Just what the heck IS the water??

[Pamelasv]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

[missmuffet]

It is the born again Christian who is steadfast through all trials.

[*Zion*]

Maybe it's referring to baptism as a physical manifestation/symbol of being born again?

[Deborah_]

It could be a response to an early heresy - people who couldn't accept that the Son of God could die, so they believed that Jesus received a kind of temporary divinity when He was baptised and had it taken away again just before He was crucified. So John would be emphasising that Jesus was the Son of God not only at His baptism (the water) but also at His death (the blood).

It could also be a reference to the Levitical ritual for the cleansing of lepers, which requires both blood and water (Leviticus 14:1-7).

[gdemoss]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

Pamela, you are provoking me to study harder.  God bless you greatly!

Lately I have been taking an approach that says maybe I don't know.  So I begin to search the Word in me for an answer.  Here are some notes:

The witness of water can be seen all throughout scripture as well as the witness of blood.  Abels blood cried out unto God bearing him witness that he was righteous.  The water removed out of the way of Gods people but flooded over the Egyptians bearing witness of both.  The water bore witness of the Israelites, Elijah and Elisha when they parted for them to cross the river.  The water bore witness of the wickedness of the earth when it overcame the world in the flood yet Noah was saved by that water.  Without the spilling of blood there is no remission.  Jesus resisted sin even unto blood.  The Holy Spirit bore witness of him through the resurrection from the dead after his blood was spilt.  I am quite sure that there is much much more but I believe much is hidden until the time is right.  Stay tuned into our Lord.  Love others with a fervent love as Christ loved us and you will see more and more.  Give his grace unto others and your eyes open wider and wider.  Maybe one day the water will bear witness of us, no?  God knows

 

[gdemoss]

Maybe the fire will bear witness of us when it refuses to burn us though it is busy consuming all that is around us while we enter into the Kingdom of our Holy Father upon the earth?

[Pamelasv]

Maybe it's referring to baptism as a physical manifestation/symbol of being born again?

A symbol of life?  I am thinking of revelations towards the end of 'the water of life.' 

[MorningGlory]

! John 5-7

'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God?  This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood.  It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify:  The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.'

 

I had thought it to be the Word at one point, because of Ephesians 5:26  where it says 'with the washing of water with the Word.'  But I guess I'm wrong.

'The Word' IS Jesus.

[enoob57]

In the most literal of sense we may center upon salvation in Jesus - His baptism (the water)  thru to His death (the blood) was the pathway paved
for us all enabling us to have His Life as a covering of our own... this was before creation event and it is in the election and foreknowledge
aspect of The Holy Trinity (One). It is the fulcrum point of eternity past into eternity future... and the fathom of it not until we lay our eyes upon
His Person- past the death of this body... Love, Steven

[Ezra]

Pamela,

Once again we have some issues because of what the modern Bible versions have done. I have contrasted the KJV with your translation below, and also explained the meaning of "water and blood":

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I John 5:5-8

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (KJV)

Who is the one who [instead of “he that”] overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son [“Son” not capitalized] of God? (your version)

Q. Does it matter if “Son” is capitalized or not? Is it not capitalized because it refers to the Only Begotten Son of God? Does it matter if translators do not translate word-for-word? [Questions for your consideration only]

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6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. (KJV)

This is the one [instead of “he that”] who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with [instead of “by”] the water only, but with [instead of “by”] the water and with [instead of “by”] the blood, [“even” omitted] Jesus Christ; not with [instead of “by”] the water only, but with [instead of “by”] the [added] water and the blood.  [“And” omitted] It is the Spirit who testifies [instead of “that bears witness], because the Spirit is the truth. (your version)

Q. Do those changes change the meaning? Is there a difference between “by” and “with”?  Are the “ands” in Scripture threre for a reason? Are men permitted to omit words at will? Is there a difference between “bears witness” and “testifies”, since bearing witness is a scriptural term? [Questions for your consideration only]

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7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (KJV)

THIS VERSE HAS BEEN EXPUNGED FROM ALL THE MODERN VERSIONS, EVEN THOUGH IT CLEARLY BEARS WITNESS TO THE TRIUNE GODHEAD AND HAS SUFFICIENT MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE. [Comment to indicate major omission]

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8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (KJV)

For there are three that testify: [instead of “bear witness”] [“in earth” omitted because the contrast is between “in heaven” and “in earth”] The Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.' [instead of “agree in one”] (your version)

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In what sense did Christ come “by water and blood”? We turn to John 19:32-36:

Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.  But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.  For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

This was John’s eyewitness account that the death of Christ on the Cross was unique.  While the two malefactors had not died, and therefore their legs were broken to hasten death, Christ had died at God the Father’s choosing (ahead of the thieves on their crosses), and when His side was pierced, both blood and water poured out to prove that He was really dead. Therefore His legs would not be broken, in order to fulfil the prophecy of the Passover Lamb, that not one bone of His should be broken. This is what John refers to in 1 Jn 5:6, and says that the Holy Spirit bears witness through this that Jesus was truly the Lamb of God, who took away the sin of the world.

Please note the significance of the outpouring of blood and water, which also has a spiritual significance pertaining to the cleansing of the sinner (Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible – Unabridged, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown). Christ was dead long before He was pierced.

And forthwith came thereout blood and water. 'It is now well known,' to use the words of Webster and Wilkinson, 'that the effect of long-continued and intense agony is frequently to produce a secretion of a colourless lymph within the pericardium (the membrane enveloping the heart), amounting in many cases to a very considerable quantity.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Ezra
Edited for clarity