The Last Trumpet

[Daniel 11:36]

Pre trib is impossible, simply count the number of resurrections it requires

 

Only one, just before the 70th week begins

And there will be another at the end of the coming tribulation for those who turn to the Lord during the period [Revelation 11:12; 20:4]

Those of the pre-tribulation exit are these .... And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them

Edited January 21, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Pre trib is impossible, simply count the number of resurrections it requires

 

Only one, just before the 70th week begins

And there will be another at the end of the coming tribulation for those who turn to the Lord during the period [Revelation 11:12; 20:4]

Those of the pre-tribulation exit are these .... And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them

Here is the rest of the sentence:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, andjudgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So as you can see for yourself, the FIRST resurrection includes those who went through the tribulation...period.

Now the NEXT verse tells us about numbering the resurrections:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So right there you run out of resurrections. Pre trib would demand some other unlisted resurrection. Impossible!

Edited January 21, 2018 by Uriah

[Daniel 11:36]

Keep studying your Bible

Maybe you will get the correct rendering 

[Daniel 11:36]

The above presentation is the correct one

[inchrist]

8 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

It is a mistake to say that the trumpet of the rapture and the last trumpet are one and the same.   But the last trumpet of 1 Cor 15, concerns the time to inherit the kingdom of God,  the promise made to Abraham,  Isaac ,  and Jacob.  And it is the 7th, or last trumpet of Rev. 11.  For it says,  that the kingdom's of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and HIS CHRIST.   

It also states time to judge the dead.

 

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

It also states time to judge the dead.

 

 

You can't expect someone to bother with such a minor detail when they are willing to disregard who is included in the first resurrection

[inchrist]

14 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

Is it a minor details that are being ignored in 1 Cor 15?

*[[1Co 15:19]] KJV* If in this life only we have hope IN CHRIST,  we are of all men most miserable.

WHO is the focus of this verse and those that immediately follow?  THOSE who are IN CHRIST.   THOSE who have believed in him.  Read on. 

*[[1Co 15:20]] KJV* But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUITS of THEM that slept.

Here we have the identity of those who rose from the dead at the time of Christ's resurrection.   Calling them the firstfruits,  saying that these are "THEM THAT SLEPT", past tense AND PLURAL "them", and not just Christ himself,  them being IN CHRIST.   Read some more. 

*[[1Co 15:21]] KJV* For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so IN CHRIST  shall all be made alive.

DO you see who is being referred to here?  THOSE who are IN CHRIST.  Read some more. 

*[[1Co 15:23]] KJV* But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

We havealready identified who the firstfruits are [past tense]. 

"Firstfruits" is singular not plural.

Part of Speech: Noun

Case: Nominative
Gender: Feminine
Number: Singular

Christ is the firstfruit of those who sleep

 

...................

You will find all of this at the 7th trumpet

2 Timothy 4:1 ►

Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by inchrist

[inchrist]

7 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

I didnt add the "s" to firstfruit.  It is there in KJV.  IF I say that there is fruit on the table,  does that preclude there being more than one?  No,  it does not.   "Fruit" is obviously in the singular tense,  but can refer to the plural without the added "s". 

And that would depend on context in it's singular form or plural form....however it is in its singular form

And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy

Compared to 

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept

1 cor 15:20 has first fruit pointing directly to Christ

Further there is no "them" in the original text of the verse 1 Cor 15:20 to determine past tense.

What is in the original text is τῶν Which is a definitive article

You have no past tense "them"

You are relying solely on ambiguity 

[Daniel 11:36]

There are 10 trumpets involved

2 for the Lord's "church" .... the first in Revelation 1:10-11 and the second in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16

7 tribulation trumpets .... Revelation 8:2

1 the trumpet calling for Israel across the earth to bring the mortal Israelites back to Israel at the end of the tribulation period .... Matthew 24:31

Edited March 13, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[inchrist]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

And Paul is clearly speaking only of the resurrection OF LIFE to them who are "in Christ". 

Yes which is to eternal life and as far as the facts go; 

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 that God has resurrected no one to eternal life as an immortal spirit yet except for Christ.

God will change the righteous dead along with living of those who are in Christ to immortal beings when Christ returns.

Those who were "resurrected"  in Matthew 27:52-53 is in the realm of ambiguity we do not have enough information that  they were raised to immortality....it is inference.

I do not operate in the realm of inference....I deal with facts.

And Matthew 27:52-53 to be classed in the same category as that of when Christ raised Lazarus- when Lazarus was resurrected was he ressurected to immortality?

Further enlight of this we return back to

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep

Fallen asleep is in the perfect tense -  basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed but the results of the action are continuing on, making them still asleep.

Which is qualified by Paul again when he states

But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruit; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

When he comes.....and when does Christ come?

2 Timothy 4:1 ►

Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge

At the 7th trumpet 

The time has come for judging the dead,
    and for rewarding your servants the prophets

Just as Paul prophesied 

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 New International Version (NIV)

⁵¹ Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— ⁵² in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed