The Pretrib Rapture: An Entitlement for the Privileged Few?

[Last Daze]

51 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

THIS will show in time where our TRUST and LOYLATY TRULY IS .     is it in the beasts system to provide ,    OR DO WE TRUST IN GOD ALONE to provide

Exactly.  The worshipers will be measured.  Rev 11:1

[JoeCanada]

7 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

Of cause God will recompense tribulation to those who have troubled us., But that doesn't mean we go through the great tribulation period. Paul said When Jesus comes, We will be with Him 1 Thess 2: 19. 1 Thess 3: 13. Rev 19: 14.   Zeck 14: 5.

Paul goes into 2 Thess 2: 1--7 and tells us that the Church has to go before the man of sin can come.

Everyone who believe the Church goes through the great tribulation, HAS to twist the scriptures.

Hi Alan....

The problem with those who hold to a "pre-tribulation" rapture is that they have to TWIST scriptures to make it fit.

Of the 195 countries in the world, there is Christian persecution in 53 of them. That's more than 1/4 th.

Of the 7.4 billion people on the earth, just over 2 billion are Christians.

Of the 2 billion Christians, there is persecution/tribulation for 250 million of them.

That's 1 in 8!

Where is the promise of pre-trib rapture for them?

They are beaten, raped, put in prison, tortured, beheaded, their homes are taken, their churches destroyed. They have no food, no jobs. They have no safety. They are on the run!

Is it only the "saints" in North America who will be raptured before the "great" tribulation?

Is it not a "great" tribulation for our brothers and sisters who face persecution/tribulation today? What do you say to those 250 million?.............Oh don't worry, it's not "great" yet. 

How much "greater" will it get?

When tribulation comes "knocking" on our doors, and it will, what will we do then? 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Exactly.  The worshipers will be measured.  Rev 11:1

Take heed and examine what is next said .     I noticed the title of this thread is an entitlement for the privledged few .

HERE is what we are entitled too in this world .   EXACTLY WHAT OUR KING Was given .   a crown of thorns , rejection and death .

FOR we are not above OUR MASTER , we are to be AS our master .   AND if the world hated HIM , IT WILL HATE US .

IF it called him beezelabub , OH how it will us too .     

HERE is what we are entitled too ,   A WORLD THAT WILL HATE , PERSECUTE and KILL US .       Go on , pick that CROWN UP .   PICK IT UP AND REJIOCE IN THE LORD .

For it we be without chastisement , we are bastards and not sons .

EXAMINE what I say next as well.

I hear from some that BEFORE persecution gets bad , WE WILL BE RAPTURED .      WELL,   tell that to the few overseas who are DYING already .

TELL that to those who are being beaten and put in prison and killed and tortured to the extreme FOR THEIR FAITH .

NO my friends ,  A WORLD WIDE PERSECUTION that will result if many of our deaths , IS COMING and ITS COMING FORTHE HOUSE OF GOD .

ITS COMING and already the ideals that lead to this have long been preached .  WORLD PEACE , UNTIY and INCLUSVINESS.

MANY will die in the times and days ahead .   WHETHER WE REMAIN FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH ,  IS THE QUESTION .    WE aint got them crowns yet .

Paul knew it THAT CROWN WAS GIVEN ON THE DAY OF THE LORD AND ONLY TO THOSE WHO HAD REMAINED FAITHFUL TO THE LAST BREATH .

OUR CROWNS ARE THIS ,      A CROWN OF THORNS .   NOW PICK THAT UP AND BE READY TO LOSE ALL FOR JESUS SAKE .  FOR ITS COMING AND ITS COMING FOR US ALL WHO LOVE JESUS.

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Alan....

The problem with those who hold to a "pre-tribulation" rapture is that they have to TWIST scriptures to make it fit.

Of the 195 countries in the world, there is Christian persecution in 53 of them. That's more than 1/4 th.

Of the 7.4 billion people on the earth, just over 2 billion are Christians.

Of the 2 billion Christians, there is persecution/tribulation for 250 million of them.

That's 1 in 8!

Where is the promise of pre-trib rapture for them?

They are beaten, raped, put in prison, tortured, beheaded, their homes are taken, their churches destroyed. They have no food, no jobs. They have no safety. They are on the run!

Is it only the "saints" in North America who will be raptured before the "great" tribulation?

Is it not a "great" tribulation for our brothers and sisters who face persecution/tribulation today? What do you say to those 250 million?.............Oh don't worry, it's not "great" yet. 

How much "greater" will it get?

When tribulation comes "knocking" on our doors, and it will, what will we do then? 

When tribulation comes "knocking" on our doors, and it will, what will we do then?

