Jump to content
Brother Duke

Revelation and the Study of Woe

Recommended Posts

29 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

You have made the connection of an earthquake with a resurrection.   So why are you missing the one in Rev 8:4,5?

If I may interject here.  The earth quake in 8:4 is not listed as a great earth quake like it is everywhere else.  All the resurrection verses are associated with a great earth quake.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

We have several points of disagreement.  I don't like getting strung out trying to discuss several points at a time. Let's narrow this down to a smaller point of discussion.   Lets talk about the sun and moon darkening. 

You have only identified,  but 2 of three such events.   Here is the "third" [lol] 

*[[Rev 8:12]] KJV* And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Let's talk about the one in Joel 2:10 [you left off verse 11, that I presented,  claiming a different timing].  They are: 

*[[Joe 2:10]] KJV* The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

*[[Joe 2:11]] KJV* And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Verse 11, hence verse 10, I showed the connection with Joel 3, Amos 1, Jeremiah 25, Hebrews 12 AND Rev 6's sixth seal.   I would like you to explain why you believe these are not the same event.   The shaking of the heavens and earth are mentioned several places in the O.T.  Joel 2:10,11 connects these two events together,  [darkness and God's voice].  Yet you have placed it at the time of Armageddon.  

You have made the connection of an earthquake with a resurrection.   So why are you missing the one in Rev 8:4,5?  2 Thess 1:7-10 makes the connection of our glorification with Christ,  AND our vengeance upon our persecutors.   Surely that involves the prayers of tree saints,  found in Rev 8:4.

If you wish to discuss only the first issue, about darkness,  that is okay. 

Blessings

The PuP 

The 4th trumpet is a judgment, not a sign.  But you are right, it does affect both the sun and moon. In many of the Old testament end times scriptures, it is very hard to nail down timing. Thankfully, in 2:31 Joel gives us timing.  Scriptures show us that the Day of the Lord is NOT just a 24 hour period, but a long, extended period of time that includes the 70th week, and some believe includes the millennial reign of Christ.  So a verse that mentions the Day of the Lord really does not pinpoint its timing. It could be before the 70th week, during the 70th week or after the 70th week.

Verse 11, hence verse 10, I showed the connection with Joel 3, Amos 1, Jeremiah 25, Hebrews 12 AND Rev 6's sixth seal.  You showed this, but I don't think Rev. 6 fits in this list. The signs are different, and the timing is different. When we find a verse that is weak on timing, and another verse that gives us timing of a similar event, we learn timing for the verse that tells us the timing, such as Joel 2:31. In verses 10 and 11 we learn about an army, but we don't know exactly when in these verses.  When I read "the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining" I cannot align that verse with the moon turning red. A red moon is visible, yet Jesus told us both the sun and moon would be dark. The moon only reflects the sun's light, so if the sun is dark, the moon is invisible.  It is VERY clear that the moon turning read is the sign for the coming Day of the Lord. John shows us very clearly that this sign happens at the 6th seal, NOT AFTER the GT. 

So by timing alone I know there must be two times signs including the sun and moon will be shone. Then I know by discription there must be two separate signs, one when the moon is visible and red, and another when the moon cannot be seen, due to darkness.

When there is a resurrection of those dead a long time, there will always be an earthquake. But all earthquakes do not mean a resurrection took place. There is no resurrection in 8:4. It is an earthquake, plain and simple. 

WHEN is 2 Thess 1:7-10? It is speaking of His coming as shown in Rev. 19, NOT His coming as shown in 1 thes. 4. The prayers of the saints in 8:4 perhaps even include our prayers of today. They are prayers offered BEFORE the 70th week begins.  We can be sure a lot more prayers will be prayed during the 70th week!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I count the number of times Woe is mentioned in each sentence but also I link it to Rev 9:1 where a star falls to earth and releases the bottomless pit. Rev 9:1 is in the first Woe.

Notice Rev 18:10 Alas is the same word as woe in Greek but it is called twice in Rev 18:10, Rev 18:16 and Rev 18:19 in addition as is fallen in Rev 14:8.  I make this out to be the 2nd woe when Babylon falls.  It is always called twice.

Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas(WOE), alas(WOE), that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas(WOE), alas(WOE), that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 

Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas(WOE), alas(WOE), that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

The three woes are identified:

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The three woes are identified:

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

That is when the woe's start.  You will see the woe markers through out revelations in different chapters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

That is when the woe's start.  You will see the woe markers through out revelations in different chapters.

