Will there be a per-trib rapture

[Last Daze]

18 minutes ago, OneLight said:

That's impossible.  How can this be all in one day?  Why would the locus on the 6th Trumpet torment those who do not have the seal of God on their forehead for 5 months if it is all to happen in one day?  Each scroll is separate from the trumpets. Each trumpet is separate from the bowls, Each bowl stands alone.  There are similarities, but they are not the same.

Remembering why I don't post here much.

Revelation 15 confirms that there are seven plagues.  Not 14.  Not 21.  Only 7.  The last three of the plagues are called "woes".

 

[OneLight]

3 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Revelation 15 confirms that there are seven plagues.  Not 14.  Not 21.  Only 7.  The last three of the plagues are called "woes".

 

The seven plague are what is in the seven bowls.  They have nothing to do wiht the scrolls or trumpets.

[Last Daze]

20 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The seven plague are what is in the seven bowls.  They have nothing to do wiht the scrolls or trumpets.

Look a little closer:

• And the seven angels who had the seven plagues came out of the temple, clothed in linen, clean and bright, and girded around their chests with golden sashes.  Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.  Revelation15:6-7

The seven angels who had the seven plagues were given the seven bowls.  If the seven plagues are the seven bowls, then how did those angels already have them before they were given to them?

[OneLight]

4 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Look a little closer:

• And the seven angels who had the seven plagues came out of the temple, clothed in linen, clean and bright, and girded around their chests with golden sashes.  Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.  Revelation15:6-7

The seven angels who had the seven plagues were given the seven bowls.  If the seven plagues are the seven bowls, then how did those angels already have them before they were given to them?

I have always understood that the plagues are the wrath of God which is poured out over the earth. Tell me, what is the difference between the 7 plagues and the wrath of God in the 7 bowls?

[Unfailing Presence]

9 hours ago, brakelite said:

22 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

 

Secondly " Noah and his family "   being lifted   "ABOVE  THE EARTH " , and separated by God Himself  were not  " witnesses" to anything  on the earth .

They saw nothing . 

God sealed them away from the earth and any view of it until Forty days had been completed :

                                                     

                                                                 " ....at the END of forty days , that Noah OPENED THE WINDOW of the ark ..."   ( Genesis 8 : 6 ) 

 

The ark being completely sealed by the hand of God for 40 days  to any witnessing of judgement or  of anything else . 

So says the Word of God . 

 

Once again we have the very familiar  scenario of the  post-trib crowd running headlong in the solid  rock wall of God's Word in their purposelessness , while the pre-trib 

position is in complete prophetic concord with the Word of this Jesus who is the Christ .

 

 

 

 

                                                                               

Okay, so if you want the "as in the days of Noah" to be taken literally

It is Jesus  who confronts us with His divine Omnipotent  knowledge of " literal "  world conditions in days past , present & future .

My wants , or your wants notwithstanding  . 

Yet more of Jesus's Word that must be jettisoned in pursuit of post-trib purposelessness , while the pre-trib positon resides happily within the Word of God .

 

 

                                                              " But of that day and hour knoweth no man .....but as the days of Noe were so shall also the                                                                                                                                                         coming of the Son of man be ....they were eating , and drinking , marrying and giving in marriage                                                                                                                                            until the day that Noe entered into the ark . "     (  Matthew 24 : 36-38 ) 

 

[Keras]

4 hours ago, OneLight said:

I believe I have asked your before, but never received a reply, or I was never notified that you responded to my question.

What do you make of 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, since you say there will be no rapture?

As for Hebrews 12:5-11, those who are His are being disciplined through His chastening and rebuke.  Why do you associate this to the time of the tribulation?

1 Thess 4:15-17 is about the glorious Return of Jesus, when He come down from heaven and gathers His own. Matthew 24:30-31  This gathering will be like what happened to Philip, Acts 8:39; a transportation from our earthly place at that time; to Jerusalem.  We never go to heaven; Jesus said that was impossible. John 3:13

1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the Great White Throne Judgement, at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15   Proved by how it is only then that Death is no more, the Book of Life is opened then and all whose names are Written in it will receive immortality. Not before that!

