Who is not welcome in your church?

[Churchmouse]

18 hours ago, bryan said:

Does your church have open or 'soft' rules stating certain types of people may not attend your church?  I've encountered some of this recently and would like to hear your thoughts.

Here are a few specific examples I've experienced in the past year.  Please note I'm not judging these practices, simply describing them to see what you think.

In a small, home-based fellowship consisting of six families, some friends asked if they could attend as well.  Some of the elders (aka fathers of the families) said one woman could not attend since she had remarried.  It didn't matter that her previous husband was abusive and in jail for violent crimes.  Remarrying was judged as wrong and thus she could not be with us.

In that same home-based fellowship, another family was considered and it was rejected because their political views were judged to be too progressive.  The existing members stated they could not tolerate such views in their fellowship.

I'll note that fellowship dissolved earlier this year when some views on marriage, women, and homosexuality divided the group and several families decided to leave instead if using biblical discussion to reach a rational consensus.

In exploring some local churches, I've attended a couple bible studies to get to know some of the members in a smaller group setting.  The first one was from a large church and looked promising as they were using a Gruden apologetics book and just starting.  In the first meeting, they reviewed the chapter topics, restated the key concepts, and asked for questions.  One person asked for some detail about a concept and was rebuked with the group leader saying "We believe this concept in our church" and made it clear no discussion was welcome.  Further questions were treated similarly, so after a few meetings I stopped attending since they apparently only wanted people who repeated the phrases from the book.

Another local church had a board meeting to deal with a current member.  This member had been there for several years and ran all the audio for their services.  Last year, he had been convicted of viewing child pornography online, spent some time in jail, lost is job,  and was now applying to be a night janitor at the church to clean things when nobody else was there.  While he had not committed any crimes other than online viewing, they banned him and his family from the church.

In the past few months, I've seen several churches make it clear people aren't welcome if they ask the wrong questions, are from the wrong social class, have remarried, and more.  It is all frankly quite disturbing.  Biblical examples constantly show we should help people in need, yet what I'm seeing lately is rejection of people searching for help. 

 

I remember a joke about a pastor stopping a man dressed in jeans and a Harley Davidson tee shirt at the front door of the church, telling him that they don't allow people dressed as he was to attend their services. The preacher also told him to go and pray to God  for him to get guidance on what to wear the next time he came.

 The next week the pastor again stopped the young man at the door, wearing the same tee shirt. The preacher asked him," didn't I tell you to go pray to God about what is appropriate to wear to this church and the guy responded. "I did pray to God, but he told me he didn't know what your dress code was, because he's never been inside your church.

These people who reject others do so out of their vision of their appearance. God has no hand it this. 

Jesus ate with sinners and Publicans.  He saved the life of and adulterous and sent her on her way without accusation. His only demand is that sh no sin against.  He let a harlot wash his feet and said these very words. "whatever you do to the least of these you do to me"

 

Where in the actions of these people do you see anything even remote reflecting that mindset?

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Churchmouse

[hmbld]

53 minutes ago, Churchmouse said:

Jesus ate with sinners and Publicans.  He saved the life of and adulterous and sent her on her way without accusation. His only demand is that sh no sin against.  He let a harlot wash his feet and said these very words. "whatever you do to the least of these you do to me"

 

Where in the actions of these people do you see anything even remote reflecting that mindset?

 

Either these people have never read their bible, or it just plain didn't sink in?

[Neighbor]

On 4/9/2017 at 6:47 AM, Churchmouse said:

I remember a joke about a pastor stopping a man dressed in jeans and a Harley Davidson tee shirt at the front door of the church, telling him that they don't allow people dressed as he was to attend their services. The preacher also told him to go and pray to God  for him to get guidance on what to wear the next time he came.

 The next week the pastor again stopped the young man at the door, wearing the same tee shirt. The preacher asked him," didn't I tell you to go pray to God about what is appropriate to wear to this church and the guy responded. "I did pray to God, but he told me he didn't know what your dress code was, because he's never been inside your church.

These people who reject others do so out of their vision of their appearance. God has no hand it this. 

Jesus ate with sinners and Publicans.  He saved the life of and adulterous and sent her on her way without accusation. His only demand is that sh no sin against.  He let a harlot wash his feet and said these very words. "whatever you do to the least of these you do to me"

 

Where in the actions of these people do you see anything even remote reflecting that mindset?

 

Good joke!

In practice though there comes a time and a place where decisions need be made. Even regarding dress, or lack thereof.

There's many a joke using the same theme, the raggedly attired farmer  that smelled of the farm work, with cash in his pocket, trying to buy a new Buick and the  car salesman rejecting his inquiry, etc etc. It is a good themed joke, reminding  that we should give respect to individuals, but not be a respecter of persons.

