Unfruitful Christians

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

nobody is so full of praises and zeal as the newly born......though even that gets quenched and buried in most places.

This is very, very true. And it is no wonder that those who read Scripture and are taught by the Lord Himself are the ones who goes around like @frienduff thaylorde speaking the truth in love, with boldness, being lead by the Lord.

"All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children." - Isaiah 54:13

 

It really seems the enemy is trying to quench the body, tolerating unchristian behaviors and such. But the warning of the Lord is simple and clear.

"Do not quench the Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 5:19

"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing" - 1 Thessalonians 5:16-17

 

Yes, that is to be taken literally, literally! I repeat: literally.

"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”" - Matthew 19:26

 

Glory to God! Amen.

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, Heleadethme said:

oh sorry frienduff, I did it again.....think I accidentally quoted you where you had quoted One Light.  I don't know how to fix it...if anyone else can, hope they will feel free to do , with my thanks.

Sister you loved.   It happens.     Just forward march in the Lord.   souls to be both warned and encouraged as we edify one another in the Lord.

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

This is very, very true. And it is no wonder that those who read Scripture and are taught by the Lord Himself are the ones who goes around like @frienduff thaylorde speaking the truth in love, with boldness, being lead by the Lord.

"All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children." - Isaiah 54:13

 

It really seems the enemy is trying to quench the body, tolerating unchristian behaviors and such. But the warning of the Lord is simple and clear.

"Do not quench the Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 5:19

"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing" - 1 Thessalonians 5:16-17

 

Yes, that is to be taken literally, literally! I repeat: literally.

"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”" - Matthew 19:26

 

Glory to God! Amen.

And none of us who loves the Lord will stop till the last breath flows out our bodies.    For years the false prophets have destroyed much

and for years they have swelled the places up.     They don't take no time off with their falsehoods and agendas,  WE DONT TAKE NO TIME OFF exposing their wicked fruits either

and warning all to have no part of that .     Onward, onward n the Lord.   In time it will be illegal as laws keep changing .   

Evil laws WONT STOP TRUTH from getting spread.   One dies and two more will rise up and take they place.   Persuction don't destroy the church

and as we flee from place to place , the gospel will flee with us and be told .   Reminders of being HOLY as HE is HOLY will continue.   Whether or not

govts allow it .    They aint going to be able to get rid of the entire church .    It wont happen.   nope.    STILL their will be a remnant at the end still alive

when JESUS does return, though many will have been killed.    I say THE WILL OF THE LORD be done , and all I ask and pray for IS that I be faithful TO HE alone

no matter what , even if it costs us all.   ONWARD peoples , onward in the LORD. 

[MorningGlory]

16 hours ago, OneLight said:

They have to learn this.  Why do you think Jesus said to make disciples if new believers knew automatically how to become mature by themselves, without teachers?

Many come and go for a really good reason, as you say ... they see no reason to stick around.  They probably feel left out as thread after thread is full of demeaning people, lacking any form of edification. 

I have talked to a few of those people and, almost to a person, they feel picked on by other believers.  Unfortunately, not one of them comes to this site anymore.

[OneLight]

59 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

I am talking about carnal knowledge of the scriptures apart from the Holy Spirit.....pointing out that it is only in Him, in Christ, that we can even profit from knowledge.  It is not in the knowledge itself.

Amen, it is all in scripture, yes, I have nothing that I didn't receive, all praise be to God.

He also brought to my remembrance about the ministry of the new covenant being given to all the church, and about the priesthood of all believers, and that He has given spiritual gifts to all His people that the whole church be edified.......and how much he hates the antichrist form of Christianity that we have made it.

New believers come much better equipped by the Lord than most realize......it is only because of the gobbledy-gook and false system that most start to sit under right away that it all gets buried alive instead of being fostered and exercised.  Even when I was first saved I was already discerning and correcting errors of the churches I attended in my heart, but not having any boldness or assurance in those early years......and it was not of my own but what God had put in me, knowledge of Him, knowledge of some truth, spiritual gift,and I'm sure many must have similar testimonies.  He has even ordained praises from the mouths of babes......nobody is so full of praises and zeal as the newly born......though even that gets quenched and buried in most places.

Still these things are all in God's sovereign hands, like I said elsewhere, it's as though He makes it impossible, makes the altar soaking wet as if to dare the devil to try and quench His fire.........it is all the more GLORY TO THE LORD when His fire is able to burn and keep alive......victory is that much sweeter when it is hard won.

I agree, and the reason why all of the truth needs to be spoken from those who are His and given a ministry in Him, not just warnings filled with blanket statements, which is what I have been trying to get across all along.  You see, even on this site, we can also partake in quenching His Spirit by excluding all the truth and giving just partial messages.  Even though the young grow, they will always need someone to help them along the way.  We are to also understand that those who are mature in him, when giving a message.