Hebrews 12:5-11, can be applied to our present trials, but for most of us in the Western nations, these 'trials' don't amount to any great hardship. The real trial and testing will come with the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. 1 Peter 4:12  Which is the next prophesied event we can expect. Revelation 6:12-17

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

No, there will not be a pre-tribulation rapture removal to heaven of anyone. 

This idea is never stated in the Bible, what we are told to do is to stand firm in our faith, trusting in the Lord for His protection and to endure until the end. 

Two prophesies make it plain that the Lord's holy people are present on earth during the time the Anti-Christ has world control. Daniel 7:23-25 and Revelation 13:5-8    

People who like to believe in a 'rapture', should take careful note of Hebrews 12:5-12   We must face discipline and testing...If you escape the discipline in which all the children of God must share, then you are illegitimate and not a true child of God. 

Let me ask you this? Do you consider the tribulation a time of God's wrath, as never before seen in the world?

[Sister]

19 hours ago, Sister said:

End time prophecy warning to all end time saints;

 Revelation 13:15   And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

  Revelation 13:16   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

  Revelation 13:17   And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 

 

  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

 Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 

Isn't that clear?  Whoever worships the beast or his image, and receives his Mark, Christian or non Christian will receive God's wrath.

.....and to clarify even further;

  Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Does it appear that the saints won't be here? 

Why would we want to be punished with the ungodly? 

 

Why are these scriptures being ignored?

and why is the word of God not settling this dispute?

This is the great tribulation of the end time saints.  Read, read, read, read. 

Is it fair that Christ allows Zion to be contaminated forever and the world to keep going as it is? 

After my initial shock when realising this, I realised that this plan of God is so wonderful, and brilliantly orchestrated.  He is the mastermind of this whole event.  I am talking about the Mark of the Beast and the coming tribulation of the saints.

God's own house on earth has to be cleaned out first, and divisions made.  The goats will be put to the left and the sheep to the right.  Whoever stays with the world will go into delusion and be punished with the world, ...this is why God is calling all his people to come out of Babylon,...because many are still in her.  Luke warm.

It doesn't matter how much we claim to love the Lord, having the holy spirit, or claim more wisdom than others, because it's the end of our journey that really counts. God is doing this to weed out the goats, not the sheep. 

The goats will part and their hearts will be manifest, that they did not truly belong with Christ,..because their actions will be anti-Christ. ... joined as one with those who trample the truth. All their good words, and prayers, and   hymns,  and good deeds, and preachings have been in vain for the tree has bared no fruit. 

So until then, we don't judge anyone, because it is going to be a matter of faith that will stand this test, and those that keep the faith until death are Christ's, chosen from the beginning. These are his sheep he will give the crown of life to.

 

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

I have always understood that the plagues are the wrath of God which is poured out over the earth. Tell me, what is the difference between the 7 plagues and the wrath of God in the 7 bowls?

The seven trumpets begin the seven plagues.  The seven bowls bring the seven plagues to their fullness or completion. 

[Keras]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Let me ask you this? Do you consider the tribulation a time of God's wrath, as never before seen in the world?

What we generally refer to as the Great Tribulation, is the Seven Trumpets and the Seven Bowls [or Plagues] and with them the wrath of God is completed. Revelation 15:1  The G.T. will happen in the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. Daniel 7:25    It is the same period as the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 and the 1260 days of Revelation 11:2 and 12:6.

But the great ordeal, [REBible, other trans say 'tribulation', of Revelation 7:13] refers to the Lord's terrible Day of vengeance and wrath; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, an event several years before the actual GT kicks in.  Proved by the Seventh Seal time gap that must pass before Jesus Returns. [About a half hour in heaven equals about 20 years earth time. Revelation 8:1]