Salvation Before Christ?

[Stratton]

When I go to heaven I expect to see people like Moses and others from the Old Testament up there with me. How did these sinners make it into heaven before the time of Christs sacrifice?

[angels4u]

Welcome Strat

Hebrews 11New International Version (NIV)

Faith in Action

11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. ² This is what the ancients were commended for.

³ By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

⁴ By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

⁵ By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”^[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. ⁶ And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

⁷ By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

⁸ By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. ⁹ By faith he made his home in the promised landlike a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. ¹⁰ For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. ¹¹ And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she^[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. ¹² And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

¹³ All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. ¹⁴ People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. ¹⁵ If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. ¹⁶ Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

¹⁷ By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice.He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, ¹⁸ even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”^[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

²⁰ By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.

²¹ By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.

²² By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.

²³ By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born,because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

²⁴ By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. ²⁵ He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. ²⁶ He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. ²⁷ By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. ²⁸ By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

²⁹ By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.

³⁰ By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.

³¹ By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.^[d]

³² And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon,Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, ³³ who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,³⁴ quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword;whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. ³⁵ Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. ³⁶ Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. ³⁷ They were put to death by stoning;^[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins,destitute, persecuted and mistreated— ³⁸ the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

³⁹ These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, ⁴⁰ since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Stratton said:

When I go to heaven I expect to see people like Moses and others from the Old Testament up there with me. How did these sinners make it into heaven before the time of Christs sacrifice?

All the saints (not "sinners") from Abel onwards were justified by grace through faith, but did not enter Heaven until the resurrection of Christ. They remained confined in "Abraham's Bosom" (within Sheol/Hades, which is "in the heart of the earth" or in the "lower parts of the earth"). But at the time of Christ's resurrection, they were all taken up to Heaven, and are referred to as "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12:23).

[Guest]

Long story short, the OT Saints had to believe in the coming Redeemer.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Noah,,,,

     I just read your intro on the Welcome Forum,I thought you are a Christian? This is the "Seeker Forum",,,,it is really for "Seekers" & unbelievers": because they do not have access to all the Forums,perhaps you are posting here because you could not post anywhere else?    That's because you need a minimum requirement of posts 1st,you can go back to the welcome forum & reply to your welcomes & acquire posts that way if you like,,,,,,,

    They had the same Faith as we have in the Knowledge of WHO Jesus is & we are then reconciled(Saved by Grace)    ,,,,,,,the only difference is that they had Faith in the Promise of the SEED to come    The Blood of the Perfect Lamb of God covers the sins of the world,,,,,,past,present & future believers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,     With Love-in Christ,Kwik

[Stratton]

Oh my bad didn't know I didnt mean to post as a seeker but still I thank all of you for the answers, I understand now. 

[RustyAngeL]

4 hours ago, angels4u said:

Welcome Strat

Hebrews 11New International Version (NIV)

Faith in Action

11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. ² This is what the ancients were commended for.

³ By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

⁴ By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

⁵ By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”^[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. ⁶ And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

⁷ By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

⁸ By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. ⁹ By faith he made his home in the promised landlike a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. ¹⁰ For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. ¹¹ And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she^[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. ¹² And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

¹³ All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. ¹⁴ People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. ¹⁵ If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. ¹⁶ Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

¹⁷ By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice.He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, ¹⁸ even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”^[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

²⁰ By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.

²¹ By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.

²² By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.

²³ By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born,because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

²⁴ By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. ²⁵ He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. ²⁶ He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. ²⁷ By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. ²⁸ By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

²⁹ By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.

³⁰ By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.

³¹ By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.^[d]

³² And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon,Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, ³³ who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,³⁴ quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword;whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. ³⁵ Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. ³⁶ Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. ³⁷ They were put to death by stoning;^[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins,destitute, persecuted and mistreated— ³⁸ the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

³⁹ These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, ⁴⁰ since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

 

Right.  They were honored for their faith.

[Dallan Smith]

If you read the Book of Mormon you'll see that God has always commanded his children to have faith in Christ, repent, be baptized, receive the holy ghost and endure to the end no matter what the time period. The Jews when translating the old testament removed any notion of Christ and changed the name Jehovah simply to God to destroy any notion of Jesus Christ so in our current bible's It appears that not much is spoken using Christ's name or salvation in the Old Testament. This is one of the reasons why the Book of Mormon is so important. Christ could have come at any time period while the earth is around but he chose 2000 years ago in a very specific place because that was the only place he could fulfill his purposes, and the only time the people would be wicked enough to kill their own God. So if you were born before or after Christ died for us doesn't make much of a difference. Does that answer your concerns?

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Dallan Smith said:

If you read the Book of Mormon you'll see that God has always commanded his children to have faith in Christ, repent, be baptized, receive the holy ghost and endure to the end no matter what the time period. The Jews when translating the old testament removed any notion of Christ and changed the name Jehovah simply to God to destroy any notion of Jesus Christ so in our current bible's It appears that not much is spoken using Christ's name or salvation in the Old Testament. This is one of the reasons why the Book of Mormon is so important. Christ could have come at any time period while the earth is around but he chose 2000 years ago in a very specific place because that was the only place he could fulfill his purposes, and the only time the people would be wicked enough to kill their own God. So if you were born before or after Christ died for us doesn't make much of a difference. Does that answer your concerns?

1 hour ago, Dallan Smith said:

If you read the Book of Mormon , , ,

Does that answer your concerns?

First off, I have read the BOM. I have also read much of Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price, and have them on my bookshelf for reference purposes.

Actually, other then the America's aspect of the BOM, and the lack of any support from archaeology about those civilizations, and the lack of a DNA connection between native Americans and Israelites, I can set aside those fanciful speculations and just judge it on it's spiritual content. Some of that is quite good, although it does not always agree with Mormon theology, oddly. 

It is also, quite peculiar, that a man who claimed to be translating plates (that no one has seen) from reformed hieroglyphics (which no one has head of), would translate them into Elizabethan English, instead of the language of his own culture, 19th America. I smell a con. When you take a con man, and have him found a religion based on fiction, you  are inviting trouble and deception.

However, when getting into D&C and PoGP, one of which claim to be written (largely) by Joseph Smith, one would expect to see more harmony, and less contradiction, if a true prophet was actually involved.

So in short, no, that does not answer my concerns, which largely is, that a lot of well intentioned people, are being lead astray by the a non-Christian pseudo-church, presenting itself often, as not only being Christian (which is not true) but also as the only faithful representation of Christianity, also not true.

Dallan, read through some of the forum posts here, and get a taste of the true gospel, not one invented and filtered by Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Also, know that if you continue to promote the Book of Mormon and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, you may well find your activities limited here.

[Ezra]

On 26/03/2016 at 3:23 PM, Stratton said:

When I go to heaven I expect to see people like Moses and others from the Old Testament up there with me. How did these sinners make it into heaven before the time of Christs sacrifice?

All sinners since Abel were justified by God's grace through faith. Please study Hebrews 11.  When a sinner is justified, the perfect righteousness of Christ is imputed to him.  Please study the epistle to the Romans.