You are mistaken: the first woe will be the 5th trumpet judgment. It will be the little flying and stinging beasties. Then the first woe is over. The second woe is the 6th trumpet judgment: and after the 1/3 of the population is killed, that woe is over. The 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet, which ends the reign of Satan as god of this world, and gives the kingdoms to the rightful owner, Jesus Christ. That in itself is not a woe, but a blessing. But Satan being cast down to earth, full if wrath - what he will do will be woe to those that love God. Then the 7th trumpet will lead to the 7 vials of God's wrath, and that will be woe to those with the mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2018 at 3:09 PM, iamlamad said:

The 4th trumpet is a judgment, not a sign.  But you are right, it does affect both the sun and moon. In many of the Old testament end times scriptures, it is very hard to nail down timing. Thankfully, in 2:31 Joel gives us timing.  Scriptures show us that the Day of the Lord is NOT just a 24 hour period, but a long, extended period of time that includes the 70th week, and some believe includes the millennial reign of Christ.  So a verse that mentions the Day of the Lord really does not pinpoint its timing. It could be before the 70th week, during the 70th week or after the 70th week.

Verse 11, hence verse 10, I showed the connection with Joel 3, Amos 1, Jeremiah 25, Hebrews 12 AND Rev 6's sixth seal.  You showed this, but I don't think Rev. 6 fits in this list. The signs are different, and the timing is different. When we find a verse that is weak on timing, and another verse that gives us timing of a similar event, we learn timing for the verse that tells us the timing, such as Joel 2:31. In verses 10 and 11 we learn about an army, but we don't know exactly when in these verses.  When I read "the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining" I cannot align that verse with the moon turning red. A red moon is visible, yet Jesus told us both the sun and moon would be dark. The moon only reflects the sun's light, so if the sun is dark, the moon is invisible.  It is VERY clear that the moon turning read is the sign for the coming Day of the Lord. John shows us very clearly that this sign happens at the 6th seal, NOT AFTER the GT. 

So by timing alone I know there must be two times signs including the sun and moon will be shone. Then I know by discription there must be two separate signs, one when the moon is visible and red, and another when the moon cannot be seen, due to darkness.

When there is a resurrection of those dead a long time, there will always be an earthquake. But all earthquakes do not mean a resurrection took place. There is no resurrection in 8:4. It is an earthquake, plain and simple. 

WHEN is 2 Thess 1:7-10? It is speaking of His coming as shown in Rev. 19, NOT His coming as shown in 1 thes. 4. The prayers of the saints in 8:4 perhaps even include our prayers of today. They are prayers offered BEFORE the 70th week begins.  We can be sure a lot more prayers will be prayed during the 70th week!

 

Let me give you some connecting scriptures to show that opening of the 6th seal is when God will shake the heavens & the earth for one final time. 

*[[Isa 2:10]] KJV* Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the *[*glory of his majesty*]*.    *11* The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted IN THAT DAY.*12* For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:...

*[[Isa 2:17]] KJV* And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted IN THAT DAY .*18* And the idols he shall utterly abolish.*[[Isa 2:19]] KJV* And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the *[*glory of his majesty*]*, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

*[[Rev 6:14]] KJV* And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.*15* And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

*[[Isa 34:2]] KJV* For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.*3* Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.*4* And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree...

*[[Isa 34:8]] KJV* For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

*[[Luk 17:29]] KJV* But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. *30* Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

*[[Luk 21:20]] KJV* And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.*21* Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.*22* For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

*[[Jer 25:29]] KJV* For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.*[[Jer 25:30]] KJV* Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.*31* A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.*32* Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.*33* And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

*[[Amo 1:2]] KJV* And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.

*[[Joe 2:10]] KJV* The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:*11* And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

*[[Heb 12:26]] KJV* Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.*27* And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.*28* Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Hopefully,  all these verses will help you connect the shaking of the heavens & earth with the voice of God AND with judgment upon Jerusalem AND with Joel 2:10,11, when the moon shall be turned into blood and the sun into darkness;  all of this with the opening of the 6th seal, AND with the days of vengeance and the revelation/ apocalypse of Jesus.   

There is only one apocalypse of Jesus (his revealing)  that brings "rest to the saints" and vengeance upon those "that know not God".

*[[2Th 1:4]] KJV* So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:*5* Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:*6* Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;*7* And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,*8* In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:*9* Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

*10* When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The rapture brings: 

1. His revelation from heaven,

2. Our rest, from our enemies,

3. Vengeance upon the world.   Of course,  the world will then consist primarily of the wicked,  with the exception of the elect of Israel. 

Blessings,  

The PuP 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2018 at 11:29 PM, Da Puppers said:

Let me give you some connecting scriptures to show that opening of the 6th seal is when God will shake the heavens & the earth for one final time. 

