Salvation by works(Lordship Salvation) or Free Grace

[Guest]

Lordship Salvation vs. Free Grace    which does the Word of God teach?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Voice...

    Welcome to Worthy,the welcome Forum is where we come to meet,greet & welcome new members.....please don't think we are ignoring your question,we do look forward to joining you in a Discussion Forum to address the Topic of your choice......can you share a little about yourself,we look forward to getting to know you!

                                                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

(sent you a PM with some posting info )

[other one]

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

Works don't save you, but saved people do works.  If people don't do works are they really saved.

You can chase your tail round and round like my old cat and never get everyone to agree 

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Voice said:

Lordship Salvation vs. Free Grace    which does the Word of God teach?

For discussion reasons, perhaps it is best for you to give a definition for each so everyone knows how to address them.  There may be as many definitions as there are members.

[Fridaywinds]

1 hour ago, Voice said:

Lordship Salvation vs. Free Grace    which does the Word of God teach?

 

 

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"

Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts. Read more @ https://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html

 

Question: "What is free grace? What is Free Grace Theology?"

Answer: Free Grace Theology is essentially a view of soteriology grown from more traditional Baptist roots. It was systematized by theologians such as Dr.’s Charles Ryrie and Zane Hodges in the 1980s, mainly as a response to Lordship Theology or Lordship Salvation, which has its roots in Reformed theology. Today, Free Grace is still going strong, supported by such Christian voices as Tony Evans, Erwin Lutzer, Bruce Wilkinson, Dallas Theological Seminary, and the Grace Evangelical Society. Read more @ https://www.gotquestions.org/free-grace.html

[Limey_Bob]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

For discussion reasons, perhaps it is best for you to give a definition for each so everyone knows how to address them.  There may be as many definitions as there are members.

Roman Catholic Theology traditionally confuses Justification and Sanctification, combining aspects and attributes of each and then applying them to the other. In traditional (Calvinist - also called covenant theology), they are mutually exclusive: Justification being a legal forensic act when the Judge (God the Father) declares us not guilty on the basis of Christ's righteousness which has been imputed to us, and our sins which are imputed to Christ. In the new Covenant Justification is entirely by God, and it is a one off event, without any human works: "and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:24).

 

Sanctification follows on after Justification, it's the work of the Holy Spirit, working together with us (so human works are involved), in gradually making us more holy and separated from sin to God and his work. As I have said Roman Catholic Theology traditionally confuses Justification and Sanctification by merging them, in the Protestant tradition, starting with some of the extreme holiness groups of the 19th century, many of these groups also began to firstly confuse and then to merge Justification with Sanctification. Lordship salvation is the belief, which developed out of the holiness movement, that we must add our own human good works to justification, by making Christ Lord, in order to be saved. But this completely ignores Romans 4:5 which states that God only saves the ungodly who are NOT WORKING for their own salvation. Traditionally such holiness groups, as well as those advocating Lordship salvation, add firstly repentance, and secondly cleaning up your own life in order to gain justification, thereby misunderstanding that whilst repentance and cleaning up your life is indeed commanded by God (in James 2 for instance), however, these things are a part of sanctification and not justification. Once you understand the difference, Lordship salvation becomes extremely easy to understand!

 

The rise of dispensational theology in America at the turn of the 20th century has been one of the other factors for the rise of Lordship salvation, as few in that movement possess a good grasp of Justification and Sanctification, and so are highly susceptible to confusing the two. Thus in conclusion, salvation (i.e. justification) is by grace and completely without any human works by us (Romans 4:5). Lordship salvation isn't wrong to add repentance, holiness and good works into the mix, as they are indeed commanded: "20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. (James 2:20-24), but good works are a part of our sanctification, and most certainly not our Justification, so by confusing the two, much false doctrine and error arises. It's interesting that both Romans 4:5 and James 2, quote Abraham's works, but give polar opposite commands (i.e don't work, and you must work). The answer is obvious, Romans 4:5 applies Abraham's works to Justification, and James 2:22 applies his works to sanctification.

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Voice said:

Lordship Salvation vs. Free Grace    which does the Word of God teach?

They is one Savior for all, one Savior who saves from Hell. 

Your question can be translated. 

Can the Savior save those who believe in him from Hell on a count of his name only. 

If the answer is yes, then he can call himself a Savior without wicknesses,

Does he needs our own holiness to save us from Hell, no he doesn't, many of the Believers may not see him in their every day life because of their own ways, but the still see him High and lifted up , and sited on the Throne of God, as JESUS CHRIST the Savior , who die for the forgiveness of our sins. 

 

 

 

[Willa]

 

After looking up the definitions, I guess I believe in Lordship salvation.  But no one understands all that at first.  We just know that there is a God Who knows me, I have sinned and need forgiveness,  He loves me so much He sent Jesus to die in my place;  So I pray and ask God to forgive me.  I hunger to read the Bible and pray.  Some desire to immediately be baptized.  Most desire to live a life pleasing to God.  It is the work of God to change us into the likeness of Christ, from glory to glory, as we are cleaned by His Word and our minds are renewed.  Learning to hear His voice and follow Him is a growing process.  Even Samuel had to be taught how to recognize God's voice.  It takes time to become acquainted with Scripture.  It takes time to recognize God's attributes, just Who He is.  The more we learn, the more we love Him.  We learn that we can't live the life in our own strength, but must rely on the leading and love of Christ in us.