On a personal level  church attendance level, I have endured many a smell that has been an offense to my nostrils and my allergies.  Mostly from old ladies whose noses no longer sense their own aroma when they apply  perfumes and powders. Plus on occasion, from a street person that has no place  to clean  except when they actually are in church, and then they use the spacious disability restroom to shave a bit, trim, whatever, leaving a bit of a mess behind. Which was often my "pleasure" to have to clean up later. And I said to my mind, it is the price of my admission, not theirs. I can live through this  and give thanks for their being interested enough to also attend and read and pray despite their plight. Don't know if I would  if in the same plight.

BUT when the plight turned into  preying instead of prayer then  something had to be done. One person grew familiar with  events where our women folk were in attendance and would then prey upon them in the parking lot, panhandling and intimidating them.

That had to be dealt with. And it was, haven't seen that person in some time now, even though their plight was dealt with and their offense made known.

Today  in the city we have security  all week long, electronic door locks and timers and cameras, all because, it works out to be necessary for safety  and for ability to retain what is church property.  It just isn't  working out well to allow everyone access to all things without having controls over more and more things. Kinda sad, but it is the battle of discernment, what level of risk  is prudent and what  is, well  a bit foolish disregard of stewardship.

 

I wonder if these home fellowship small groups really allow the street person with their bags of stuff packed on a biccycle to come into their home for worship, and then are not  concerned for their family's security all week long afterward. - as I stated elsewhere, I knew a woman who did  welcome the street people all day every day into her home patio for food  for belly and food for the soul. It was an amazing ministry. She actually  bought the home for that  purpose right where the vagrants traveled. She seemed especially blessed for courage of her calling.

 I have done a small short term missions thing of similar approach, but can't say that I will feel the call to buy a home amongst the very disturbed so that  I might feed them.- just can't say that, least not yet  in my own walk. May God continue to especially protect and bless those that He does call  to such a high degree and do heed that calling.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Neighbor

[JohnD]

Cultists / false religionists who disrupt with the intent to steal sheep...

2 John 10

[JohnD]

Although the late great Dr. Walter Martin used to invite them specifically to come to their meetings (because he was in counter-cult ministry). 

 

[Churchmouse]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Good joke!

In practice though there comes a time and a place where decisions need be made. Even regarding dress, or lack thereof.

There's many a joke using the same theme, the raggedly attired farmer  that smelled of the farm work, with cash in his pocket, trying to buy a new Buick and the  car salesman rejecting his inquiry, etc etc. It is a good themed joke, reminding  that we should give respect to individuals, but not be a respecter of persons.

On a personal level  church attendance level i have endured many a smell that has been an offense to my nostrils and my allergies.  Mostly from old ladies whose noses no longer sense their own aroma when they apply  perfumes and powders, but on occasion from a street person that has no place  to clean  except when they actually are in church and then they use the spacious disability restroom to shave a bit trim, whatever, leaving a bit of a mess behind. Which wa soften my "pleasure" to have to clean up later. And I said to my mind, it is the price of my admission not theirs. I can live through this  and give thanks fo rtheir being interested enough to also attend and read and pray despite their plight. Don't know if I would  if in th esame plight. BUT when th eplight turned into  preying instead of prayer then  something had to be done. This person grew familiar with  events where our women folk were in attendance and would then pray upon them in the parking lot, panhandling and intimidating them.

That had to be dealt with. And it was, haven't seen that person in some time now, even though their plight was dealt with and their offense made known. Today  in the city we have security  all week long electronic door locks and timers and cameras, all because, it works out to be necessary fo rsafety  and for ability to retain what is church property.  It just isn't  working out well to allow everyone access to all things without having controls over more and more things. Kinda sad, but it is the battle of discernment, what level of risk  is prudent and what  is, well  a bit foolish disregard of stewardship.

 

I wonde rif these home fellowship small groups really allow th estreet person with their bags of stuff packed on a biccycle to com einto their home for worship, and then not e concerned for their family's security all week long afterward. - as I stated elsewhere, I knew a woman who did  welcome the street people all day every day into her home patio for food  for belly and food for the soul. It was an amazing ministry. she actually  bought the home for that  purpose right where the vagrants traveled. She seemed especially blessed for courage of her calling.

 I have done a small short term missions thing of similar approach, but can't say that I will feel the call to buy a home amongst the very disturbed so that  I might feed them.- just can't say that, least not yet  in my own walk. May God continue to especially protect and bless those that He does call  to such a high degree and do heed that calling.

there is a reason for people to go into small groups and it has nothing to do with God. It has to do with their own brand of political correct Christianity I found rather self serving.  a church is an open community not a social club for those who surround themselves with those of like mind and character.

[Churchmouse]

8 hours ago, hmbld said:

Either these people have never read their bible, or it just plain didn't sink in?

Like what the Bible says about hypocrites. They have received their reward..