*[[Isa 2:10]] KJV* Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the *[*glory of his majesty*]*.    *11* The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted IN THAT DAY.*12* For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:...

*[[Isa 2:17]] KJV* And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted IN THAT DAY .*18* And the idols he shall utterly abolish.*[[Isa 2:19]] KJV* And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the *[*glory of his majesty*]*, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

It is like John quoted Isaiah almost word for word!

*[[Rev 6:14]] KJV* And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.*15* And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

*[[Isa 34:2]] KJV* For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.*3* Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.*4* And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree...

*[[Isa 34:8]] KJV* For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

*[[Luk 17:29]] KJV* But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. *30* Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

*[[Luk 21:20]] KJV* And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.*21* Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.*22* For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

*[[Jer 25:29]] KJV* For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.*[[Jer 25:30]] KJV* Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.*31* A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.*32* Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.*33* And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

*[[Amo 1:2]] KJV* And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.

*[[Joe 2:10]] KJV* The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:*11* And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

*[[Heb 12:26]] KJV* Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.*27* And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.*28* Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Hopefully,  all these verses will help you connect the shaking of the heavens & earth with the voice of God AND with judgment upon Jerusalem AND with Joel 2:10,11, when the moon shall be turned into blood and the sun into darkness;  all of this with the opening of the 6th seal, AND with the days of vengeance and the revelation/ apocalypse of Jesus.   

There is only one apocalypse of Jesus (his revealing)  that brings "rest to the saints" and vengeance upon those "that know not God".

*[[2Th 1:4]] KJV* So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:*5* Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:*6* Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;*7* And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,*8* In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:*9* Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

*10* When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The rapture brings: 

1. His revelation from heaven,

2. Our rest, from our enemies,

3. Vengeance upon the world.   Of course,  the world will then consist primarily of the wicked,  with the exception of the elect of Israel. 

Blessings,  

The PuP 

 

 

 

Hopefully,  all these verses will help you connect the shaking of the heavens & earth with the voice of God AND with judgment upon Jerusalem AND with Joel 2:10,11, when the moon shall be turned into blood and the sun into darkness;  all of this with the opening of the 6th seal, AND with the days of vengeance and the revelation/ apocalypse of Jesus. 

Not sure what you are trying to prove. Of course there will be only one more "Day of the Lord." and John shows us it will begin at the opening of the 6th seal. However, John also shows us that there is a 7th seal that must be opened before the scroll or book can be opened to reveal the trumpet and vial judgments. In other words, the 6th seal is the BEGINNING of judgment upon the earth, not the end. John also shows us that Jesus REMAINS IN HEAVEN all during the trumpet judgments, and vial judgments and even remains in heaven after the 70th week has finished.  He does not return to earth for judgment (Armageddon) until after the week has finished and then until after the marriage and supper takes place in heaven. This  is what John has shown us. 

There is only one apocalypse of Jesus (his revealing)  that brings "rest to the saints" and vengeance upon those "that know not God".

We know that "every eye will see Him" but I don't think that fits His coming as shown in 1 Thes. 4. He remains hidden in a cloud and only those that are caught up will see Him.  By this I am convinced He will come TWO (2) more times. I disagree with this statement of yours. The rapture of the church will bring rest to the church, but His 3rd coming as shown in Rev. 19 will bring rest to the world, once His kingdom is set up, and the Jews and Hebrews are free from prosecution forever more. 

Sorry, I really don't know what you were trying to show us here. Whatever it was, I disagree. 

John has laid out exactly what is coming in our near future, in perfect chronological order. Why try to change what he and he Holy Spirit have given us? Do you believe Revelation as written?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Hopefully,  all these verses will help you connect the shaking of the heavens & earth with the voice of God AND with judgment upon Jerusalem AND with Joel 2:10,11, when the moon shall be turned into blood and the sun into darkness;  all of this with the opening of the 6th seal, AND with the days of vengeance and the revelation/ apocalypse of Jesus. 

Not sure what you are trying to prove. Of course there will be only one more "Day of the Lord." and John shows us it will begin at the opening of the 6th seal. However, John also shows us that there is a 7th seal that must be opened before the scroll or book can be opened to reveal the trumpet and vial judgments. In other words, the 6th seal is the BEGINNING of judgment upon the earth, not the end. John also shows us that Jesus REMAINS IN HEAVEN all during the trumpet judgments, and vial judgments and even remains in heaven after the 70th week has finished.  He does not return to earth for judgment (Armageddon) until after the week has finished and then until after the marriage and supper takes place in heaven. This  is what John has shown us. 

There is only one apocalypse of Jesus (his revealing)  that brings "rest to the saints" and vengeance upon those "that know not God".

