pretrib Timing of the Rapture

[Diaste]

On 10/31/2017 at 12:14 PM, missmuffet said:

I believe I am with you on your belief of the pretribulation timing. In my heart nothing else makes sense.

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

[Diaste]

On 10/31/2017 at 2:09 PM, missmuffet said:

What about the great commission? It has nothing to do with the pretribulation rapture of the Church.

Question: "What is the Great Commission?"

Answer: Matthew 28:19-20 contains what has come to be called the Great Commission: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Jesus gave this command to the apostles shortly before He ascended into heaven, and it essentially outlines what Jesus expected the apostles, and those who followed them, to do in His absence.

It is interesting that in the original Greek, the only specific command in Matthew 28:19-20 is “make disciples.” The Great Commission instructs us to make disciples while we are going throughout the world and while we are going about our daily activities. How are we to make disciples? By baptizing them and teaching them all that Jesus commanded. “Make disciples” is the command of the Great Commission. “As you are going,” “baptizing,” and “teaching” are the means by which we fulfill the command to “make disciples.”

Many understand Acts 1:8 as part of the Great Commission as well, “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” The Great Commission is enabled by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are to be Christ's witnesses, fulfilling the Great Commission in our cities (Jerusalem), in our states and countries (Judea and Samaria), and anywhere else God sends us (to the ends of the earth).

https://www.gotquestions.org/great-commission.html

The reliance on a website eschewing the scriptures of truth is the state of the church at large; and that is horrifying.

[Diaste]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:24 AM, Dennis1209 said:

No one knows the day nor the hour of our catching away. To keep my comments as brief as possible I'm omitting supporting scripture.

The Lord could have come for his church at anytime from the day of His ascension, and there are no preconditions or prophecy that needs to be fulfilled. With that factual statement, and a pretribulational Rapture viewpoint, I'd like to discuss your eschatology. 

I suspect it's entirely possible true believers might witness the destruction of Damascus, Syria, the destruction of Elam, the Ezekiel 38: 39: invasion, one of them, some of them, or all of them before our catching away. With my pretribulational view, born again believers are not appointed to the wrath of God, contrary to some opinions, is the entire seven weeks of Jacobs trouble, the seven year tribulation. So, sometime prior to the seven year tribulation having the P.T. viewpoint, born again believers (the church) is out of here.

We know for a fact after the Antichrist confirms a covenant with Israel, in 1260 days (3 1/2 years in the Jewish calendar), the A.C. will commit the abomination of desolation in the temple, setting himself up as god. By this point we know that all Jews and Israelite's will be fleeing the country for their lives. There will be no IDF around to protect them.

It appears to me the Ezekiel 38: invasion is separate and distinct and prior to the start of the great tribulation and not part of it. Now, at the conclusion of the Ezekiel 38: 39: invasion, Israel will be burning Gog / Magog's weapons of war for seven years.  This places the invasion of Gog / Magog a minimum of 3 1/2 years prior to the start of the great tribulation, no? I personally suspect the timing of the Rapture might possibly occur during the interval between the destruction of Gog / Magog and the signing of the covenant? That's only my speculative thoughts, what's yours???

One other thing that seems to be changing from my long time eschatological studies and view. I've always thought the evil thought and hook in they jaw of Gog / Magog that draws the coalition to invade Israel was either oil, or all the benefit from the chemicals of the Dead Sea. Recently Israel has discovered a mammoth field of natural gas and oil off their shores. We know Russia's major export and economic engine is petroleum, but has great difficulty getting it out of the ground and transporting it to market.

One thing that has recently come to light is, Russia is having major difficulties in food production and feeding its people. God has blessed Israel with producing and exporting some of the best produce and fruit the world has ever seen. It's produced in Israel and on land just on the East side of the Jordan River. The hook in Gog's jaw seems to symbolize the mouth, and what does the mouth do, eat? So in addition to the vast wealth being created by the vast natural gas reserves, could an additional reason for the invasion be to take control of Israels food and production? 

With Russia's presence, airports, military buildup and sea ports now established in Syria, they have effectively taken control of Syria and have the means, incentive and opportunity of robbing Israel by force. A good flash point or trigger for the invasion would be the IDF dropping a nuclear bomb on Damascus, Syria because of an immediate security threat to their nation by ISIS, terror organizations or a Muslim coalition? From the reports I've seen, the vast majority of the civilian population has fled Damascus and mostly the jihadists, Hezbollah, terrorists, Muslim brotherhood and those hostile toward Israel.

