Looking forward to a DNA Hard Drive

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Omegaman.......

     Sure thing Brother!!!!!! Honestly,great stuff,,,,but then again you area wealth of information & have Blessed me personally time & time again ,,,,,,,I'm sure I speak for many,"Thank You",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      And the really cool thing is that this type of discussion(& a very nice discussion,I may add)inspires a lot of folks to "THINK" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Look at this fabulous comment...

Quote

My point is, that knowledge doesn't translate into faith. Knowledge doesn't care whether you trust in it or not and knowledge certainly doesn't necessitate or cause faith. Faith is a separate act from the knowledge enterprise.                                                           posted by LuftWaffle

or this one...

Quote

. So there is certainly evidence for God and the sheer bulk of it, I think, makes it more plausible than not, that God exists. Now of course if you require a stronger standard than "more plausible than not", if you instead require certainty, then I can't help you                       posted by LuftWaffle

    It's AMAZING how "we" have "certainty",,,,,,without one shadow of doubt,under no uncertain terms,,,,,,,,,Waddya think Mega,is our Faith what it is because of the Holy Spirit? We are ,of course indewelled BECAUSE of our Faith,,,,hmmm?                     Love ya,Kwik

[LuftWaffle]

10 hours ago, siegi91 said:

Probably, the source of my confusion is that i consider the evaluation of evidence, in order to justify a certain belief, a sort of epistemology. I believe in X because I have objective evidence that X might be true, and my way of justifying the truth of X was based on method Y: evaluation of evidence, or logic, or repetetive results from experiments, or whatever else.

Therefore, I am not sure how faith can be detached from epistemology, if yourself claim that the ontology it is trying to justify, or defend, is based on some sort of way, or algorithm. Call it common sense, inductivity, experience, logic, etc. 

i am sure Thomas himself needed a basic epistemology to realize that Jesus had risen again. Namely: I assume I am not dreaming. This is the reality. I assume I am am not a brain in a vet and I am really touching the wounds of this man , whose image on my retinas is very close to the image of the master, and the fact that I saw him on the cross, is cumulative objective evidence for me that what he says is true. I might be wrong on my premises, but my way of assessing the truth of things makes me conclude that he is really the master risen.

How is that not an epistemology?

 sieglinde

 

 

Hi Siegie,

You are right, evaluation of evidence in order to justify a certain belief is indeed epistemology. Faith is an act of trusting in the belief that emerged from that prior epistemological work, it isn't itself a way of determining warrant for belief.

I'm not saying faith has no relationship with epistemology, all I'm saying is that faith is not part of the epistemic process, it follows it.

 

 

[post]

faith is part of every epistemology. 
even to say, "i think, therefore i am" -- you must by faith assume that 'you' are the one thinking. 
no complex logical system is without axiom - and axiom is based in assumption; axiom is unproven. 
all science is done under the premise (unverified & unverifiable assumption - taken by faith) that physical laws exist and are consistent everywhere in a relatively homogeneous universe. 
all philosophy is done under the premise (unverified and unverifiable axiomatic assumption - taken by faith) that human thought is coherent and human logic is externally justifiable. we, within our own minds, accept this, because the alternative is madness - but there is no guarantee that removed from our own anthrocentric thinking, that our thinking is sound. in fact, people who we accept as clinically insane by many measures do not consider themselves insane - their own minds convince themselves epistemologicaly that they are coherent. further - there is strong evolutionary pressure on brain development for the brain to accept it's own conclusions, right or wrong, because the alternative is a paralyzing madness. and more - as the Lord says - we have each gone our own way, doing what is right in our own eyes. 
true knowledge is not the prerogative of man to determine or discover. we all - believers or not - at some level work by faith, because 'proof' at some level must rely on information obtainable only from a dimension higher than the one in which we exist and operate.
the derogatory harping of atheists and other humanists about 'faith' is often blindness. 

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 1/14/2016 at 11:48 AM, kwikphilly said:

It's AMAZING how "we" have "certainty",,,,,,without one shadow of doubt,under no uncertain terms,,,,,,,,,Waddya think Mega,is our Faith what it is because of the Holy Spirit? We are ,of course indewelled BECAUSE of our Faith,,,,hmmm?                     Love ya,Kwik

Well kwik, in recent years I have come to embrace reformed theology - more or less what some people refer to as Calvinism. In that, I think yes, the Holy Spirit is why our faith is what it is. I like this passage in Ephesians:

1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and we were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Others of course, see it differently, but I think that when we were dead in our sin, we could not truly seek God, nor understand Him. Our eyes were blind, our ears were deaf, our hearts were hard, we were slaves to sin, and we were just plain dead. We were not gulping water at the surface, gasping for air, reaching up toward God for help.

We were already stuck in the mud at the bottom, unable to reach up or call out for help. it was God who took the initiative, and reached done to us, pulled us out of the muck, and breathed new life into us. It is all his doing, lest anyone should boast, taking credit for what God has done.