We know that "every eye will see Him" but I don't think that fits His coming as shown in 1 Thes. 4. He remains hidden in a cloud and only those that are caught up will see Him.  By this I am convinced He will come TWO (2) more times. I disagree with this statement of yours. The rapture of the church will bring rest to the church, but His 3rd coming as shown in Rev. 19 will bring rest to the world, once His kingdom is set up, and the Jews and Hebrews are free from prosecution forever more. 

Sorry, I really don't know what you were trying to show us here. Whatever it was, I disagree. 

John has laid out exactly what is coming in our near future, in perfect chronological order. Why try to change what he and he Holy Spirit have given us? Do you believe Revelation as written?

 

When you say this: 

"Sorry, I really don't know what you were trying to show us here. Whatever it was, I disagree. "

That tells me that you have a doctrine built on fiction and not scripture.   And then say that I change the order of revelation.   How could you possibly believe that when you don't understand what I said?

I have no further comments. 

The PuP 

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

When you say this: 

"Sorry, I really don't know what you were trying to show us here. Whatever it was, I disagree. "

That tells me that you have a doctrine built on fiction and not scripture.   And then say that I change the order of revelation.   How could you possibly believe that when you don't understand what I said?

I have no further comments. 

The PuP 

Yeah, that was classic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

When you say this: 

"Sorry, I really don't know what you were trying to show us here. Whatever it was, I disagree. "

That tells me that you have a doctrine built on fiction and not scripture.   And then say that I change the order of revelation.   How could you possibly believe that when you don't understand what I said?

I have no further comments. 

The PuP 

No, not really. It means you disagree with my doctrine. And chances are probably much higher it is you who have it wrong. 

Anyone who links the 6th seal with the Matthew 24 signs in the sun and moon is rearranging Revelation to fit their theory. 

The truth is, the 6th seal comes before the 70th week begins, (it begins with the 7th seal) and the signs in the sun and moon in Matthew 24 will come just before Jesus comes as shown in Rev. 19. That Revelation 19 coming will be AT LEAST 7 plus years after His coming FOR His bride just before the 6th seal.  This is John's chronology. Do you believe it as written?

"Sorry, I really don't know what you were trying to show us here. Whatever it was, I disagree. "

Let me give an example:  What were you trying to prove with this verse?


[[Luk 17:29]] KJV* But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. *30* Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

If you were trying to tie this verse to the 6th seal, which I think you were, you are mistaken. This is speaking of His coming as shown in Rev.19, NOT His coming as written in 1 Thes. 4.  These are two different comings for two different purposes. 

Anyone can tie verses together is if they fit. Example:

 

Matthew 27:5
And he [Judas Iscariot] ..., went and hanged himself.

Luke 10:37
... Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

1 Thes 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Here are three verses put together as if to tell a story. Were they meant by the Author to be together? 

