The Dark Side of Christianity

[Steve_S]

I have cleaned this thread. Please be graceful in your replies.

[Devarim]

Yes people do not come in size perfect. We are commanded by King Yeshua to love one another as He loves us. We are not perfect and so the yuge challenge is to obey King Yeshua. As He led us in prayer asking the Father to forgive us as we forgive those who trespass against us. This is gigantic and we must overcome ourselves to obey no matter what. Only by example can we slow the world we are His own. 

[john1]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 2:14 PM, DesertSW said:

things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God.

If you always love, and grow in the knowledge of Christ, you will always love and honor God, going to church means nothing by itself, and you can find all kinds of evil in some people in church.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 6

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

 

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46

When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

 

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 12/26/2017 at 3:34 PM, DesertSW said:

I'm sorry, no offense to you, but I have heard this response 1,000x and it's hogwash.

That's the "go to" response for Christians behaving badly. The old tried and true, "well, they weren't Christians to begin with."

It's the "Escape" button that Christians press when the dilemma of Christians doing sinful and evil things comes up. But that's all it is, an excuse and a quick way to try and squash the problem.

The reality is that real Christians do sin and commit evil acts against other Christians. The reality is then Christians don't address the problem and run to the "they weren't Christians to begin with".

So even though a TRUE Christian served Christ and the church for 20 years, commits a sin and violates God's Word. Then the "Christians can't do no wrong" group comes out and throws that Christian under the bus and claims they weren't a true believer to begin with.

That response and belief should be rolled up and placed under a bird cage because that is where it belongs. The reality is Christians sin and do things that they shouldn't do. They hurt others and sin against people and God. To say otherwise is a disgrace and to put one's head in the sand.

 

 

I think context is in order here because you're going to meet quite a bit of resistance with such honesty in your first post. And from most every Christian community board you visit across the Web. 

Personal experience shares here as did you. There are those in our community who are patently opposed to Jesus teaching concerning eternal salvation. Hard to imagine but true. Why? I've no idea. Who in their right mind would not want the eternal security in Christ that Christ died to seal for those who come to him at His Father's calling? When The Father knew those who would respond to the Salvation Truth before He created anything at all. 

Part of the reason you'll encounter such opposition is because of what is portrayed throughout the parable teachings in the New Testament. In short, those who are not in Christ. As the parable in the book of first John recalled for us when as amazing and unthinkable as it would be for those in Christ today , in the time of our Lord there were Apostles who departed from Christ. They did not concur with his teaching. 1 John 2 . 

And yet, Jesus was not surprised. 

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."  [1 John 2 and verse 19]

We do nothing in order to garner our Salvation.

Christ did it all on the cross. And God our Father predestined all things prior to the world's beginning and for his glory. God knew who among all people would come , hearken, unto the call to Salvation. And God knows the heart of every living human that ever was. Those who departed from our Lord and his fellows were not persuaded by the Gospel Jesus taught. It didn't sound right or else why depart from a teaching that would save their souls eternally? 

They did so that those in future who would encounter such as you have, in my opinion of course not holy writ here, so as to forewarn us, teach us so as to not let us be surprised when we encounter such a ones, because they were not one with Christ. They were not called. Even though they called themselves Christian. God was, is, not fooled. 

Be not you therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be you partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began....[1 Timothy 1:8~9]

Opponents of Christ's eternal salvation teaching will say of those who cleave to it, that it is false. Because it is a license to sin. 

In my experience, because I've inquired, those persons are what I call chicken readers. They hunt and peck through the scriptures for passages that say what they need it to say to sustain their errant view. However, they have never actually read the Bible in full. Or, the New Testament. 

Otherwise, they'd know of this truth that sustains what Jesus died to deliver. Eternal Salvation. Not of our work so that anyone would boast, but as a free gift of God himself to those whom he called to his Son. And who's names he knew and wrote into the Book of Life of the Lamb of God, His Son, before the world came into being. 

"The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.  "Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.  By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…" [1 John 3:9-10]

In my experience of many years, the evidences of what you encountered as strong opposition to God's worth through sacrifice of his only son is a sign those persons are not in Christ. No one who is in Christ makes a habit of sinning. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Those who think they can accept Christ and live like the Devil are Hell bound. 
That's not the dark side of Christianity. That's the dark side plagiarizing the word of Christ and the name Christian. 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by TickledPinkinChristWoot!
bolded scripture for clarity and edited a typo today 1/3

[MyLordsServant]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

Like you said, some Christians like making excuses for these people.

I wouldn't call it a dark side of Christianity, because there is no dark side. What darkness is there, in a relationship between you and Jesus?

It's rather a dark side of human nature, influenced by this demon infested world.

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:14 AM, DesertSW said:

Let me first start off with a disclaimer. I believe in the Word of God and in all the fundamental tenants of Christianity. I became a Christian back in 1993 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I gave up trusting in my good works and put all my faith in what Jesus had done on the cross, for my salvation.

The "dark side" I speak of is something that is not really talked about or discussed in churches. I've attended all types of protestant churches in the past 25 years (Baptist, denominational, non-denominational) and not one really discussed this aspect of Christianity. It is factually evident and not just experiential, although I have personally experienced it, it is backed by factual evidence.

This dark side is about how born-again Christians will betray you and the faith. I've personally experienced 10 of those betrayals over the course of 25 years. The latest one which was my wife, and her parents, was the most devastating. You can read about it here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/211844-my-marriage-divorce-testimony/

It would take quite a bit of typing to go into deep detail on these betrayals but all of them involved true Believers who ended up betraying and hurting me in such ways that left deep scars that will never go away. These betrayals involved lying, breaking promises, breaking vows/covenants, leaving the faith/church, disobeying tenants of the faith and sinning against God and breaking clear Biblical tenants, church splits and behavior that would make unbelievers blush.