The only statement I would question in the above is found at the end of the fourth line.  I do not believe we have made the churches today that are bringing forth false teaching.  We may of turned from the church in search of another, but the making of a false church is due to the church leaders, those who are placed in charge of the body itself.  I have left a few churches myself due to false teaching, but by my leaving, I don't feel responsible for their wayward ways.  I spoke the truth and it was denied.  I then shook the dust off and moved on.

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Nobody here is putting the true gospel under the same blanket with the false ones, just that unfortunately the strong delusion constitutes the majority of the church and is still spreading.  Some are just trying to shine a light and give a head's up to this plague......and anyone is free to seek the Lord and do their own due diligence regarding how to distinguish between sound doctrine and false. But we need to be willing to look at scripture with fresh eyes, not through a lens of what we have been taught in churches.....but rather let Christ through the scriptures correct any deceptions we have imbibed.  If we belong to Him, if we are sincere in our faith, if we live in obedience to Him.........He will answer and lead and guide us.

What did God say about Israel.......that though the number of the Israelites be as the sand on the seashore only a remnant will be saved.....and since Israel is our ensample.....the same is true of Christendom, and really always has been in every generation.  That is a very uncomfortable thought.....and I believe it is meant to be.....so that we will seek Him diligently.....so that we will run the race so as to win it.

Yes I said this, and the reason why is that a blanket statement was being used.  The term "churches" and "today's churches" and "churches of the western world" have been used all too often on this site in many threads as a blanket statement.  The truth is, it is not all churches or all of today's churches or all the churches in the western world, but specific churches under specific preachers.  Unless specific, instead of general blanket statements, are used, the author is grouping them together for the reader.  That is a fact.   The author may know what they are talking about, but that may not be what the reader, who has no knowledge of what is in the mind of the author, is taking from it.  People are not mind readers and can only go by the words written.

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

I have talked to a few of those people and, almost to a person, they feel picked on by other believers.  Unfortunately, not one of them comes to this site anymore.

SISTER you know I love you.    But we cant pander our speech to accommodate the heart of the unrepentant ones in hopes they stay.

That leavens the whole lump.  WE just are to speak truth in love and yes be grave too,  whomever receives it amen.   But most wont .

The message cant be changed to make those who have NO INTENTON of repenting even when warned, to make those feel better or want to stay.

SEEKER friendly did that , and look at those churches now ,  I don't see saved gays n them,   I SEE gays FEELNG SAVED and feeling what THEY THINK is love

as with other sins.  NO conviction , thus no repentance , and worse the church gets tempted , sees what IT THINKS is genuine , and falls away .

WE don't feed half goat chow with a touch of sheep chow to keep the people , nope that ends with a house of Goats only.

Preach grade a LAMBS chow ,  yes some will leave, but those who remain WILL GROW and mature and have senses to discern between good and evil

and those will win more souls.    JESUS did not speak to please men and we cant either.    By all means OF course many will get offended at truth .

JESUS IS the ROCK OF OFFENSE to those who be disobedient , and a stone of stumbling .    Changing our words to focus on Feelings wont save a soul

it will only cause leaven to rise faster.

[OneLight]

5 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

I have talked to a few of those people and, almost to a person, they feel picked on by other believers.  Unfortunately, not one of them comes to this site anymore.

Sad, isn't it!  Some threads are so full of pride and arrogance it's like a bunch of adults sitting around the supper table, discussing and arguing about the day, forgetting to feed the baby as they make their points.  Fortunatly, those babies who come here leave before they die of starvation.

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

This is very, very true. And it is no wonder that those who read Scripture and are taught by the Lord Himself are the ones who goes around like @frienduff thaylorde speaking the truth in love, with boldness, being lead by the Lord.

"All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children." - Isaiah 54:13

 

It really seems the enemy is trying to quench the body, tolerating unchristian behaviors and such. But the warning of the Lord is simple and clear.

"Do not quench the Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 5:19

"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing" - 1 Thessalonians 5:16-17

 

Yes, that is to be taken literally, literally! I repeat: literally.

"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”" - Matthew 19:26

 

Glory to God! Amen.

I'm not sure but I might have missed some of what you mean, if it has to do with something specific.... don't get around to as many threads as a lot of other folks....but yes there are unfortunately some really unpleasant attitudes at times and many conversations that might have been fruitful have been broken up and derailed, if not having to be removed altogether just due to behaviour.  Ought not to be.

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

I agree, and the reason why all of the truth needs to be spoken from those who are His and given a ministry in Him, not just warnings filled with blanket statements, which is what I have been trying to get across all along.  You see, even on this site, we can also partake in quenching His Spirit by excluding all the truth and giving just partial messages.  Even though the young grow, they will always need someone to help them along the way.  We are to also understand that those who are mature in him, when giving a message.