Edited by iamlamad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Omegaman 3.0
      Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times   Notice, that this list, does not establish any end times  theory, it tries to prove nothing. It does not even  attack a theory, or attempt to refute one.    What it does attempt to do, is to get people to ask  themselves, why they believe certain things, that the  Bible never says.   So basically, in between the lines I am asking:    If we believe certain things that are not stated in the scripture, and claim that we believe them because that is what scripture teaches, aren't we in principle adding to the words of scripture?   Furthermore, if we teach these things as though they are true, does that make us false teachers?   So, what things do I claim the Bible does not teach?  Following is a short list:   1. It does not say there will be a Rapture of the Church,  which occurs before the Great Tribulation.   2. It does not refer to a 7 year period as the Great Tribulation.   3. It does not say that the Holy Spirit is removed from the  Earth at any time during the Great Tribulation.   4. It does not refer to the Great Tribulation, as the wrath  of God.   5. It does not say that Jesus will return secretly or  invisibly to take His Church.   6. It does not say that no man will ever know the time (the day or hour) of His coming.
      7. It does not say that Jesus can return at any moment.   8. It does not say that Jesus will return like a thief in  the night for His church.   9. It does not say that believers will not be in the great  tribulation, or skip suffering and persecution, or even  death.   Now, am I wrong about anything on that list. If so, can you provide scripture citations that would make anything in the list a misstatement?   Thanks for your help!   P.S. Please try to stick to the actual topic, and provide us with the information which would show me to be in error, when I claim the bible does not express the ideas in the list. Also not, that in the thread that follows, other ideas that could be added to the list are these:   10. The Bible does not explicitly say the the Rapture is the Blessed Hope.   11. Jesus is not said to return as a thief in the night, in any context that necessitates a pre-tribulation return.   12. It is often said: The Rapture is Jesus coming for His church, the Second Coming is Jesus coming with His church. I think those definitions are workable, but the Bible does not say there is a multi-year interval between those events.   13. The Bible does not say, that there are 144,000 evangelists or witnesses, during the tribulation.   Helpful link to common verses applied to this topic
    • By listener24
      "knock and the door will be opened to you." Imagine this unprecedented event. Christians, from all over the world, united physically in congregations, united virtually through technology, united spiritually in the Holy Ghost, praying together with a clear, unified intention: shortening, hastening the Return of the Lord (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:5-13, Luke 18:1-8) Wouldn’t the Lord be quick, in fulfilling their holy prayer? “[…] And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” This is not happening yet, but we can make it happen. SUMMARY (You can freely download the pdf) 1 - Brief history of the Church 2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans 3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer 4 – The Last Day 5 – While in the world 6 – Warnings 7 – Avoid misconceptions 8 – An unprecedented event 9 – SOURCES 1 - Brief history of the Church Along the history, many spiritual leaders did not listen to (Matthew 23:9-10) “And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.” Therefore, it comes as no surprise that many false teachings did spread for centuries. Nor it is a surprise that true Christians come to a better understanding of some concepts through centuries, because luckily some of them are able to get rid of the false teachings they have received. Indeed, luckily some listened to Matthew 23:9-10. Moreover, Jesus said (John 16:12): ”I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.” Thus, an increasing understanding, founded on the Gospels and never contradicting them, is to be expected through history. 2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans Even though God could do everything alone, by not waiting his followers to align their will to His will, still he wants men to decide to cooperate with Him, to proceed in His salvation Plan. For those who knows the Scriptures, it’s not needed to quote the countless times in which God waited for men to turn to Him, and adhere His plan, before making things happen. Because being a loving Father, he doesn’t force His will upon men. 3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer Point 2 on cooperation between God and men, is one of the reasons why Jesus stressed so much the importance of prayer. To be short, we only quote some passages, but there are countless ones in the Gospels alone: (Matthew 7:7) “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” (John 16:24) “Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.” Of course, we need to make prayers aligned with God’s will. But even if something is already in God’s will, it’s really important for us to pray for it, because the Lord don’t want to force his gifts upon us, but want us to desire Him. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be any need for any prayer whatsoever. Now, what’s the only prayer that the Lord directly taught us? The Lord’s prayer. Let’s examine some passages: “your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” […] “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.” Now, let’s think about it, by knowing the Scriptures. When and how can the Lord completely fulfill these requests? Could they be fulfilled while we are still on earth? 4 – The Last Day It doesn’t take a leap of imagination, to realize that the Lord’s prayer promises will be fully fulfilled only with the Rapture and His Second Coming. [Even the only apparently not messianic request about the “bread”, is translated somewhere as “the bread of tomorrow”, thus indicating the bread of the Kingdom.] Now, it’s not a purpose of this work to choose which interpretation of the Second Coming is more Scriptural. Whatever it is, pre/post/multi/anti/tribulation,this is not the point here. The point is that only in the Last Day, the Lord will fully fulfill the Lord’s prayer requests. Now, are we aware of this? Are we, most Christians, praying that prayer with full intention and awareness, with the awareness that we are asking the Lord, according to His will, to shorten the days of His coming? It doesn’t seem like this awareness has been fully reached so far, but now the times may be arrived. Now this intention can be shared to Christians all over the earth. And it’s nothing new, it’s something fully Scriptural (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13), it’s just a better understanding of the power of our prayer in the name of Jesus. We