Modern Christianity kind of paints a picture that once you are surrounded by other Christians, things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God. That is completely false and this dark side is not discussed because it would turn off those "seekers" or unbelievers as they would clearly see hypocrisy. If the saved Christian church is no different than the unsaved sector of society, then it offers nothing different than secular society.

If we are honest, then we should put out a disclaimer in the churches. Something like this should be in the doctrinal statement after all the major tenants of the faith are posted:

Having stated the above doctrinal positions, we want to clearly state that there are times when true believers and followers of the Christian faith will do things that will grieve and shock you, sin and dishonor God, His Word and even hurt other Christians in that process. This is part of the free will that God gives believers. Even though they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, believers will at times hurt you and sin against you and God. These incidents will really hurt you and rock you to the core as one believes that a Christian shouldn't act that way, which they shouldn't, but can and will act that way. Pastors will sin, wives & husbands will deceive & sin, brothers and sisters in Christ will lie, dishonor, sin and hurt you.

It is important to understand this facet of the Christian faith. To enter into the Christian faith thinking that other Christians can't or will not do such things is only setting up yourself for disappointment and shock. That might, in effect, make your faith stumble. So it is best that we as a church make this disclaimer that Christians can and will do these things. It is a sad but factual truth of the human being, even when indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that they will do these things. So it is best to be prepared when those incidents occur that it is not the Christian faith that failed, but that person who failed. They failed to follow God and His Word. Christians will disappoint you, sin against you and hurt you, please be prepared that this can and most likely will occur in your lifelong journey as a Christian.

 

There is non perfect and not all who say Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom. but we are not the judge. You will not find a church that there are falsehoods and those of poor example. Don't hold onto others misgiving , instead try praying for them. Who are you going to church for, them or you ? You might try reading Psalm 139.  This walk is more personal than congregational.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, MyLordsServant said:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

Like you said, some Christians like making excuses for these people.

I wouldn't call it a dark side of Christianity, because there is no dark side. What darkness is there, in a relationship between you and Jesus?

It's rather a dark side of human nature, influenced by this demon infested world.

I know you will understand what I say.     Have you noticed , in this generation ,  that most wont call a spade a spade .

YOU SPOT ON.  THEIR is no dark side to christanity.    IF people behave like the world,   DONT MAKE THEM SAVED , cause they in church.

nope .   The early church had no problems with warning and so called JUDGING .  we supposed to judge those within.   SUPPOPSED TO.

GOD judges those without .    I mean most christains cant discern that .    Paul warned the church.   most today just say don't judge

and we cant know their heart .  WRONG answer.   Get me in a room with a person and it don't take long at all to discern

what tree they are of.     Their fruits expose them.    And  I know the difference easy between one who is simply n error and needs correction

verus those WHO FLAT OUT DONT KNOW HIM.   its easy to discern the tree by its fruits.    Sigmund freud says we cant ,  JESUS said WE WOULD know the tree by its fruits.

And anyone who walks willfully in sin.  DOES NOT KNOW HIM .   don't matter if they can sing like davidand put on the best show in the world .

[simplejeff]

24 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And anyone who walks willfully in sin.  DOES NOT KNOW HIM .   don't matter if they can sing like davidand put on the best show in the world .

Yet sin is "protected", due to shame,  ashamedness, pride and guilt amongst leaders who sin continually every day.

So they can't dare allow sin to be called out  - they are guilty, as guilty as the unregenerate or worse for claiming they are something they are not,

and forbidding to state the truth about what they are, and those they 'protect' in sin and in sinfulness... every day.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

Yet sin is "protected", due to shame,  ashamedness, pride and guilt amongst leaders who sin continually every day.

So they can't dare allow sin to be called out  - they are guilty, as guilty as the unregenerate or worse for claiming they are something they are not,

and forbidding to state the truth about what they are, and those they 'protect' in sin and in sinfulness... every day.

Then what paul and peter both said makes perfect sense.

beguiling unstable souls , that CANNOT cease from sin

and not only do they do the same , they have pleasure in them.

Its easy for lots of folks who have a pet sin to sit under those who teach DONT JUDGE we all sinners. 

In fact I have watched folks in a pet sin,   thinking or SAYING , well at least I am not doing the sin that other person does

As though comparing what they deem as the lesser sin as somehow being better off than the other .  NOPE , SIN is SIN.

and it must be dealt with and eradicated from the life of the one in error.    

So many have sat under this gray mentality , like it aint all black and white.   SORRY IT IS .  SIN IS SIN.  and must be dealt with.

God sure did not seem to see error in a gray lense when he told the churches all the good they were doing

yet , in  their one  error,  it was REPENT OR ELSE.    HOW COME that GOD aint preached no more .   I mean did the churches suddenly become SIN FREE

 these days .   Is everyone just walking perfect THESE DAYS.     THEN WHERE ON EARTH are the grave men .    Cause when the early church

had errors.............all writers of the new test , WERE GRAVE. and I notice the GOD of the bible is Grave , for he desires none to perish

and I notice the prophets were grave and warned REPENT

I noticed CHRIST was grave and warned repent.

BUT what I don't NOTICE is any serious or grave men in most churches today.     WHAT..............did GOD CHANGE.  NOPE , them leaders changed his image to suit sin.

[Devarim]

Like Cain, they make up their own religion.