Genuine faith will produce works.  When we are born again, the life of christ in us changes attitudes and produces godly works.  They are not of self, but are motivated by God's love as we walk in the Spirit.  Salvation is a gift from God.  Faith is a gift from God.  They are produced by God's grace.  We do nothing to earn it or deserve it.  But the response to our salvation and newfound relationship with God is to surrender to Christ as Lord and God.  This was the response of Thomas when he put his hand in Jesus' side and saw the holes in his wrists.  My Lord and my God!  When we truly believe we are filled with thanksgiving and joy.  

Joh 3:16  AMP  For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

20 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

Roman Catholic Theology traditionally confuses Justification and Sanctification, combining aspects and attributes of each and then applying them to the other. In traditional (Calvinist - also called covenant theology), they are mutually exclusive: Justification being a legal forensic act when the Judge (God the Father) declares us not guilty on the basis of Christ's righteousness which has been imputed to us, and our sins which are imputed to Christ. In the new Covenant Justification is entirely by God, and it is a one off event, without any human works: "and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:24).

 

Sanctification follows on after Justification, it's the work of the Holy Spirit, working together with us (so human works are involved), in gradually making us more holy and separated from sin to God and his work. As I have said Roman Catholic Theology traditionally confuses Justification and Sanctification by merging them, in the Protestant tradition, starting with some of the extreme holiness groups of the 19th century, many of these groups also began to firstly confuse and then to merge Justification with Sanctification. Lordship salvation is the belief, which developed out of the holiness movement, that we must add our own human good works to justification, by making Christ Lord, in order to be saved. But this completely ignores Romans 4:5 which states that God only saves the ungodly who are NOT WORKING for their own salvation. Traditionally such holiness groups, as well as those advocating Lordship salvation, add firstly repentance, and secondly cleaning up your own life in order to gain justification, thereby misunderstanding that whilst repentance and cleaning up your life is indeed commanded by God (in James 2 for instance), however, these things are a part of sanctification and not justification. Once you understand the difference, Lordship salvation becomes extremely easy to understand!

 

The rise of dispensational theology in America at the turn of the 20th century has been one of the other factors for the rise of Lordship salvation, as few in that movement possess a good grasp of Justification and Sanctification, and so are highly susceptible to confusing the two. Thus in conclusion, salvation (i.e. justification) is by grace and completely without any human works by us (Romans 4:5). Lordship salvation isn't wrong to add repentance, holiness and good works into the mix, as they are indeed commanded: "20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. (James 2:20-24), but good works are a part of our sanctification, and most certainly not our Justification, so by confusing the two, much false doctrine and error arises. It's interesting that both Romans 4:5 and James 2, quote Abraham's works, but give polar opposite commands (i.e don't work, and you must work). The answer is obvious, Romans 4:5 applies Abraham's works to Justification, and James 2:22 applies his works to sanctification.

 

Thank you for your from this word from the Holy Spirit. You distinguish the difference and you have made it crystal clear . 

My friend who read your post is blessing your name , he said I have seen the light, I had been taught that without Holiness we cannot see God, and I had come to believe that I must be Holy to go to Heaven, 

He said I tried to be Holy so Jesus won't send me to Hell. 

And continued I have leaved with the fear of sin, and non stop I kept saying "I repent , forgive me from my sins", 

He told me , I am free, I am going to see a Hockey game, because they had teach me, because I loved the game so much, they told me, that's Idolatry, and Idolaters go to Hell. 

Idolatry is a sin. 

He said the told me no sin can enter Heaven, and I must be free , cleanse from sin, live a Holy life, if not, I will not go to Heaven, JESUS CHRIST blood has no power without my continued repentance, and holy living. 

That's how they explained the word believe in Jonh 3:16, 

That I must prove that I believe by been a slave to Jesus, a little rebellious thoughts, and he will burned me away from his vine. 

My tormentor were my friends, who told me, my mother was lost to Hell, because she didn't understand many things, and while believing in Jesus Christ like a possesd woman, she followed the quidance of the Priests, 

She had obey God who gives the command, believe in Jesus Christ, my Son but she followed the preists in their ways. 

Her favorite saint was mother Mary, because she was ascented after her death to Heaven without going to pergatory. 

What a blessed truth, I wish she had understand that she will also be ascented into Heaven after she dies, but whether she knew that or not, does not really matter, JESUS CHRIST knows what to do and he doesn't need our knowledge in that matter. 

I keep saying this to my sister, finally she said, I understand but just in case. 

God bless you, 

How bewtiful are the feet of those who bring good knews. 

Bless and the peace makers. 

You brought peace in the heart of my friend, you brought back the joy of the Lord in his life. 

He said Jesus and every one in Heaven are joyful because I believe, and from now on , I am going to have the joy of the Lord and Heavens in my heart, in this matter. 

 

 

[warrior12]

Just now, OneLight said:

For discussion reasons, perhaps it is best for you to give a definition for each so everyone knows how to address them.  There may be as many definitions as there are members.

+2

If the poster post a question with terminology that is not defined, then what are the reader to do, come to their own conclusions.  No, you the poster should at least define each  term so that readers can process the question as to your source of the definition.   Please note, i am not bashing the poster, but simply pointing our how we can avoid misconceptions .