are not predicting the day or the hour, and we’ll never try to do it. There is no needing of knowing the day nor the our, to ask the Lord to come quick, according to His will. How powerful would be this prayer, shouted by all His elects? What if some wise pastors could be able to share this intention to Christians all over the world, and all together we could pray “Come”, and “Deliver us from evil”, with the full understanding that we are asking for the Rapture, instead of passively waiting for it? This would be an unprecedented event in History, since so far most Christians have passively waited for it 5 – While in the world Asking for the rapture, doesn’t cut off any obligation for a true Christian life. Before Jesus returns, we’ll still have the obligation to love everyone, serve other people, improve the society, improve ourself, spread the Gospel. All of these commandments are in the Gospel and are immutable. At the same time, with this prayer, we clarify our intention to God, we tell Him that we are ready, and it is now time for our plans to align with His plans, and that we fully want and responsibly request His return for the elects. 6 – Warnings Unfortunately, there will always be some Christians who don’t really want the Lord to come soon. They are not excited at all about Heaven. Exactly like in these Parables: (Luke 14:15-20) “When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.” Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’ “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’ “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’ (Luke 19:14) "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' (John 12:43) “For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.” But other Christians who aspire to Heaven, would have no reason to not pray this prayer. In the worst case, it will have no effect. In the best case, how glad we will be, to see the Lord coming quickly for us. 7 – Avoid misconceptions Q: “Does praying the Lord to come quickly mean that we don’t trust His promise that He will come?” A: “Absolutely not. The Lord knew the future. He knew about the prayers from His elects, and that he wouldn’t wait to fulfill them. Exactly as in countless other situations, in which the Lord has waited for men to ask Him for what is good. (Matthew 15:21-28). We are sure that His promise will be fulfilled, but we want to be among the ones that have aligned with His will and asked Him to fulfill it quickly.” Q: “Are we forcing the Lord to do something not in His will? Doesn’t He know the Right Time?” A: “He knows the Right Time, and we don’t know according to which criteria He has decided it. But according to the prayer He taught, when He decided it, part of the weight for the decision, came from considering the prayers of His elects (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13, Luke 18:1-8). Exactly as in other situations, He gave importance and weight to the will of his disciples and prophets, when aligned to His will” Q: “Are Christians praying this prayer exempt to contribute to society, and to spend their lives serving others until the Lord come?” A: “Absolutely not. A real Christian will follow all Jesus words,not only ones about prayer,respect the laws of his country, and will spend His life helping other people, so that when the Lord will come, he will find him ready.” (Matthew 24:45-51) “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Q: “Will shortening the return of the Lord prevent some people from salvation?” A: “First off, remember that there will never be a moment on earth in which everyone will be Christian, before the rapture. It is not written anywhere. On the contrary, it is written about an increasingly diminishing of faith. Moreover, people who haven’t met Christ but are seeking for the Truth in their hearts, and are loving their brothers, will be likely raptured too. Exactly as some other righteous people like Socrates, will be raised in the last day, while evil people who are not seeking for repentance because they don’t have the seed of repentance in their hearts, will be left. Therefore, there is no such risk in shortening the day. Otherwise, the Lord wouldn’t have taught us this prayer.” Q:”What about theological and philosophical implications of this event Why someone is taken and someone else left?” A: “These are not treated here. They will be treated in other works, and some wise pastors will be able to answer this, by following the Scriptures” 8 – An unprecedented event If most Christian living today will share this intention, and pray together for it, this will be an unprecedented even in the history of the world. If the rapture happened centuries ago, it would have likely remained unexplained and not testified everywhere. But nowadays, thanks to technologies and to the Gospel spread everywhere, it will be testified to people of all nations, and everyone will know what happened. Now, our hope is that some wise Christian, who spent their lifes in the hope of Jesus’ Return, will actively spread this prayer and this intention among other pastors and Christians, so that all of us may be reunited under the Lord’s prayer, and pray together, with full intention and understanding and without the usual countless distractions and desires: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day the bread of the Day that is coming. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Maranatha. Our Lord, come!  
      9 - SOURCES:
      http://learnbibleprophecy.blogspot.it/2010/12/come-lord-jesus-maranatha.html
      https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/read/articles/can-we-hasten-the-second-coming-of-christ-15204.html
      http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Timeline/Hastening.Lords.Return.html
      http://christianteaching.org.uk/blog/eschatology/hastening-the-return-of-christ/#comment-32538
      http://folkslisten.blogspot.it/2010/06/can-i-speed-up-return-of-jesus.html
      https://nathanaelflock.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/scriptural-conviction-hastening-the-day-of-the-lord/
      http://quailandmanna.com/god-justice/
      https://peteenns.com/why-jesus-hasnt-come-back-yet-according-to-the-new-testament/
      http://ifollowjesusnow.tk/hastening-ready-day-lord/
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIdjGyMTAds
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM67orv8VkYF
      PDF:
      maranatha.pdf
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      Daily Reading 36 If you prefer, you can look up the following verses in your own Bible, of by whatever means and in whatever version you choose. Hebrews 1 Genesis 45:1-46:27 Psalm 36 Audio 2:15 Audio 4:10 Audio 1:29 The above addresses are linked to Bible Gateway. That is an easy way to read (or listen to) the Bible verses, and choose your version.  Personally, I prefer written, that way I can go at my own pace, on think about it, before moving on. Nothing wrong with doing either or both. The Bible says faith comes by hearing. See the picture below to get an idea of what to expect if you follow the above links.