[Jeff2]

Membership is limited to those that want to be members and will take the classes
to know  more of the church, give their testimony of faith and also have been
baptised in obedience by immersion in water. 

No wonder the church is full of unbiblical people! They are all in agreement with "requirements" the Bible never says!

[ravindran]

On 4/8/2017 at 0:45 PM, bryan said:

Does your church have open or 'soft' rules stating certain types of people may not attend your church?  I've encountered some of this recently and would like to hear your thoughts.

Here are a few specific examples I've experienced in the past year.  Please note I'm not judging these practices, simply describing them to see what you think.

In a small, home-based fellowship consisting of six families, some friends asked if they could attend as well.  Some of the elders (aka fathers of the families) said one woman could not attend since she had remarried.  It didn't matter that her previous husband was abusive and in jail for violent crimes.  Remarrying was judged as wrong and thus she could not be with us.

In that same home-based fellowship, another family was considered and it was rejected because their political views were judged to be too progressive.  The existing members stated they could not tolerate such views in their fellowship.

I'll note that fellowship dissolved earlier this year when some views on marriage, women, and homosexuality divided the group and several families decided to leave instead if using biblical discussion to reach a rational consensus.

In exploring some local churches, I've attended a couple bible studies to get to know some of the members in a smaller group setting.  The first one was from a large church and looked promising as they were using a Gruden apologetics book and just starting.  In the first meeting, they reviewed the chapter topics, restated the key concepts, and asked for questions.  One person asked for some detail about a concept and was rebuked with the group leader saying "We believe this concept in our church" and made it clear no discussion was welcome.  Further questions were treated similarly, so after a few meetings I stopped attending since they apparently only wanted people who repeated the phrases from the book.

Another local church had a board meeting to deal with a current member.  This member had been there for several years and ran all the audio for their services.  Last year, he had been convicted of viewing child pornography online, spent some time in jail, lost is job,  and was now applying to be a night janitor at the church to clean things when nobody else was there.  While he had not committed any crimes other than online viewing, they banned him and his family from the church.

In the past few months, I've seen several churches make it clear people aren't welcome if they ask the wrong questions, are from the wrong social class, have remarried, and more.  It is all frankly quite disturbing.  Biblical examples constantly show we should help people in need, yet what I'm seeing lately is rejection of people searching for help. 

 

Mine is a pretty small Church. Anyone who does not agree with me theologically is not welcome in the Church 

Just kidding.. everyone is always welcome. When it comes to leading some form of ministry or being an elder or something like that, then we think a lot before just confirming.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 1:45 PM, bryan said:

Does your church have open or 'soft' rules stating certain types of people may not attend your church?  I've encountered some of this recently and would like to hear your thoughts.

Here are a few specific examples I've experienced in the past year.  Please note I'm not judging these practices, simply describing them to see what you think.

In a small, home-based fellowship consisting of six families, some friends asked if they could attend as well.  Some of the elders (aka fathers of the families) said one woman could not attend since she had remarried.  It didn't matter that her previous husband was abusive and in jail for violent crimes.  Remarrying was judged as wrong and thus she could not be with us.

In that same home-based fellowship, another family was considered and it was rejected because their political views were judged to be too progressive.  The existing members stated they could not tolerate such views in their fellowship.

I'll note that fellowship dissolved earlier this year when some views on marriage, women, and homosexuality divided the group and several families decided to leave instead if using biblical discussion to reach a rational consensus.

In exploring some local churches, I've attended a couple bible studies to get to know some of the members in a smaller group setting.  The first one was from a large church and looked promising as they were using a Gruden apologetics book and just starting.  In the first meeting, they reviewed the chapter topics, restated the key concepts, and asked for questions.  One person asked for some detail about a concept and was rebuked with the group leader saying "We believe this concept in our church" and made it clear no discussion was welcome.  Further questions were treated similarly, so after a few meetings I stopped attending since they apparently only wanted people who repeated the phrases from the book.

Another local church had a board meeting to deal with a current member.  This member had been there for several years and ran all the audio for their services.  Last year, he had been convicted of viewing child pornography online, spent some time in jail, lost is job,  and was now applying to be a night janitor at the church to clean things when nobody else was there.  While he had not committed any crimes other than online viewing, they banned him and his family from the church.

In the past few months, I've seen several churches make it clear people aren't welcome if they ask the wrong questions, are from the wrong social class, have remarried, and more.  It is all frankly quite disturbing.  Biblical examples constantly show we should help people in need, yet what I'm seeing lately is rejection of people searching for help. 

 

The only people who are allowed in God's church are genuine believers or people who are seeking the truth and are willing to listen.

People who are unrepentant and don't even WANT to hear the truth must be kept out. Like unrepentant gays for example, or Muslims who don't want to listen to the truth but instead only preach their own brand.