Where is the 3rd Heaven?

[Retrobyter]

"Heaven." We sing songs about it; we quote Scripture about it, but I don't think we know the first thing about it in reality.

WHERE is "Heaven?" It IS knowable, according to the Scriptures!

WHAT is "Heaven?" Perhaps, that is the question that should be addressed first. I've bought several books about "Heaven," and they all basically come to the same conclusions. HOWEVER, if they really knew what "Heaven" is, I think they would change their minds!

Okay, let's start with the common rhetoric. Tell me what you currently believe about it. Then, let's explore some definitions and Scripture passages about it.

[coheir]

27 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

"Heaven." We sing songs about it; we quote Scripture about it, but I don't think we know the first thing about it in reality.

WHERE is "Heaven?" It IS knowable, according to the Scriptures!

WHAT is "Heaven?" Perhaps, that is the question that should be addressed first. I've bought several books about "Heaven," and they all basically come to the same conclusions. HOWEVER, if they really knew what "Heaven" is, I think they would change their minds!

Okay, let's start with the common rhetoric. Tell me what you currently believe about it. Then, let's explore some definitions and Scripture passages about it.

I know very little so hope to learn from the others.

My thoughts; we know in heaven many things that happened on earth will be wiped from our minds. we know it is most beautiful, peaceful no sorrow, we will all have something to do.

where; far enough away than man will never find it with his flying video cameras.

what; a spiritual plain not like a planet.

[Retrobyter]

9 minutes ago, coheir said:

I know very little so hope to learn from the others.

My thoughts; we know in heaven many things that happened on earth will be wiped from our minds. we know it is most beautiful, peaceful no sorrow, we will all have something to do.

where; far enough away than man will never find it with his flying video cameras.

what; a spiritual plain not like a planet.

 

Thank you, coheir, for being the first.

[FresnoJoe]

Look

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows. 2 Corinthians 12:2 (New International Version)

Up

Yes, only God knows whether I was in my body or outside my body. But I do know that I was caught up to paradise and heard things so astounding that they cannot be expressed in words, things no human is allowed to tell. 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 (New Living Translation)

And Be Blessed

In the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the exiles by the Chebar canal, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. Ezekiel 1:1 (English Standard Version)

Beloved Of The KING

And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance. and upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him. Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around.

Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking. Ezekiel 1:26-28 (English Standard Version)

Glory~!

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. Luke 2:13 (King James Version)

Amen~!

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:12-18 (King James Version)

[JohnD]

2 Corinthians 12:2–5 (NASB95)

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—

4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

5 On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses.

Revelation 2:7 (NASB95)

7 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’

The term "third heaven" follows the ancient understanding that there is heaven the sky, heaven outer space beyond the sky, and heaven beyond space where God's throne is.

Jesus seems to have thrown this teaching a curve:

Luke 17:21 (NASB95)

21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Some translations say the Kingdom of God is within you... (KJV / NKJV)...

In your midst would also seem to point to Jesus himself... one greater than Moses, Solomon, the temple etc. is here...

And at the time he spoke the words only he was in the kingdom of God which was not possible for us to enter into until his death on the cross (Hebrews 9:16-17).

In one sense, we are all vessels of the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 3:16 (NASB95)

16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Romans 8:9 (NASB95)

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Galatians 4:21–31 (NASB95)

21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.

23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.

24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.

25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.

26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

27 For it is written, “Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear; Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more numerous are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband.”

28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

2 Peter 3:3–8 (NASB95)

3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,

6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Isaiah 34:4 (NASB95)

4 And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:12–17 (NASB95)

12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;

13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.

14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains;

16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Isaiah 65:17–19 (NASB95)

17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

18 “But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness.

19 “I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying.

2 Peter 3:13–14 (NASB95)

13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

Revelation 21:1–7 (NASB95)

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.

7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 (NASB95)

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Hope this explains what you are asking about.

God bless.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Retrobyter

Great Topic,,,,one in which I find the more I researched & studied,the less I know-lol    Honestly,I have concluded that I am not quite sure that we would ever reside in the 3rd Heaven but possibly will have access to it in our Glorified new bodies,,,,,,from the Scriptures I see that the 3rd Heaven is where Gods Almighty Throne is,Jesus & many many angels,,,,,,,,,possibly the 24 elders,apostles???????