In verse 8 above, where it says "it is the gift of God", I take that very seriously, I think that the gift He gave, is that He gave us the very faith to believe, He made our blind eyes see, our deaf ears hear, gave us a heart of flesh where there was a heart of stone, gave us life, while we were dead, and freed us from slavery to sin.

I think what Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus, was that to see the Kingdom, we have to be born from above, the new birth is a work of God, through the Spirit, in us. The only thing I contributed to my salvation, was the sin that I was cleansed of. I believe we are given new life, and THEN we respond with a desire for God etc. Indeed, the Bible mentions that even repentance, is granted.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

I do not see how, I could have anything to do with it, if he chose me before I was even a twinkle in my human father's eye. That He predestined us, seems plane to me now, and it might seem odd, but I interpret that to mean, that he predestined us, LOL. I think that the choice of words there, the reference to our being adopted, even hints at all of this. In adoption, it is the parent, who does the choosing and makes the arrangements, the baby has nothing to say about it. The baby gets to grow, and learn to love and obey it's parents, and is thankful, to have parents.

So yeah, indeed Kwik, I think our Faith what it is because of the Holy Spirit.  However, I do not think we are indewelled BECAUSE of our Faith, I think it is more likely, that we have faith, because we are indwelled. 

That does not sit right with a lot of people, I think because we are not comfortable with the idea that God blessed us without out permission, and in our pride, we want to have had some role in our own salvation. That is just my opinion, since you asked.

However, I hope that this thread does not take a turn in the direction of all the issues related to reformed theology, there are other threads for that topic already. Never-the-less, I appreciate the opportunity you presented to share my thoughts on this. I know I was blessed with a even deeper appreciation for what God has done in me, than I had before I had my current understanding. That God loved me, while I was His enemy, saved me while I was rejecting Him, is awesome to comprehend, and though I would not have thought it possible, it has made my worship, that much deeper and more meaningful.

 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Amazing grace! No wonder even the angels desire to look into it.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Mega,,,,,

    Awesome,thank you so very much for sharing your thoughts with me(with all of us),,,,,,,I took the opportunity to ask even though it is "off topic"because I really do value your opinion and I would love to talk more about this with you in an appropriate thread pertaining to the subject,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,After reading your reply I guess I would be considered  on a "Calvinist" too-lol      Humility is what lead me to a better understanding in recent years myself,I've had my head bitten off for saying "I'm not too sure about how big a part "free will" has to do with my Salvation",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

   Back on Topic,,,,,,,,,In your OP I think you posed a question,,,,,,,,

Quote

In other words, nothing, with enough time, became life, with the ability to make copies of itself and to survive  in it's enviroment. All of this happened uncaused without any intelligent designer, and yet, at the same time, this simple life form, with nothing to assist it, became more and more complex, until one day, more sophisticated lifeforms would exist, who can read this page.

Yet, for all of the intellence that these later life forms posess, they cannot yet, explain nor understand how all of this really worked, they just know, that somehow, it did.

Personally, I think there are two perfectly good explanations how this might have all, come to pass.

The first explanation, we can call "magic without a magician", or the "big bang / evolution model".

The second explanation, we just call God.

  I would be interested to hear anyones theory supporting "Magic without The Magician",,,,,,,,,especially considering all we know today about DNA............how something can come from nothing?  BLUEPRINTS without an architect or engineer?

                                                                           To God be the Glory in ALL          With Love-in Christ,Kwik

[angels4u]

15 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Well kwik, in recent years I have come to embrace reformed theology - more or less what some people refer to as Calvinism. In that, I think yes, the Holy Spirit is why our faith is what it is. I like this passage in Ephesians:

1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and we were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Others of course, see it differently, but I think that when we were dead in our sin, we could not truly seek God, nor understand Him. Our eyes were blind, our ears were deaf, our hearts were hard, we were slaves to sin, and we were just plain dead. We were not gulping water at the surface, gasping for air, reaching up toward God for help.

We were already stuck in the mud at the bottom, unable to reach up or call out for help. it was God who took the initiative, and reached done to us, pulled us out of the muck, and breathed new life into us. It is all his doing, lest anyone should boast, taking credit for what God has done.

In verse 8 above, where it says "it is the gift of God", I take that very seriously, I think that the gift He gave, is that He gave us the very faith to believe, He made our blind eyes see, our deaf ears hear, gave us a heart of flesh where there was a heart of stone, gave us life, while we were dead, and freed us from slavery to sin.

I think what Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus, was that to see the Kingdom, we have to be born from above, the new birth is a work of God, through the Spirit, in us. The only thing I contributed to my salvation, was the sin that I was cleansed of. I believe we are given new life, and THEN we respond with a desire for God etc. Indeed, the Bible mentions that even repentance, is granted.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

I do not see how, I could have anything to do with it, if he chose me before I was even a twinkle in my human father's eye. That He predestined us, seems plane to me now, and it might seem odd, but I interpret that to mean, that he predestined us, LOL. I think that the choice of words there, the reference to our being adopted, even hints at all of this. In adoption, it is the parent, who does the choosing and makes the arrangements, the baby has nothing to say about it. The baby gets to grow, and learn to love and obey it's parents, and is thankful, to have parents.