The only statement I would question in the above is found at the end of the fourth line.  I do not believe we have made the churches today that are bringing forth false teaching.  We may of turned from the church in search of another, but the making of a false church is due to the church leaders, those who are placed in charge of the body itself.  I have left a few churches myself due to false teaching, but by my leaving, I don't feel responsible for their wayward ways.  I spoke the truth and it was denied.  I then shook the dust off and moved on.

Yes I said this, and the reason why is that a blanket statement was being used.  The term "churches" and "today's churches" and "churches of the western world" have been used all too often on this site in many threads as a blanket statement.  The truth is, it is not all churches or all of today's churches or all the churches in the western world, but specific churches under specific preachers.  Unless specific, instead of general blanket statements, are used, the author is grouping them together for the reader.  That is a fact.   The author may know what they are talking about, but that may not be what the reader, who has no knowledge of what is in the mind of the author, is taking from it.  People are not mind readers and can only go by the words written.

It occurs to me that I should be more clear.......it came to me that the Lord likens the present end time church to Egypt and to Sodom and to Jerusalem........Egypt receiving her plagues of judgment and the Lord protecting and leading His flock out of Egypt into the wilderness.  Sodom receiving of her judgment and the Lord leading the righteous out of Sodom to the mountains.  Jesus prophesying, when you see "Jerusalem" surrounded by armies, ie, about to be judged, flee to the mountains.  Also Jesus prophesying about the destruction of the "temple" that not one stone would be left on top of another.  So when I am talking in these terms about the church..........i am talking about the church in general particularly in North America, except for a remnant.  We need to understand that the church is being judged.......with a strong delusion...... yes, the whole church in general.....except for a remnant.  Just like Israel and Jerusalem was judged by the Lord except for the remnant Jews who "fled to take hold", ie, who came to faith in Jesus.  The Lord hasn't supplied me with a list of all the erring churches in North America and the western world and of course no one can share what they haven't received.  Think that's about all I can say about that, hope you understand better why I do speak in sweeping generalities about the church.  I think frienduff thayLord mentioned that he would be compiling some more specifics to post for you, hope you find that helpful as well.

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

It occurs to me that I should be more clear.......it came to me that the Lord likens the present end time church to Egypt and to Sodom and to Jerusalem........Egypt receiving her plagues of judgment and the Lord protecting and leading His flock out of Egypt into the wilderness.  Sodom receiving of her judgment and the Lord leading the righteous out of Sodom to the mountains.  Jesus prophesying, when you see "Jerusalem" surrounded by armies, ie, about to be judged, flee to the mountains.  Also Jesus prophesying about the destruction of the "temple" that not one stone would be left on top of another.  So when I am talking in these terms about the church..........i am talking about the church in general particularly in North America, except for a remnant.  We need to understand that the church is being judged.......with a strong delusion...... yes, the whole church in general.....except for a remnant.  Just like Israel and Jerusalem was judged by the Lord except for the remnant Jews who "fled to take hold", ie, who came to faith in Jesus.  The Lord hasn't supplied me with a list of all the erring churches in North America and the western world and of course no one can share what they haven't received.  Think that's about all I can say about that, hope you understand better why I do speak in sweeping generalities about the church.  I think frienduff thayLord mentioned that he would be compiling some more specifics to post for you, hope you find that helpful as well.

Have you considered this?  Salvation and truth is for the individual.  Each of us has to make a decision to accept the truth or reject the truth.  The strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2 is for the individual, the individual who has not received the truth.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?  And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.  The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,  comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

This warning is about the individual.  The individual, when gathered with believers, is the body of Christ and called the church.  To place what is meant for an individual onto a body is incorrect and mishandling the message.  You notice that this warning is not stated for a body of believers, but for anyone who rejected the truth, the individual.  "Them" are those who reject the truth.   Those who reject the truth may be found in every collective body of Christ.  Though you may address the whole body with the message for all to hear, the condemnation that comes as a delusion is to the individual, the ones who reject the truth, not the whole body.  Claiming the "whole church in general.....except for a remnant" will receive the delusion is incorrect. 

Let's make this simple.  Let's say there are 10 churches.  Within each church are 10 members.  In one church, 1 member rejects the truth.  In another 2, the next 3, then 4 and so on until you do have the last church where all 10 reject the truth and are following a false doctrine not from God.  How then can you condemn the church when it is the individuals themselves who are receiving the delusion?

I also want to add that when you read the scripture provided. those who follow the delusion are the lost, those who have not been saved.  Yes, they are currently found within the numbers of the church, which is why the church will see a falling away.  As His time draws near, those who have yet not received the truth onto salvation will be leaving the church numbers to follow a lie.  It is not the church itself, but those within the numbers that reject Christ.  The church is His true believers.  There can be none other counted in the number of believers but believers.  Today, you will find tares among the wheat.  Soon, the tares will scatter and what is left is only the wheat.