So... With current events and biblical prophecy, how do you all see this panning out? One thing is for certain, with each passing day the picture becomes more clear and sharper.

I guess there's nothing like starting with incorrect assumptions and unbiblical 'facts'. The only comprehensive, accurate outline of the end of the age is given by the administrator of the that time in Matt 24. 

The order is as follows and none else:

Beginning of sorrows. (first half of the week)

A of D. (Midpoint of the week)

Great tribulation. (Midpoint ending sometime late in the last half)

Jesus appears. (In conjunction with the following...)

Gathering of the elect. (When Jesus appears)

The Wrath of God. 

Just from this outline we see a 'pretrib' gathering is not mentioned while a post trib gathering is clearly visible. Allowing logic to intrude on perception we conclude no pretrib rapture will occur.

Why is there such a focus on Russia these days? Baffling. Our focus needs to be on Israel in particular and the Mideast generally. The next meaningful event to occur is the rise of the beast from the region of Mesopotamia. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Diaste

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I guess there's nothing like starting with incorrect assumptions and unbiblical 'facts'. The only comprehensive, accurate outline of the end of the age is given by the administrator of the that time in Matt 24. 

The order is as follows and none else:

Beginning of sorrows. (first half of the week)

A of D. (Midpoint of the week)

Great tribulation. (Midpoint ending sometime lats in the last half)

Jesus appears. (In conjunction with the following)

Gathering of the elect. (When Jesus appears)

The Wrath of God. 

Just from this outline we see a 'pretrib' gathering is not mentioned while a post trib gathering is clearly visible. Allowing logic to intrude on perception we conclude no pretrib rapture will occur.

Why is there such a focus on Russia these days? Baffling. Our focus needs to be on Israel in particular and the Mideast generally. The next meaningful event to occur is the rise of the beast from the region of Mesopotamia. 

I got to this point myself after wading thru acres of Darby's stuff and a veritable land-mine strewn miasma of web-disinfo. Fake built on fake built on shaky and out of context verses.

The scripture is used as a point counterpoint for massive arrays of theological diatribes, bolstered by many men's doctrines and falsehoods. Not necessarily deliberate errors, and not necessarily altogether disingenuous either.

The scriptures, ALL OF THEM, canon or non-canon, are for us to use, benefit from and think about. The more staunchly someone leans on man's ideas is an indication to me of the distance I must steer clear of that person.
If God needed mankind to 'protect' His words then He would not have let us decide for ourselves. However, there are always these 'thought police' that try to destroy free and original thinkers by various underhanded means.

So in this mix of point and counterpoint and mere noise, the simple scripture stands out. And the ones that MOST peddle the erroneous doctrines (such as Darby's) are the ones that scream 'legalistic', or 'heretical' the loudest.

Understand Enoch. Watch Israel closely! Be prepared, really prepared!!!

[Daniel 11:36]

The Lord's discussion in Matthew 24 is all about Israel's time of Jacob's trouble .... there is nothing about any other nation in the Lord's discourse

 

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Lord's discussion in Matthew 24 is all about Israel's time of Jacob's trouble .... there is nothing about any other nation in the Lord's discourse

 

I'm assuming that's based on the way you want it to be since you didn't support your statement with any scripture.

• Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  Matthew 24:9

Jesus is speaking to His disciples about those who name the name of Christ . . . . according to His own words.  To say that Israel is going to be hated by ALL NATIONS because of the name of Jesus isn't even remotely reasonable, much less scriptural.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Last Daze

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Lord's discussion in Matthew 24 is all about Israel's time of Jacob's trouble .... there is nothing about any other nation in the Lord's discourse

 

Adding to what Last Daze said above; Did ya forget to read Hebrews? It's in the bible right between Philemon and James. I know you probably think it's obscure. There are 13 chapters in the book of Hebrews and a great deal is explained about the believers lineage. In case ya dint 'no', we are one and the same in Christ. Did ya see that one verse in Galatians that says, "There is no Jew or Greek, all are one in Christ."? 

In Romans we done got grafted in to the family! Maybe you missed that book too. You'll find it between Acts and 1 Corinthians.

Yeah, yeah....and the old covenant is dead and gone, the new one is here in Jesus! 

We are of Abraham and therefore of Israel. Jacob's trouble is our trouble.

Maybe you just need to review the letters. 