      Note: The audio will not play the exact verses, it will play the whole chapters, in which the verses exist.
      Thank you Lord for making the your word so accessible for us in these times. Amen

    • By Living Stone
      God is the great revealer, Satan is the great concealer
      Man gave control over the world to Satan, at the beginning, through disobedience to God,
      God created all angels (disembodied spirit beings) and humans (spirits living in a physical body) with a freewill, the ability to choose, a will that is free to make decisions independent from Him. Satan and a third of the angels were cast out of heaven when they chose to rebel against God. Man transferred his God given dominion over the world to Satan in the Garden of Eden the moment he chose to hear and obey the devil’s words over the words he had heard from God. From that moment Satan became the god or ruler of this world and the source of all the evil that influences the lives of most of the human race. This is why in the temptations of Jesus, Satan could legitimately boast that “The kingdoms of the world …this has been delivered to me” (Luke 4:5-6 - and Jesus didn’t refute Satan’s claim).
      1 John 5:19 We know positively that we are of God, and the whole world around us is under the power of the evil one (Satan). AMP
      2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. KJV
      Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
      In the end Jesus takes back the dominion of the world from Satan,
      Rev 11:15 “The kingdoms of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” ESV/KJV
      Satan, the concealer, does not want us to know if or how he operates in our lives,
      Now Satan’s kingdom is a kingdom of darkness, meaning he operates where there is no light or insufficient light from God, who is light, in men’s hearts to expose his activities. God’s word makes plain to those who have light that Satan has an enormous influence in the lives of all the unconverted and sadly in the lives of many of those converted to Christ but who do not currently walk in the light. But all of these who Satan constantly influences for evil are largely unaware that Satan exists let alone is a dominant factor in their lives. Why? Because Satan is the master deceiver, and able to remain anonymous in the lives of those with whom he proceeds to steal and to kill and to destroy (John 10:10). Hence:
      Luke 21:8 (Jesus) “Take heed that you not be deceived…”
      Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived…
      James 1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
      These are multiple warnings, not to the world that is completely deceived, but to us Christians who also have the potential of likewise being deceived by the great deceiver:
      Isa 14:12-17 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer…You who weakened the Nations…Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, Who did not open the house of his prisoners.
      Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world…
      Eph 2:2-3 AMP In which at one time you walked habitually. You were following the course and fashion of this world…following the prince of the power of the air. You were obedient to and under the control of the demon spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience…Among these we as well as you once lived and conducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh, our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature, obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind…we were then by nature children of God's wrath…like the rest of mankind.
      The extent of our ignorance of Satan’s operations shows how successful he’s been with us,
      The scripture makes clear that Christians were all once under the influence of Satan as everyone else is without exception and, we like they, did not know that we were. Why? Because this master concealer operates through thoughts that he imparts into our thought lives, that we in our ignorance falsely assume to be our own thoughts. These are what the scripture calls the fiery darts of the enemy, thoughts which only the faith that comes from an active, deepening relationship with God can extinguish or take captive.
      2 Cor 2:11 Lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices (the same greek word translated devices is translated as thought in)
      2 Cor 10:5 …Bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
      Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery(thought) darts of the wicked one.
      Satan’s principal weapons are thoughts, and are the major source of all evil in the world! Not just thoughts of overt wickedness, but also more subtle thoughts that have the superficial appearance of rightness about them. But they’re thoughts designed to divert us from a full surrender to Christ and to challenge the authority of God’s words to us, just like he did with Adam and Eve. Satan can’t force his will on us, for we have a will and a conscience, but if we don’t know how to discern his influence he’s bound to have some control in our thought lives, particularly with respect to God. It shouldn’t surprise us therefore to learn that Satan, as the great concealer, can disguise the nature of his thoughts so that they appear to us to be both truth and light:
      2 Cor 11:14 …Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light! TEV
      1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour (consume with his thoughts).
      What are some examples of Satan disguising himself and his thoughts, which he imparts to people, as right and illuminating thoughts? Since there is only one mediator between God and all men, Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:5) Satan inspires all the other, seemingly right, religions to divert those he can deceive from becoming Christians. Then within the Church he sows the thought seeds of many, seemingly right, Christian teachings. But they are all false teachings that oppose God and keep Christians from being fully saved and eternally secure.
      1 Tim 4:1 Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that…some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. NLT Therefore,
      1 Tim 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine (teaching) closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
      He is able to get away with these deceptions because all of the false doctrines that contradict God, that he imparts through thoughts, like - “the inevitability of sin”; “God is in control anyway”; “I can’t lose my salvation” – These teachings all have a strong appeal to and give license to our sinful human nature,
      Inevitability of sin,
