Timing of the seals question

[wingnut-]

39 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

It's not scripture and it's not truth. Got it, He was a false prophet?

The Israelites rejected this book, the church rejected this book.  It is not verifiable and does not meet the criteria to be considered authentic or having been written by Enoch.  Not that hard to understand why no one here considers anything you post from it as holding any weight at all.

[SisterActs2]

Hi Spock

Just to clarify, dear bro - although I would dearly love to meet Sister and fellowship with her, and Marilyn C, and Oz Chick, and HisFirst, we may have to wait until we are in heaven!

It is pure coincidence that I happened to choose the name I have, then discovered that Sister lives in my country too

Oh, btw, I am totally confuuuused!  And I thought I had had a lot of teaching on Revelation.  I am going to go for that link that was provided earlier..........

[Daniel 11:36]

The book of Enoch should not be considered as part of the Lord's word

It is full of many things that are not Biblical and one should read it to see this truth

Also, the seals are not a part of the tribualation period, but a prelude

The seals give the parallels in advance .... and Jesus is the one on the white horse

[Heb 13:8]

15 hours ago, Giller said:

I also do not hold the book of Enoch as scripture, and who knows if the original book of Enoch was truly preserved, and how much of it has been corrupted, but I do know that God has his hand on the bible, and that is good enough for me.

And anyhow your scripture does not really prove anything, timeline wise, and i will put my faith in God, and trust what he says in his word, rather than other books.

[Sister]

22 hours ago, Spock said:

Awesome stuff here Sister. Just curious, Are you related to Sisteract2 also from Australia?  spock

Thanks Spock.  No I don't know Sisteract2, but I like the name she chose!

 

Quote

 

Anyhow, you said something that I have held for the past few years, but not dogmatic about- you believe the four horsemen have already been opened.  Of course, if you believe that, who is the rider on the white horse? It can't be Jesus, because it makes no sense that he is opening a seal that is about him (white horse).  So, who do you see is the rider of the first horse?  

 

 

 

I believe the rider on the white horse is the RCC, the mother church.  The crown represents authority.  Souls are conquered through that authority, and many Christian churches are born out of her, but go their own way.  In my opinion, Christ is preached, but not on a solid foundation.  It looks holy from the outside.

 

Quote

Because im leaning toward an Islamic coalition to be the 10 nations, I wondered if Muhammed was that rider. He certainly has to be false prophet number one in all of history. Look at how many converts he has gotten to follow him, in such a short time too. Amazing results. 

Satan is smart, he will use the so called "Christian nations" to make the big changes. They are the global leaders with the money and the powers of persuasion.  However,  I have no doubt that the 10 kings will use an Islamic nation (ie Saudia Arabia) to bring the world together.  Mecca is the capital of the Islamic world, and if they are working with the 10 kings, they will advise all their Islamic brothers to agree to the Mark of the Beast.  I believe they are only being used because the kings of the East end up warring the False Prophet's kingdom (King of the North). 

In the OT prophesies, the Kings of the East are called the Medes.  The Medes represent Iran today and all their brothers.  All the Muslim brothers will unite because they are unhappy about something....something they were maybe promised but didn't receive.  Their hatred and anger will start off the 3rd world war at the end of the 3 1/2 trib.

Revelation 16:12   And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

 

Remember in the past when the Mede's took Babylon?, it will happen again.  God is going to use the Mede's to destroy Babylon.  History will repeat.

check this chapter out;

 Isaiah 13:4   The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

  Isaiah 13:5   They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

(All nations gathered)

  Isaiah 13:6   Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

  Isaiah 13:7   Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

  Isaiah 13:8   And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

  Isaiah 13:9   Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

  Isaiah 13:10   For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

  Isaiah 13:11   And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

  Isaiah 13:12   I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

  Isaiah 13:13   Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

  Isaiah 13:14   And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

  Isaiah 13:15   Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

  Isaiah 13:16   Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

  Isaiah 13:17   Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

  Isaiah 13:18   Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

  Isaiah 13:19   And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

(turned to ashes)

  Isaiah 13:20   It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

 

(I hope we can agree that this whole chapter is speaking of the end, and God is using the Mede's to destroy Babylon again, but this time for good. Then God will destroy the Mede's)

Quote

Let me know how you see how the four horsemen have played out. Thanks.

2nd horse - 1st and 2nd world wars

3rd horse - Famine always follows after war

4th horse - The end time beast arrives, because death and destruction follow (in the 6th seal)

All the horses keep on running.  They don't stop.

Tried to keep it short, but that chapter got in the way!

Edited May 8, 2017 by Sister

[Revelation Man]

1. The FIRST SEAL = 1st Horse is the White Horse, it is the Anti-Christ being allowed to come forth, God has heretofore restrained him from coming forth onto the world scene. Jesus "Opens" the Seal and releases him. White Horses throughout history have represented A CONQUEROR and thus the very scriptures say he goes forth to Conquer. This guy has a bow instead of the Sword (of the Spirit) like Jesus and His Crown has a different name than Jesus' it means a Wreath, or something they gave out during the Games they staged. Jesus Crown was a Kingly Crown, and he had MANY CROWNS. 

2. The SECOND SEAL = 2nd Horse is a Red Horse, and power was given over him to take Peace from man-kind and the world. Of course when the Anti-Christ goes forth to Conquer you are going to get wars and fighting from all the world.

3. The THIRD SEAL = 3rd Horse is the Black Horse, the rider thereon had the balances in his hand, referencing Judgment and Famine. Many people will die of famine no doubt, with major wars ongoing, that upsets the balance we humans have. Growing Shipping etc. etc. become perilous.