WE WILL DIE FOR OUR LORD .    And we will do all by HIS grace to expound , exhort and remind and contend for the true faith . NO MATTER WHAT THE COST .

to die is only gain , to LIVE IS ONLY IN AND FOR CHRIST no matter what the cost .     GREAT PERSECUTION IS COMING FOR US ALL .   ANY who are spiritual,

KNOW what I say is true . ITS COMING FOR US ALL .     And we better be prepared to lose everything including our life for CHRIST . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

Scripture says that it is the righteous judgment of God to suffer tribulation and persecution for the sake of that kingdom of God, 

*[[2Th 1:4]] KJV* So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:  Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Paul also said that no flesh shall glory in his presence.   And Christ shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom.   It is the redemption of our bodies at his appearance that will allow us to stand in bodies of flesh before God himself.   The reason that no man,  found worthy of the kingdom,  will be able to glory in the flesh will bee because the day of the Lord will come upon everyone that dwells on the face of the earth... in expectancy by the faithful,  unexpectedly by the rest. 

*[[1Th 5:4]] KJV* But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

All that we can do, Joe,  is warn them,  so that the blood of a righteous man who turns and does wickedly in that day, will not be on our hands. 

Blessings

The PuP  

And paul knew that .   FOR I am FREE from the blood of all men , FORI HAVE NOT SHUNNED to warn .............................................GOD will hold those accountable

who did nothing to warn the righteous who erred to repent and who did nothing to point to JESUS as the only means and name to be SAVED .

This all inclusive world peace pile of steamy puke getting sold is a lie from hell itself .    Just a doorway in to the BROAD ROAD is all it is . 

[Alan Hales]

17 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Alan.   Really ponder and pray about this .    Men have had to invent things like Two comings of Christ and made claim that the Saints the beast persecutes

are ones left behind . WHY not read it for what it says .  And it says the anti Christ , beast , goes after the saints .  It also shows very clearly WHO the wrath of GOD comes against .

those who worshipped the beast and His kingdom .    I mean if we really read second thess, its very clear .   JESUS told us men would kill us and persecute us

and HE says BLESSED are you when they DO .    He is the one who said YOU WILL HAVE tribulation in this world .  He never once gave the impression we would escape

MANS tribulation against us .   WE escape GODS wrath , which comes NOT against the saints , BUT AGAINST the beast and those of his kingdom .

It is so easy to see this .  But men have made many changes to the scrips through time ,   to teach from THIER OWN point of view .  INSTEAD of just reading the scrips .

Instead of just reading the scrips and letting the Spirit reveal the simple childlike truth ,   they have sat under men who have long ago made a teaching

which feeds the flesh .   FOR the flesh does not desire to suffer for Christ .  EVEN PETER got rebuked for this one .   OH LORD , be that far from you .   

And the LORD rebuked peter for his mind was on the things of men , NOT GOD .    WE SUPPOSED to suffer tribulation from man and satan .  

Read second thess,    ITS actually the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD that we SUFFER for the KINGDOM .    Yet these men of long ago

desired the easy life , the things that be of men , NOT GOD .    I know if you start over and re read for yourself and really pray ,  this will become clearer to you in time .

 

It was God who told us about the TWO end time comings of Jesus, As 2 Thess 2: 1 tells us, You are just showing your Biblical ignorance

You are getting the people [Saints] who get saved during the great tribulation period, Mixed up with the Church, [Saints] in the Church age.

There is a difference between the tribulation, [Trouble] that we'll get in the Church age, and the tribulation the people that get saved during the great tribulation period.

Both Jesus, and Paul [ Who was inspired by Jesus], Said we WON'T go through the great tribulation period, Then you come along and say we will go through it.  you can believe your own beliefs, But I will believe the Bible. 

See these two defferences.

At the pre-trib rapture, Jesus comes for His people.... After the tribulation, The Angels gather those who get saved during it.

Two different events.

At the rapture, The Church [The Christians] goes to heaven... After the tribulation, the Church comes from heaven.

Two different events.

The Church has to go before the man of sin [The antichrist] can come and start the tribulation period. If the devil couldn't handle ONE Jesus, How is he going to deal with millions who are just like Jesus??. he can't, That's why we HAVE to be raptured before the antichrist can come.

I'll let you find the scriptures for these events, It'll do you good to find the truth.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Alan Hales

[Alan Hales]

15 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Alan....

The problem with those who hold to a "pre-tribulation" rapture is that they have to TWIST scriptures to make it fit.

Of the 195 countries in the world, there is Christian persecution in 53 of them. That's more than 1/4 th.

Of the 7.4 billion people on the earth, just over 2 billion are Christians.

Of the 2 billion Christians, there is persecution/tribulation for 250 million of them.

That's 1 in 8!

Where is the promise of pre-trib rapture for them?