 I think we will wind up in someplace called Paradise,I don't really see Paradise & Heaven being the same place,,,,,,,,,I think our eternal "Heaven" will be in Paradise with our Lord Jesus,,,,,,I've even considered that Paradise will be the Holy City on the "new earth",,,,,,,,,,

 I'll tell you the truth(my truth),,,,,it all sounds like "heaven" to me,,,,,,,anyplace   in the Presence of our Lord will be my Heaven,my eternal Home & thats great in my book,,,,,,,wherever that may be!!!!!!

 Interested to hear what others have to say,,,,,sometimes I feel like the wind on this subject,,,,,I go from here to there in my thoughts,,,,no convictions as of yet,no revelations as of yet                     Praise the Lord!!!                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

BTW,,,,,If read & heard so many stories about people who claim they have "seen Heaven",not really sure how I feel about that either(sounds wonderful),,,,,,I have not one single doubt that there is a HEAVEN,not one     just not sure if what the folks saw is what is our eternal home will be or if what they saw is Heaven,Paradise or what? I can only Trust what the Word of God says & I already said I have not come to a final verdict,,,,,,,

 

    

   

[other one]

When I look at the scripture that John posted and a couple of other books and the "M" string theoretical physics book I delved into about 5 years ago, it all seems to me that the Third Heaven is actually a higher dimension....    it is actually around and among us at a higher level of existence.   It would make sense that a few people and a donkey would be able to see a higher dimension on occasion in which a lot of angels were around.

I don't think we actually have enough knowledge of it all to understand how it all could possibly work, at least I don't but little glimpses of possibilities are just mind boggling.   I don't think it's possible for us in our human bodies to transfer into the upper dimensions (second or third heaven).

[Ezra]

The "third heaven" is God's Heaven. It is above and beyond outer space, but it is not ephemeral. This is what is commonly called "Heaven", and what we are told by God Himself is that it contains:

1. God the Father on His throne

2. The Lord Jesus Christ on His throne

3. The Holy Spirit appearing as the seven spirits of God

4. The 24 elders around the throne

5. The Cherubim and Seraphim around the throne

6. The heavenly city, the New Jerusalem (the eternal home of the saints)

7. The souls and spirits of all the saints (both OT and NT)

8. An innumerable company of holy angels.

9. Paradise with the tree of life.

10. The Ark of the Covenant within the Temple in Heaven.

The question each one must ask themselves is "Do I know that if I died tonight, I would be in Heaven with Christ?"  One can know this with certainty by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings,,,,,,,

     Whenever this discussion comes up I always am reminded of what Jesus says,,,,,,

Quote

King James Bible
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.                                 John 3:12-13

We cannot even understand half of what we see & hear,things of this earth,,,,,,,,,,,how could Jesus ever explain to Nicodemus what is spirit as he was looking through carnal eyes,,,,,,,,,,even though the context of the conversation is about faith I can also see in it that the Heavenly things(& Heaven) cannot be comprehended by us while in these tents,,,,,,,just my thoughts,,,,,,,,

I read what Ezra posted,I believe I pretty much said the same thing so it leaves me right back to where I was -lol

Quote

The question each one must ask themselves is "Do I know that if I died tonight, I would be in Heaven with Christ?"            posted by Ezra

This really is what is important,,,,not what we cannot possibly understand ,although it is enjoyable to talk about,,,,,,what's not to be joyful about when thinking of being with God?                                                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

[JohnD]

5 hours ago, other one said:

When I look at the scripture that John posted and a couple of other books and the "M" string theoretical physics book I delved into about 5 years ago, it all seems to me that the Third Heaven is actually a higher dimension....    it is actually around and among us at a higher level of existence.   It would make sense that a few people and a donkey would be able to see a higher dimension on occasion in which a lot of angels were around.

I don't think we actually have enough knowledge of it all to understand how it all could possibly work, at least I don't but little glimpses of possibilities are just mind boggling.   I don't think it's possible for us in our human bodies to transfer into the upper dimensions (second or third heaven).

Without a doubt the spirit realm (dimension) coexists with the physical dimension(s) our spirits living in our bodies for example. And IMHO the "missing mass" scientists cannot account for isn't missing and it isn't mass (as far as the physical is concerned, anyway) but is in fact the dimension of the spirit(s). And so called dark matter is about as ridiculous as it comes "we never saw it, felt it, heard it, smelled it, tasted it nor could we produce it in experimentation of any kind... yet we "know' there is dark matter in the universe...

What a magnificent scientific deduction!

wonk wonk wonk