4. The FOURTH SEAL = 4th Horse is the Pale or Pale Green Horse, he is Death and the Grave, and of course he follows the other three, a 1/4 of man-kind will be killed by War/Hunger/Death. The Pale Green Horse represents Death and Disease/Infection. 

5. The FIFTH SEAL = The Martyrs under the Alter, these are TRIBULATION SAINTS Murdered by the Anti-Christ and his Henchmen, that is why they come here, after the Conquering and Deaths of more than a Billion people. These are not the Church pre-rapture, they are in Heaven Marrying the Lamb. These are told to wait until their Brothers are killed also (OR UNTIL THE Anti-Christs reign of terror is over and Jesus Returns).

6. The Sixth Seal = Earthquakes and Celestial happenings. In the First 5 Seals man-kind sees things that have happened throughout the ages, they do not yet understand this is Gods doings, Jesus is Releasing the Seal Judgments on them, THEN the Sixth Seal hits !! And they finally understand this WRATH is of God and they cry out, Hide us from the Wrath of the Lamb !! What caused them to finally recognize this was Gods Wrath? Well there is a Great Earthquake like never seen before, then the Sun becomes as Black as Sackcloth and the Moon as Blood and some meteorites fall to earth. This Earthquake is so big every Mountain is moved out of her place. Devastation no doubt, they try to hide from God but then cry out for the Rocks to fall on them and hide the from the face of the Lamb and His Wrath that is come upon them. This is when it hits them they are in God's Judgments, they finally understand after the Seal Six that all these things are GODS WRATH Come upon them, that they are in he Day of the Lord.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The Seals are Gods Wrath, man-kind only realizes it at the Sixth Seal. They thought the wars were just Wars like WW1 and WW2 but when the Seal Six hits it suddenly dawns on them, this is chapter 6 in the book of Revelation, we are in Gods Wrath.

7. The Seventh Seal = The Seven Trumpet Judgments, they are far worse than the Seven Seals and the Seven Vials will be even worse than the Seven Trumpet Judgments. And they are all interconnected, one ushers in the others. The Seals/Trumpets and Vials are the WRATH OF GOD.......They start on the Day of the Lord, they last 3 1/2 years until Jesus' return.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Revelation Man

[wingnut-]

On 5/6/2017 at 2:05 PM, Spock said:

Fellow prophecy buffs,

One simple question for you- "is it possible" the seven seals of Rev 6 could COMMENCE in the second half of Daniels 70th week, after the abomination of desolation?  In other words, the seals, trumpets and bowls will all be opened during the GREAT TRIBULATION ONLY (3.5 years = 42 months= 1260 days) 

Here is the 2nd seal in Rev 6:

3When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

Notice, the rider was given power to TAKE PEACE from the Earth and to kill.

Many prophecy buffs admit that right after the signing of the peace treaty pursuant to Daniel 9:24, there will be peace on Earth which will even allow for Israel to rebuild its temple.  I assume this will be the temple the AC will do his abomination thingy in. So, is it possible right after the abomination peace will be then be taken away? Enter seal 1.

If not, why not?  Thanks.

oh, if you know of anyone who has written articles or books supporting this line of reasoning, would you mind sharing their name or book title with me. Thanks.

Spock

 

Hey brother,

Not sure if you recall my position on this so I'll keep it short and simple.  The first four seals have already been opened, evidence can be seen in the daily news.

[Spock]

16 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Hey brother,

Not sure if you recall my position on this so I'll keep it short and simple.  The first four seals have already been opened, evidence can be seen in the daily news.

Brother,

That has been my position for the past two years or thereabouts, but As you can see by this thread, I'm open to investigate other options, such as the opening of the seals during the Great Trib. 

One thing though I do feel more confident in saying is this- I have a hard time seeing the opening of the seals during the first 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week.  That makes no sense to me for obvious reasons: you just have this peace treaty signed, the temple is being rebuilt, people are rejoicing in a time of peace, right?

well, seasls 2-4 is anything but peaceful. I know people want to shove these seals somewhere so at the beginning seems logical to them.....but not to me.

so, they have already been opened or they get opened pretty much at the abomination of desolation, when all hell breaks loose. Rev Man is feeding me hope that this theory may be the right one. Stay tuned....

Thats how I see it.........for now.  Of course, I'm always open to learn and always flexible in my thinking.

to god be the glory,

spock

Edited May 8, 2017 by Spock

[wingnut-]

6 minutes ago, Spock said:

Brother,

That has been my position for the past two years or thereabouts, but As you can see by this thread, I'm open to investigate other options, such as the opening of the seals during the Great Trib. 

One thing though I do feel more confident in saying is this- I have a hard time seeing the opening of the seals during the first 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week.  That makes no sense to me for obvious reasons: you just have this peace treaty signed, the temple is being rebuilt, people are rejoicing in a time of peace, right?

well, seasls 2-4 is anything but peaceful. I know people want to shove these seals somewhere so at the beginning seems logical to them.....but not to me.

so, they have already been opened or they get opened pretty much at the abomination of desolation, when all hell breaks loose. Rev Man is feeding me hope that this theory may be the right one. Stay tuned....

Thats how I see it.........for now.  Of course, I'm always open to learn and always flexible in my thinking.

to god be the glory,

spock

 

I hear you brother, but I think you are correct for many reasons, most important one being the rider on the red horse.

 

Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

 

Now when was the first murder committed?   Not too hard to identify this fella.

God bless

[Spock]

53 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

I hear you brother, but I think you are correct for many reasons, most important one being the rider on the red horse.

 

Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

 

Now when was the first murder committed?   Not too hard to identify this fella.

God bless

Wait here......are you saying SATAN is the rider of the first seal and CAIN is the rider of the second seal?