They are beaten, raped, put in prison, tortured, beheaded, their homes are taken, their churches destroyed. They have no food, no jobs. They have no safety. They are on the run!

Is it only the "saints" in North America who will be raptured before the "great" tribulation?

Is it not a "great" tribulation for our brothers and sisters who face persecution/tribulation today? What do you say to those 250 million?.............Oh don't worry, it's not "great" yet. 

How much "greater" will it get?

When tribulation comes "knocking" on our doors, and it will, what will we do then? 

The problem with those who don't believe the pre tribulation rapture, Is, They don't believe the Bible, Hence them twisting the scriptures.

You are getting people having tribulation, [Trouble] in the Church age, [This dispensation, the dispensation of grace], mixed up with the great tribulation period. [The dispensation of wrath]. Two different dispensations. Those who believe we go through the great tribulation period, Cannot give any scriptures, They twist the scriptures and give pure speculations, And you CANNOT build doctrines on twisted scriptures and speculations.

See these two defferences.

At the pre-trib rapture, Jesus comes for His people.... After the tribulation, The Angels gather those who get saved during it.

Two different events.

At the rapture, The Church [The Christians] goes to heaven... After the tribulation, the Church comes from heaven.

Two different events.

The Church has to go before the man of sin [The antichrist] can come and start the tribulation period. If the devil couldn't handle ONE Jesus, How is he going to deal with millions who are just like Jesus??. he can't, That's why we HAVE to be raptured before the antichrist can come.

I'll let you find the scriptures for these events, It'll do you good to find the truth.

[WilliamL]

10 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

The Church has to go before the man of sin [The antichrist] can come and start the tribulation period.

Your statement denies the witness of Paul:

2 Thes. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition...

You say the church must be gone "before the man of sin [The antichrist] can come."

Paul says "our gathering together unto him [our Lord Jesus Christ] ... shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed..."

[Steve Conley]

17 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

The problem with those who don't believe the pre tribulation rapture, Is, They don't believe the Bible, Hence them twisting the scriptures.

You are getting people having tribulation, [Trouble] in the Church age, [This dispensation, the dispensation of grace], mixed up with the great tribulation period. [The dispensation of wrath]. Two different dispensations. Those who believe we go through the great tribulation period, Cannot give any scriptures, They twist the scriptures and give pure speculations, And you CANNOT build doctrines on twisted scriptures and speculations.

See these two defferences.

At the pre-trib rapture, Jesus comes for His people.... After the tribulation, The Angels gather those who get saved during it.

Two different events.

At the rapture, The Church [The Christians] goes to heaven... After the tribulation, the Church comes from heaven.

Two different events.

The Church has to go before the man of sin [The antichrist] can come and start the tribulation period. If the devil couldn't handle ONE Jesus, How is he going to deal with millions who are just like Jesus??. he can't, That's why we HAVE to be raptured before the antichrist can come.

I'll let you find the scriptures for these events, It'll do you good to find the truth.

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Alan, the difference between you and those you are contending with is that they provide chapter and verse for each of their propositions. You, on the other hand, spout off with your knowledge of the pre-trib dispensational system. I know your system much better than you do. I taught it for thirty years. It is built upon assumptions, inference, eisegesis, misunderstandings, and circular reasoning. Your system is not Scripture. It has no authority. That means that you have no Biblical basis for what you say.

You, sir, are contending with the very God that you claim to worship. Jesus said, in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Your beliefs concerning these things are in opposition to the words of Christ, the apostles, and the prophets.

On top of that, your foolish statements only serve to put on display your own ignorance and immaturity.

If you would begin to provide support for each of your propositions by referencing explicit statements from the Holy Scriptures, you will find that what you have believed is a house of cards.

Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Glory be to Jesus Christ

 

[Alan Hales]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your statement denies the witness of Paul:

2 Thes. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition...

You say the church must be gone "before the man of sin [The antichrist] can come."

Paul says "our gathering together unto him [our Lord Jesus Christ] ... shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed..."

Jesus said, "That day shall not come"  What day, The day of the physical coming of Jesus to reign. Please note v1, "The coming of our Lord AND our gathering together unto Him. [1]The coming of our lord,= the physical coming to reign for 1000 years. [2]Our gathering together unto Him= the pre tribulation rapture. The Greek meaning for, "Falling away", is made up from two Greek words which means "A Departing, a taking away". Please note what 2 Thess 2: 3 DOESN'T SAY, It doesn't say a "falling away FROM THE FAITH", Does it??.  Even if it did, people  have fallen away from the faith. The reason why Paul wrote 2 Thess 2, is because some people were scaring the Christians by saying they'll have to go through the tribulation period. v2. Then Paul goes on to tell them not to worry because the Church will be raptures before the man of sin can come. Vs 3--8.