      1 Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of (belongs to) the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the (sin) works of the devil.
      Matt 1:21 …you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sin.
      Rm 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you… NKJV
      God in control,
      Matt 6:10 Your kingdom come, your will be done (because it is being hindered by the kingdom of darkness), on earth as it is in heaven.
      Can’t lose my salvation,
      Heb 6:4 …bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened, those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come, and who then turn away from God. NLT
      As Christians we do not have to be deceived, provided we grow and walk in God’s light,
      God has made it possible for every Christian to see through the deceptions of Satan and continue to walk in the light and not be snared by the subtle works of darkness. God’s two principal requirements to do this are: (1) A heart or spirit that remains tender toward God and receives daily the engrafting of more of God’s light giving words, and (2) A willingness to submit to and do God’s will and thereby remain under the leading and control of the Holy Spirit. Only such Christians as continue to hear and obey God’s voice, God speaking through His word and by His Spirit, and don’t listen to Satan’s thoughts or voice.
      John 10:4-5 And when He (The Chief Shepherd) brings out His own sheep...the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger (Satan) but will flee from him for they do not know the voice (thoughts) of strangers...
      1 John 2:26-27 These things I have written to you (God’s word) concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing (Holy Spirit) which you have received from Him abides in you and…teaches you all things, and is true, and is not a lie…
      Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God (your spirit clothed with the protective truth of God’s words), that you may be able to stand against the wiles (deceits) of the devil.
      In particular Satan imparts thoughts that contradict the true teaching that every believer in Christ needs to be baptized with and remain full of and under the control of the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit is the only One who can cause the word of God to become truth and light in the hearts of believers and so expose all of Satan’s works of darkness.
      Acts 19:2 Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?
      Matt 3:11 …He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit…
      Eph 5:18 …be filled (continually) with Spirit…
      Rm 8:14 …as many as are led (under the control of) by the Spirit, these are the children of God.
      Satan does not want to be known, but God wants to be known, He is the great revealer,
      1 Cor 2:9-14 ….No (natural) mind has conceived the things which God has prepared for those who love Him. But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit…that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God…But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God…nor can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned (revealed by God’s Spirit to a person’s re-born spirit).
      Matt 11:25 …Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes” (to those spiritually born again and willing to grow up in spirit).
      Col 1:26-27 The mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known…this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
      Everywhere in scripture our loving and redeeming Father makes indisputably clear His eagerness to reveal Himself to the hearts or spirits, but not to the intellects, of anyone who will allow Him to do so. This of course is the absolute worst thing from Satan’s standpoint and he will do everything possible to conceal this truth. He wants to stop people becoming Christians, and then if they do, to stop them becoming true disciples of Christ. Since they, with Christ actively living in them, will make others of his captives into Christ’s disciples too. Although Jesus Christ defeated Satan at Calvary he still controls the world and most of the Church because of their ignorance of his devices. And what is God doing? He is regaining control one soul at a time, as each soul turns at His correction so that He can make Himself known to their hearts by the Holy Spirit and through His word.
      2 Tim 2:24-26 …the servant of the Lord must not strive (quarrel); but be gentle to all men (people), able to teach, patient, in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if perhaps God may grant them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth, And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. NKJV
      Prov 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out My Spirit on you; I will make My words known to you (to make you holy as He is holy and to expose the beguiling thoughts of Satan).
      Jn 16:33 Jesus, These things I have spoken unto you (the truths in this message!)…In the world you shall have tribulation (trouble, because of the world, our own flesh, and the Devil), but be of good cheer; I have overcome (All your enemies!)… NKJV
      Thank you Father for revealing the truth and for making a way for us to be more than conquerors, and to always triumph “in Christ”, Amen!
    • By Sharky and George
      I think that as Christian's, we too can be "in the spirit" like John in the book of Revelation.
      It is when you have a lot of faith and in this time a lot of God's revelations (things that will happen) come to us.
      The book of Revelation has this title because of this - it was revealed to John how things will be.
       
       
       
      A good way to get a lot of faith is to read your bible for a long period of time maybe an hour on an occasion - you cannot do this all the time but you should daily read your bible for shorter periods. Get an enjoyable version that is fun to encourage you to do this (I like the Message and/or the ESV - English Standard Version):
       
       
       
      Faith is our link to God so having a link in faith enables Him to reveal things to us through what is like a telephone line that has been setup.
      Read your favourite bible version and pray to God like you are having a conversation with Him whilst you are having a coffee - who knows, you might end up having a chat, coming closer to someone who loves you more than you could ever know and therefore making Him very happy.
      Make sure you use wisdom with your faith though so you can discern away mis-leading spirits that may effect the conversation. This is noise and interference on the telephone line.
       
       
       
      Shalom  
×