So yeah, indeed Kwik, I think our Faith what it is because of the Holy Spirit.  However, I do not think we are indewelled BECAUSE of our Faith, I think it is more likely, that we have faith, because we are indwelled. 

That does not sit right with a lot of people, I think because we are not comfortable with the idea that God blessed us without out permission, and in our pride, we want to have had some role in our own salvation. That is just my opinion, since you asked.

However, I hope that this thread does not take a turn in the direction of all the issues related to reformed theology, there are other threads for that topic already. Never-the-less, I appreciate the opportunity you presented to share my thoughts on this. I know I was blessed with a even deeper appreciation for what God has done in me, than I had before I had my current understanding. That God loved me, while I was His enemy, saved me while I was rejecting Him, is awesome to comprehend, and though I would not have thought it possible, it has made my worship, that much deeper and more meaningful.

 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Amazing grace! No wonder even the angels desire to look into it.

Amen ! Praise the Lord  

[Pamelasv]

Would somebody please bring up the topic of evolution within what has already been created? 

[siegi91]

On 25 December 2015 at 3:23 AM, post said:

(physics degree here, with minor in astronomy) -- this isn't even consistent with modern cosmology. 
accepted 'big bang' models certainly don't begin with hydrogen. that's waaay down the line in the first nanoseconds.

first, something not even properly called plasma -- nanoseconds after 'whatever' it was that originated from some cosmic point source ((you might say it's God's mouth, as He spoke the universe into existence)), the whole universe was much too hot and much too energetic to be something as stable and complex as hydrogen. first, cooling into baryonic & non-baryonic "stuff" - then, as space expands and everything cools, interestingly, the science points to a definable moment when the universe is cool enough and sparse enough for a photon to travel a whole planck length. i.e. God says, "let there be light" and for the first time, "light" exists. all this happens long before neutrons and protons and electrons form, and so long before any hydrogen atom. in the beginning, "waters" - assuming Aramaic doesn't have a better term for "quark soup" haha - and what could be "earth" - matter, as opposed to forms of radiative energy - was void. 

so later, hot, energetic hydrogen. and gravity pulls hydrogen atoms together into hot, dense clouds. and these become stars. and every element other than hydrogen is thought to have been formed by fusion reactions in stars - beginning with hydrogen fusing to become helium, going all the way down the fusion chain to lead - and then as these stars nova, these elements are spread out, even while space itself still expands. 

this kind of action needn't be mindless or Godless. in fact, a host of fundamental constants and balances of energy and substance had to be just so or hydrogen could never form, or stars could not form, or fusion couldn't occur that changed these elements into others - and on and on and on - and there is no physical reason that everything in the universe should be balanced just so. many see this fantastic organization and structure and unimaginably improbable sets of circumstances and measures as evidence of a divine Creator -- and those who reject Him, turn to things like multiverse theories, saying we only experience this one "perfect" universe, because, but the zillions of other possible sets of measures that by random choice are so much more probable, but leave us with a universe incapable of even forming the basic building blocks of matter itself, that all these also exist, but we can't perceive them, because obviously we could not exist in them. 

you also mentioned the idea that "nothing" became hydrogen. "poof" and there was hydrogen. this is completely inconsistent with any established or theorized cosmological theory. what's more correct to say is that no one except the theist has any idea about where the thing that went "bang" in the big bang came from. the atheist answer is "it has always existed" - and that's weak, and inexplicable - and the honest answer of any scientist, godless or God-fearing, is "we have no idea" - though we that believe, believe that God spoke, and it was - whether we know "how" or not, yet we believe. 

I don't think the Universe began. i don't even think it is expanding. I think it is not moving nor changing at all. Can you imagine  spacetime changing in .... time?

By the way, my avatar says the same thing in quantum gravitational form.

 

 siegi

 

 

 

[Guest]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2015 at 2:12 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

"Looking forward to a DNA Hard Drive"

I'll comment on the title of the thread.

Every one of us needs to meditate on this a bit.

DNA is the Word of God.

Are you folks aware of this?

In fact, it's a book, like the Bible...

Psalm 139:16
"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them"

God is describing DNA thousands of years before Man knew about it. Amazing!

Here's the problem...

God said not to add anything to the Book...

Revelation 22:18
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book"

He also said not to take away from it...

Revelation 22:19
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"

Those punishments are very severe obviously.

Therefore...

Anyone tinkering with Genetic Modification (e.g. making a DNA Hard Drive), will face stiff penalties.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Guest
.

[other one]

combining scripture like that is very dangerous....  you can come up with all kinds of stuff.