES say about the End Times

[Omegaman 3.0]

Well, since I made a list once about some things the Bible does not say about the End Times, maybe I should list some thing that it does say. Now, I am expecting, that no one will argue that these things are not in the Bible, but I do not reasonably expect that there will not be people, who will want to comment on how these things do not mean what they appear to mean. I expect some comments from the Bible + crowd. The numbers are there to make it easier to reference things said, for any who find quoting difficult to do.

So, in no particular order, and some possible redundancy:

1. There will be a time of trouble whcih Jesus called birth pangs

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2. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation.

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3. There will be a specific sign to warn of it's nearness.

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4. Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited it length to preserve life.

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5. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky.

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6. He then will send angels to gather His elect.

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7. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return

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8. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers

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9. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time.

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10. There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church.

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11. The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise first, then the living Christians join them in the air.

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12. Believers are to look for a man of lawlessness to be revealed, and by that will know that the 2nd coming of Jesus, has become imminent.

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13. Jesus will come like a thief on unbelievers, while watchful Christians will know that He is about to come.

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14. Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection

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Taken from http://omegazine.com/nutshell.html

[Guest]

I believe that Scripture states that the Rapture will occur prior to the Tribulation.

[coheir]

#12 we may have seen him in the last eight years

[OakWood]

I believe that Scripture states that the Rapture will occur prior to the Tribulation.

I'm not sure that it does (it may or may not do), but either way the OP left that rather vague...... "there will be a time". Omegaman never claimed that all ten points were chronological although some are and generally they appear to be.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Rick_Parker said:

"I believe that Scripture states that the Rapture will occur prior to the Tribulation."

My reply: A lot of sincere believers do also Rick, you are in good company. I jut would like to see a single one of them, show us where, in the Bible, that is stated! It used to be, I believed the Bible said that also, then I read it, and found it missing, so, I reluctantly had to alter my view. After coming to the conclusion, that the church would probably go through the tribulation, is hoped I was wrong, wanted the pre-trib rapturists to be correct. I no longer think that way. 

They way I look at that now, is that I see what Jesus did, in the garden, where asked if there was a way to be spared, but . . . He also tempered that desire, with a greater desire, that of God's will being done. I do not claim to be certain of what God's will is in the area, but it appears to me, that He intends for the church to go through the tribulation.

IF that is the case, then that is what I want, God's will. God can be greatly glorified, by the the willingness of those faithful to Him, to suffer for His sake, to be faithful, even while facing pain and death. I would not willingly choose, to deprive God of that glory. 

Additionally, trials and tribulations are tools the Lord used to perfect His people, why would I not want His church perfected? It is a great honor, to suffer for His sake, why would we reject such an honor?

Persecution also, tends to pull the weeds out of the church. Those who are pretenders or self deceived, will bail out and quit. Those who are truly the saints, will persevere to the end.

Noting that has been God's way all along, from Genesis through Revelation, in history, in the present, and in the future (apparently) that His righteous people followers suffer, why should I suppose that late in time, God will change His well established ways, and pick one narrow generation, to escape these things, when others, many more worthy, did not?

So, I no longer look for the easy way out. I hope, that by God's grace, I might be allowed to suffer for Him, and to have Him use me for His glory. Maybe that is just mebeing selfish, since Jesus said: "Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Anyway, just some thoughts there Rick!

Oakwood said:

"I'm not sure that it does (it may or may not do), but either way the OP left that rather vague...... "there will be a time". Omegaman never claimed that all ten points were chronological although some are and generally they appear to be."

My reply: Thank you Oakwood, for taking the time to note carefully what I did, and did not say. I often, have to reply to posts because people fail to do that, and they respond to ideas I never posited. It is refreshing when people actually read what is actually said and respond to that, instead of creating (intentionally or not) straw man arguments. By the way, there was a link in that OP to my nutshell page, where I list basically these same points, with the verses that support them and some commentary as well, that probably makes if clearer what I see as the chronology of these things, but even there, I hope people notice what I am saying as well as what I am not saying. Thanks for participating.

 

[Ezra]

I believe that Scripture states that the Rapture will occur prior to the Tribulation.

Rick,

Many of us believe as you do so hold fast to your beliefs.  Those who hold other views will never change them so we will always be at an impasse. They are still brothers and sisters in Christ -- simply misguided.

[Last Daze]

I believe that Scripture states that the Rapture will occur prior to the Tribulation.

Rick,

Many of us believe as you do so hold fast to your beliefs.  Those who hold other views will never change them so we will always be at an impasse. They are still brothers and sisters in Christ -- simply misguided.

You can wish upon a star all you want but that will not affect the way that end time events unfold.  God is not persuaded by what we think will happen.  A better suggestion than leaning on a house of cards is to be ready, come what may.  Five were prepared.  Five were foolish.

[Omegaman 3.0]

 

 

Quoting Ezra: " Rick,

Many of us believe as you do so hold fast to your beliefs.  Those who hold other views will never change them so we will always be at an impasse. They are still brothers and sisters in Christ -- simply misguided. "

LOL Ezra, How do you know two things:

1. Who is misguided

2. That people do not change and will always be at an impasse.

People do change, people here at worthy have changed. In fact, I am one of them. Perhaps those whoce philosphy is:

"Don't confuse me with facts, mymind is made up" will never change, and perhaps you believe people won't change, because that is your philosophy. I you so sure that people do not change? Makes evangelism rather a waist of time, don't you think. If the people of God cannot change,what chance does the unbeleiver have? Thankfully, you are not in control, God is!

[other one]

 

 

Quoting Ezra: " Rick,

Many of us believe as you do so hold fast to your beliefs.  Those who hold other views will never change them so we will always be at an impasse. They are still brothers and sisters in Christ -- simply misguided. "

LOL Ezra, How do you know two things:

1. Who is misguided

2. That people do not change and will always be at an impasse.

People do change, people here at worthy have changed. In fact, I am one of them. Perhaps those whoce philosphy is:

"Don't confuse me with facts, mymind is made up" will never change, and perhaps you believe people won't change, because that is your philosophy. I you so sure that people do not change? Makes evangelism rather a waist of time, don't you think. If the people of God cannot change,what chance does the unbeleiver have? Thankfully, you are not in control, God is!

I have changed many points of my general Chirstian Philosophy in the last ten years I've been here....     And Nebula was responsible for several ....    and I do miss her being here.   And I'm about as hard headed as anyone I know here.

[missmuffet]

I believe that Scripture states that the Rapture will occur prior to the Tribulation.

Me too Rick.