THE SONS OF GOD AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN

[SINNERSAVED]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

The sons of God refers to angels in Job chapters 1 and 2. This is confirmed by:

Job 38:1–7 (AV)

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Unless Genesis 1 and 2 are wrong and God created the sons of Seth before he created the world.

There is another reference on the subject:

Luke 3:38 (AV)

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

But notice the distinction between the plural and the singular. Angels do not procreate. They are created each directly by God (and Adam was and as Jesus' humanity was). All of humanity comes from humanity through procreation with the exception of Christ of course* and Eve also but she was taken from Adam's side. So the sons of God cannot refer to humans but only to the first and last Adams. 

Angels do not procreate (Matthew 22:30). This does not mean they cannot procreate. So says the argument that angels cohabited with human females in Genesis 6. 

Some try to compromise the two arguments (angels versus sons of Seth) by saying angels possessed humans and then cohabited. But that would beg the question why only males were possessed?

And the nephilim mentioned in close proximity to Genesis 6:1-2 suggests their existence hinged on that act of procreation. And no normal human procreation produces giants / fallen ones / nephilim.

*Virgin birth / Marian surrogacy argument (subject for another thread).

The only argument that answers all problems is that fallen angels somehow managed to impregnate human females and have abnormal offspring by them.  And the only true objection to this argument is the refusal to believe it possible based on no supportive evidence for that impossibility. 

I remember feeling the same way at age 7 about not believing anything other than the stork bringing all babies was true. It was 1968 and we lived in a world where kids were not exposed to the birds and the bees before they were out of diapers themselves. 

that is a awesome view and I understand, for I am just as confused, so how will we ever find out,? maybe will  ask Jesus when we get to heaven.

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Job 1:6–7 (AV)

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 2:1–2 (AV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Now if this place of presentation was in heaven, then the sons of Seth explanation for Genesis 6 has a real problem. For no man has ascended to heaven or descended from heaven before Jesus (John 3:13).

If this place of presentation was on the earth, we are hard pressed to find record of it (a pre-Jerusalem setting) in the biblical record, the historic record, or the archaeological record. 

I can only point again to the genetic record; no nonhuman dna in our species.  The 'giants' had to be human.  Or, alternatively, God destroyed them and all their descendants.  That would erase their dna from the record.  Anyway, if they were angelic beings they would not be able to procreate.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

I can only point again to the genetic record; no nonhuman dna in our species.  The 'giants' had to be human.  Or, alternatively, God destroyed them and all their descendants.  That would erase their dna from the record.  Anyway, if they were angelic beings they would not be able to procreate.

Chuck Missler suggests for God to have destroyed the entire planet with a flood, more was going on than just wickedness as it appears on the surface. That Noah was pure in his generations meant he was free of DNA corruption.

And I say again, we have no indication angels cannot procreate only that they do not procreate (in heaven).

Matthew 22:30 (AV)

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

[JTC]

Hey SINNERSAVED,

First I want to say don't obsess over this until you go crazy. Stop, back off it, and come back to it at a later date. I didn't know to do that when I heard what you did. Also be aware that Satan loves to try and make us doubt God even exists with topics like this. That's why it's important not to obsess over it.

I don't believe anyone knows for a fact what the answer is. Nevertheless, I finally boiled it down to 1 of these. First I concluded the Sons of God were the fallen angels. Next, how did they get human women pregnant?

1. Perhaps when the fallen angels fell they were changed, by God, so that they are no longer pure spirit beings. As part of their punishment they can take physical form, and with it came the lust of the flesh that we have to fight against and overcome. If this happened then they had intercourse.

2. The angels have knowledge of all kinds of things. They know things we have yet to discover. If they couldn't have physical intercourse maybe they used an artificial insemination method.

I think the first one is most probable but 2 is also reasonable. The disturbing thing here is there are many things God didn't tell us about. I believe He did that to spare us the agony of it as long as possible. I also believe a man in the days of Gn 6 couldn't have understood the secrets God kept from Him. Even today many people can't or won't consider we don't have perfect knowledge. IMO these people are afraid the knowledge will either destroy their faith, or worse yet prove God does not exist. And our world is full of people who already think this and most want us to agree. So the fears are warranted. But I am convinced that a true believer will come back to his/her belief in God even if it takes years. Being a person of God is a lifetime job. What I have seen is that intellectual doubts are not the believer's greatest danger. The bigger danger is if a believer goes back to living in whatever sins he was in before he was saved. Notice I said living in the sin, not just slipping up and committing it. We all have done that.

So I hope I helped and didn't cause more confusion.

 

[Pamelasv]

They were just 'men of renown.'  There were giants when Isreal invaded canaan. 

[other one]

13 minutes ago, Pamelasv said:

They were just 'men of renown.'  There were giants when Isreal invaded canaan. 

what does that mean?

 

[Pamelasv]

44 minutes ago, other one said:

what does that mean?

 

Known as being mighty warriors I thought.  Doesn't the Bible say that?  The sons of God is just a choice of wording used, and freaks everybody out.  

[Pamelasv]

Genesis 6:4.  

It says MEN of renown. 

[Ezra]

51 minutes ago, Pamelasv said:

Genesis 6:4.  

It says MEN of renown. 

The men of renown were the offspring of the "sons of God". They may also have been giants, or gigantically proportioned as well as outstanding in what they accomplished.

[MorningGlory]

18 hours ago, JohnD said:

Chuck Missler suggests for God to have destroyed the entire planet with a flood, more was going on than just wickedness as it appears on the surface. That Noah was pure in his generations meant he was free of DNA corruption.

And I say again, we have no indication angels cannot procreate only that they do not procreate (in heaven).

Matthew 22:30 (AV)

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

 

Well, you may have a point but, to me, Matthew 22:30 points to the angelic beings not procreating. I guess it really doesn't say they CAN'T do so.  But, yes, if they did interbreed with humans, God HAD to erase their dna or it would still be there.