And to finish....who are the angels Jesus sent gathering from all the earth after great tribulation? Would he not just gather the Jews since all the christians have been gone for close to 7 years?

[Daniel 11:36]

There are two different gatherings at the end of the tribulation period of scripture, of Israel, and then the Gentles

These gatherings are of mortals who survive the coming tribulation period

The gathering to immortality of both Gentiles and a few Jews is one thing .... but just after, Israel as a national people is the primary subject of the tribulation period .... the 70th week decreed for the nation

Study your Bible for the full picture and stop jerking around with your "post tribulation" ideas 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:24 AM, Dennis1209 said:

 I personally suspect the timing of the Rapture might possibly occur during the interval between the destruction of Gog / Magog and the signing of the covenant? That's only my speculative thoughts, what's yours???

 

Hi Dennis,

I agree with you & I also believe we wont have long to wait now. It`s going to be a mega busy time in the world and the Body of Christ from now till then.

I`m doing my next series in my blogs, `The Tribulation Calendar,` and have included all these details -

 

There are many details in God`s word regarding the 7 years.

- The Jewish Calendar and the extra month.

- Israel burying the dead for 7 months after the Russian war, to cleanse the land. (Ez. 39: 12)

- The dedication of the Temple and the start of the sacrifices. (Dan. 8: 13 & 14)

- 2,300 days from sacrifices - Abomination of Desolation - cleansing. (Dan. 8: 13 & 14)

- Holy city (Jerusalem) trodden down by the Gentiles, 42 months. (Rev. 11: 2)

- The Abomination of desolation. (Dan. 9: 27,  Matt. 24: 15,  Rev. 13: 15)

- 2 witnesses prophesying for 1,260 days. (Rev. 11: 3)

- The anti-Christ given power for 42 months. (Rev. 13: 5)

- The days to be shortened. (Matt. 24: 22)

- The Lord`s return. (Zech. 14: 7)

- The extra months & days, 1,290 days & 1,335 days. (Dan. 12: 11 & 12)

- The temple cleansed, 1,290 days. (Dan. 12: 11)

- The festival of celebration, and date. (Dan. 12: 12)

 

So we can see there is much to fit together. Hope you can comment when I post the series, bro.

regards, Marilyn.

 

BTW I will be posting the years & dates I see these things will occur.

 

[Dennis1209]

33 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

I agree with you & I also believe we wont have long to wait now. It`s going to be a mega busy time in the world and the Body of Christ from now till then.

I`m doing my next series in my blogs, `The Tribulation Calendar,` and have included all these details -

 

There are many details in God`s word regarding the 7 years.

- The Jewish Calendar and the extra month.

- Israel burying the dead for 7 months after the Russian war, to cleanse the land. (Ez. 39: 12)

- The dedication of the Temple and the start of the sacrifices. (Dan. 8: 13 & 14)

- 2,300 days from sacrifices - Abomination of Desolation - cleansing. (Dan. 8: 13 & 14)

- Holy city (Jerusalem) trodden down by the Gentiles, 42 months. (Rev. 11: 2)

- The Abomination of desolation. (Dan. 9: 27,  Matt. 24: 15,  Rev. 13: 15)

- 2 witnesses prophesying for 1,260 days. (Rev. 11: 3)

- The anti-Christ given power for 42 months. (Rev. 13: 5)

- The days to be shortened. (Matt. 24: 22)

- The Lord`s return. (Zech. 14: 7)

- The extra months & days, 1,290 days & 1,335 days. (Dan. 12: 11 & 12)

- The temple cleansed, 1,290 days. (Dan. 12: 11)

- The festival of celebration, and date. (Dan. 12: 12)

 

So we can see there is much to fit together. Hope you can comment when I post the series, bro.

regards, Marilyn.

 

BTW I will be posting the years & dates I see these things will occur.

 

Hi Marilyn,

Yeah, I think we're seeing a rapid escalation in preparation of the coming end-time events. We're seeing a convergence of all last days prophecy. 

I usually pay particular attention to biblical numbers, especially in prophecy. You brought up something interesting from Daniel, and it's also in Revelation I believe, that's not mentioned in scripture that I can find.. The extra days following the conclusion of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming., beyond the second half of the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation. Just from memory, I recall one verse being 30 days longer, and another verse extending I think 45 days longer? 

I've heard it mentioned that this 'extension' could be for setting up the millennial Kingdom and rule of the nations. It makes sense, what do you think?