Do you have to be pure in doctrine to be saved ?

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

Salvation is by the grace of God. We receive God's holy spirit the moment we believe.

"For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 3:5-16 (KJV

⁵ Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

Quote

 

⁶ That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

JESUS must have the children of God, in the pre- Christ period, in his mind, the Jews, when he said to Nicodemus "what is born of the flesh is flesh".

And Nicodemus who was born a Jew, and was within the requirements of the Law of Moses, was a child of God according to his genetic inheritance. 

Jesus is telling him that he is a child of God , because of his blood line,

(I don't ignore the fact that Nicodemus was also following the Law of Moses) (and he was also ritually clean with water, according to the Law)

And when Jesus began to indroduce to him the coming children of God, according to the Spirit, the born from above, Nicodemus according to his inquiries admit that he may be a Jew (a child of the flesh) but he is not a child of the Spirit of God, and he admits his ignorance about this matter. 

Nicodemus knows that no one is a child of the Spirit according to the Law, not even the High Priest who does the Service in the most Holy Place. 

Nicodemus knew there was a spiritual gap between them and God which the Law of Moses couldn't bridge. 

He knew that they can not fellowship together. 

Jesus was surprised (that's what I say) to hear that there is no teaching among the Jews about the spiritual hope the CHRIST will bring. 

Then JESUS who understood why the Jews can not see in that derection,

(because they could not understand that the CHRIST had to die)

Because they believed that the CHRIST will never die. 

They will die themselves, and their children will be born and die, and go to the Bossom of Abraham, which was not in Heaven and to go there they had to descend to be with Abraham. 

But the CHRIST will continue to rein as their King forever , and without having a Queen, or any Prince's. He had no need for a heir. 

So he will never go through the troubles of David. 

But Jesus Christ he must love what he saw in Nicodemus, and he let him know something Nicodemus was not taught from his teachers. 

That the Spiritual children of God will appear, and for that to happen the CHRIST must be lifted up the same way Moses lifted up the Serpent in the dessert. 

Jesus Christ told him that if he doesn't die on the Cross that (the children born of the Spirit of God), will never appeared, because  the children of the Spirit are the children of his sacrifice. 

And they are called the children of above, because they have an inheritance that is above. 

When they die they ascent. 

Everyone in his time. 

For the dead who were in Hades and believed in Jesus Christ when he was there for three days, is deferent, they had to be rapture to Heaven all at once. 

They were the first Harvest. 

It is amazing JESUS work and Harvest the fields in Hades, if we could use this illustration. 

My take on this one. 

Quote

 

⁷ Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

⁸ The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

⁹ Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

¹⁰ Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

¹¹ Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

¹² If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

¹³ And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

¹⁴ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

¹⁵ That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

¹⁶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Wayne222]

12 hours ago, Malcomx said:

Several Bible text go against what you have just said. John 3:5-8, if anyone does not baptised in Water and in HolySpirit will not enter the kingdom of God. To go to heaven this has to be fulfilled. In after few days of the coming of Holy Spirit; which the apostles and the believers have received the Holy Spirit while there were some people who Heard the word word of God believe in Jesus  Christ and Baptised in water in the name of Jesus Christ but have to receive the Holy Spirit to fulfill the condition in John 3:5-8 to go to heaven. Only when the apostles laid hands those people whe Heard believes and Baptised in water, they received the Holy Spirit. The apostles died and the work they did stopped while good news was spread. See Acts 8:14-16, Acts 19:1-7. The apostles have the power to pray for the people to receive holy spirit because Jesus only promise to give Holy Spirit to his apostles and not to the entire world. 

No one could take over from where the apostles left, because everyone, was not capable to take over. The apostles have the power to pray for the people in order for the people to receive the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit was first promised to be given to the apostles and not to everyone, and the apostles have the Holy Spirit and also have the power to pray and give Holy Spirit to others. 
Every people heard word of God, believed in Jesus Christ, and baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit. This indicated that the world had not received the Holy Spirit and all of them will not go to haven as John chapter 3 verses 5 to 8 says, “Without the baptisms of Holy Spirit, no one will enter the kingdom of God”.

I cannot make out what your saying brother. The Holy Spirit is given when anyone trust and believes in christ.

[Malcomx]

ok

Edited April 21, 2017 by Malcomx

[Littlelambseativy]

Doctrine is denominational. Follow what Jesus and the Bible teach.

[enoob57]

Doctrine is arrived at by hermeneutical science of written material- letting The Word of God speak for itself in exact meaning intended.... taking that meaning and applying it to understanding and living those precepts. Done accordingly and you will arrive at this

James 1:27 (KJV)

[27] Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Satan has effectively made doctrine and religion unwanted by his perversion of both... all peoples with understanding of Biblical material contain a doctrine whether or not it is correct is determined by their approach to that Biblical material. According to God (by written means) has so determined hermeneutics to be the objective method and it is work as God has said
 

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

 

 

[Neighbor]

On 4/14/2017 at 6:42 PM, missmuffet said:

If a person hears the gospel of Jesus they have a choice. Not all who hear God's word come to Christ.

"Not all who hear God's word come to Christ."

Hi,  I do appreciate and admire your love of our mutual Lord and savior!  I  am sorry to  disagree, at least  disagree in manner and emphasis on how we are saved. None the less;...

May I suggest that no one does,- no one comes to God. All resist Him. Except and until those that receive the specific call  from the Holy Spirit to turn about, do repent of their resistance, and their sin against God. 

And then I question if a that point it is possible to continue resistance, and continue  deliberately in sin against God. God the Father wills out.  He prevails. He has foreknown and predestined the flock of Jesus that He has given His Son our Lord and savior. Our savior loses not a one. Therefore it is God and not the saved  that has all praise and merit, only He is worthy.

I doubt that there is a choice when one does receive that specific call from God the Holy Spirit, not this side of sanity anyway. Individuals do not just say, "I think I'll welcome Jesus into my heart today and be saved." No sir (or ma'am), we all avoid, we all make excuse, we resist, fighting against and  denying God every step of the way; until the Holy Spirit first makes that specific and overwhelming call to us personally, and the scales of denial are removed  from before the our eyes. Then our ears hear the demand by the Holy Spirit that we turn about.

Maybe it is possible to resist that call, I know I tried; but was overwhelmed and submitted just this side of in-sanity. Thinking myself strong, I conclude though that it is really not possible  to do so, and also remain then fully sane; that  instead one is then turned over to strong self delusions.

When I attempt to reconcile what other people tell me about just  "accepting Jesus into my heart" and being saved, I find I am most hesitant to agree. For it sounds much like  God only assists our natural instincts to be good and do good and be saved. I think  there is no such thing in us naturally. Instead I think that we all reject God until God first  makes His  demanding call to us. It is far more than an invitation.

Regardless  it seems always absolute truth that God prevails, His will wins out. He will save who he will save.

 

p.s.- And thank you for the presentation of your view from your own vantage point. I do love to  read individual's conclusions for they give me pause to think read pray and re-evaluate where I am in my own understanding-

Again, Thanks 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Neighbor

[JoshuasonFlower]

3 hours ago, Littlelambseativy said:

Doctrine is denominational. Follow what Jesus and the Bible teach.

Doctrine refers to a stated principle, teaching, by a church or body of those affiliated with a belief system. Calvinist doctrine, Luther's doctrine, and so forth.

Men, who defined what it meant to practice worship and give reverence to God. Be it ceremonial rites, liturgy, what have you. The ego's of men couldn't leave the simple teachings of Christ as it was. Certain of them had to attach pomp and ceremony to make it uniquely their property. As such, as you can read is happening in the world, the universal church of the earthly saints Jesus intended has fractured into allegiances to those properties.

The enemy of truth must certainly be ecstatic at what has happened to the gentle rabbi's precious words. Because now there is that which is more in Satan's corner than in God's as the sins of pride and ego and most things God hates go so far as to use weaponized tongues to decree in yet another invention of human ego, all that is opposed to charity and love,  that those saints who hold to certain doctrines are kidding themselves when they imagine they are that and of Christ too. 

No one comes to Jesus except his Father summons them. 

No one who is of God has any capacity to decree they know better than God the Father who was summoned.
Pure in doctrine? There is no such thing.

Jesus teaching was pure. Doctrine puts walls around the open hearted truth Immanuel died for. And now the world needs what appears to be another savior called reason and determination to resist the evil that hopes to cleave God's church in twain. That we save ourselves from the machinations Satan has called to come to life so as to war against truth. And put people of God at each others throats.

 

 

 

[Spock]

Wayne, whenever in doubt, go back to the most basic evangelistic verse world known - John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." 

It is very clear who you are believing on.......J-E-S-U-S!  He is the one who died on that cross, not the Father and not the HS. 

It was Jesus who gave his blood for you to pay the penalty for your sins. Not the Father and not the HS. 

Quiz in the morning. 

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Wayne, whenever in doubt, go back to the most basic evangelistic verse world known - John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." 

It is very clear who you are believing on.......J-E-S-U-S!  He is the one who died on that cross, not the Father and not the HS. 

It was Jesus who gave his blood for you to pay the penalty for your sins. Not the Father and not the HS. 

Quiz in the morning. 

Hey Spock notice it says God gave his son. Which without we would not be saved.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/14/2017 at 4:24 PM, Wayne222 said:

I ask that question because when a person comes to faith how much truth do they know and how much is required to be saved.                                              The gospel Paul preach to the world was number one Jesus Christ crucified and buried.  Jesus died for our sins. And Jesus was resurrected on the third day.                                               And the promises were given in any presentation of the gospel. That anyone who believes in Jesus would have eternal life.                                        Also the truth of who Jesus was has to be preach. Jesus the son of God not born of man but the only begotten son of God.                                                    If we confess this and believe in our hearts we are saved.                                    Do we have to know about justification by faith. No because that is contain in the truth about Jesus

                  It's like a doctor who saves you. Do you have to know everything he does and how he performed a operation in order to be saved by the doctor. Or did you just trust the doctor.                        I think we can get in a trap by thinking we have to know about all the depth of doctrine in order to be counted as a true christian.                                   Christ crucified is the most inportant. If we have this we are in God's household and are living stones in his temple. 

I don't know how to make more simple than that. 

 Jesus  teach that no herecy can take any one who believes in him, away from him. 

I emphasize that he said anyone who believes that he died on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins. 

The disciples teach the same thing, the made it clear in many ways. 

They spend a lot of time to correct those who had mix up things, and they call them brothers in JESUS CHRIST, in need of correction, but they never said that they were lost in Hell. 

They said that they were entangled in some strange things, that interfear with their growing in Jesus Christ, but never said that they were lost in Hell. 

JESUS CHRIST said many of his children will be found drowning nourishment from other vines and at the same time they may censerly believe that it is the vine of Jesus Christ. 

JESUS CHRIST knew those things will happen, that's why he made the redemption in his blood, so he can not loose no one, we are saved in his name, not because we everything right, and how would we know. 

Paul said that there are many heresies among Believers, but none of them judges them to Hell, unless they denied that Jesus is the CHRIST. 

 

Paul said that