Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[iamlamad]

21 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

I don't find THE DAY being 7 years. As I read the book, THE DAY includes the 1000 year reign of Christ and perhaps what follows, as in the new heaven and new earth to include the white throne judgment. It is the WEEK that is 7 years long.

But you say...."Therefore, when read of His wrath later on in Revelation, I think we can rightly assume that it started at the 6th seal and CONTINUES ON through the entire week.

So....are you saying that God's Wrath, the Day of the Lord....is or isn't 7 years long?... You say that the Day of the Lord BEGINS at the 6th seal and continues on through the entire week. The entire week being 7 years.

Then you say that the Day of the Lord is 1000 years long!!!!!

Do you see this happening throughout the 1000 year period..............

It will be a day of calamity....a day of wrath....a day of distress and anguish....a day of trouble and ruin....a day of clouds and darkness...a day of fire and brimstone

Isaiah describes a massive leveling; whatever is lofty will be brought low (2:12-170).....there is fear, pain and anguish will grip them(13:8).......Malachai 3:19.. For the Day of the Lord is coming, burning like an oven

I find scripture to be pretty clear. After the Tribulation of those days (Math 24).....there will be a celestial and terrestrial event (Math 24:29, Luke 21:25-26, Joel 2:31, Rev 6:12.......), We look up for our redemption is near (Luke 21:25-28).....Christ comes on the clouds and every eye will see Him, and He Resurrects and Raptures believers (Math 24:31, 1Thes 4:15-17, 2Thes 2:1........ALL THIS TAKES PLACE WHEN GOD CUTS SHORT THE TRIBULATION.......AND THEN THE DAY OF THE LORD COMMENCES, THE DAY OF WRATH. THAT'S WHY THE DAY OF THE LORD IS ONE YEAR LONG. THE TRIBULATION IS SHORTENED BY ONE YEAR.

I am saying that God's wrath is found in the DAY of His wrath, and that time frame will be longer than 7 years, for the 6th seal comes before the 7th seal officially opens the 70th week. Then, I find scriptures that show Jesus also with wrath when He comes post 70th week with power to defeat his enemies at the battle of Armageddon. 

Then it is very possible THE DAY continues on until after the thousand year reign of Christ - but I don't see God's anger going past the battle of Armageddon.

There are some problems: first, Paul's rapture comes before the "trib," while the gathering in Matthew 24 comes after. Next, Paul's gathering is from the earth, while the Matthew 24 gathering is from heaven and if we add Luke, heaven and earth.  Next, there is simply no written proof that the gathering in Matthew IS Paul's rapture, and there is proof it is not. 

John shows us THE DAY starting in chapter 6, but His coming after the "trib" in chapter 19 - yet you imagine they happen together. Does this bother you at all?  Is there scripture anywhere where John tells us to rearrange to fit a theory? 

Why not start THE DAY before the week, as John does, then start the week, then close the week, then show the marriage and supper in heaven, then show the descent with the armies of heaven and the battle of Armageddon, exactly in the order as written? How and why do you find the need to rearrange all that? 

Do you know HOW God will cut short "the tribulation?"

In fact, WHERE ARE the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of found in Revelation? 

Why 1000 years long or longer? Perhaps what Peter wrote of the elements melting happens at Christ's coming - but perhaps it si when the NEW EARTH comes. If it is the latter, then the day must extend for that. I will say, I have trouble with that theory, simply because the Old Testament gives no hint of the last part of THE DAY being nice!  It is possible THE DAY of His wrath ends with the battle of Armageddon. By the way, that would make it LONGER than the week, but not by much. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, Diaste said:

Not mine. The Lord has said. Or in the case of pretrib doctrine, the Lord has NOT said.

I beg your pardon!  It is more likely the Lord SAID but you cannot find it!

[Diaste]

38 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

I find scripture to be pretty clear. After the Tribulation of those days (Math 24).....there will be a celestial and terrestrial event (Math 24:29, Luke 21:25-26, Joel 2:31, Rev 6:12.......), We look up for our redemption is near (Luke 21:25-28).....Christ comes on the clouds and every eye will see Him, and He Resurrects and Raptures believers (Math 24:31, 1Thes 4:15-17, 2Thes 2:1........ALL THIS TAKES PLACE WHEN GOD CUTS SHORT THE TRIBULATION.......AND THEN THE DAY OF THE LORD COMMENCES, THE DAY OF WRATH. THAT'S WHY THE DAY OF THE LORD IS ONE YEAR LONG. THE TRIBULATION IS SHORTENED BY ONE YEAR.

Exactly. And if the change at the gathering takes place in the blink of and eye, it can and will happen in a moment, to millions at the same moment, and so can and will occur on the same day wrath falls. Just like Noah; Noah entered into the ark on the same day the wrath of the flood began and God shut the door to to the ark. That's how it will occur when Jesus comes. We will enter into the ark of His care and He will lock us in safety, and then wrath, on the same day.

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

I beg your pardon!  It is more likely the Lord SAID but you cannot find it!

Well exactly, again. I cannot find it. No one can. Cause it ain't true.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

AND in the opinion of until millions of other believers and perhaps even commentators. 

Ah yes, the majority opinion. The consensus is proof of truth then? Not likely.

[Diaste]

8 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Again, In your opinion!

Is that how one goes about circumventing logical arguments? 

In your opinion; the umbrella under which refutation of all challenges emanates.

[HAZARD]

13 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Is that how one goes about circumventing logical arguments? 

In your opinion; the umbrella under which refutation of all challenges emanates.

There is a simple key to the book of Revelation that makes the whole book simple to understand by all alike. This key is found in Revelation 1:19 and 4:1.
The book is in three clearly defined divisions:

First, "the things which thou hast seen," that is the visions of Christ, as in Rev. 1.

Second, "the things which are," that is, the things concerning the churches, as in Rev. 2-3.

Third. "the things which shall be hereafter," that is, after the churches, as in Rev. 4-22.
 

To prove that everything of Revelation, from the fourth chapter on, must be after the churches, in Rev. 4:1 after he had written the vision of Christ in chapter one and the things concerning the churches in chapters two and three, John was caught up to Heaven and was told that he was to see the things which must be hereafter, that is, after the churches. If the things of Rev. 4:1 through the rest of the book must be after the churches, then they must be fulfilled after the churches and not during the time of the churches. This is proof that the rapture of the church must take place before the fulfillment of everything in Rev. 4-22. If we will take literally and consecutively the events of these chapters and believe that they will happen after the rapture of the church, nothing in the book will be hard to understand..

 

The Rapture of the Church will occur before the Tribulation.

 

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them.

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36.

These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power.

[JoeCanada]

31 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Exactly. And if the change at the gathering takes place in the blink of and eye, it can and will happen in a moment, to millions at the same moment, and so can and will occur on the same day wrath falls. Just like Noah; Noah entered into the ark on the same day the wrath of the flood began and God shut the door to to the ark. That's how it will occur when Jesus comes. We will enter into the ark of His care and He will lock us in safety, and then wrath, on the same day.

Hi Diaste....

Yes....so very true.

And how long were they locked in the ark?

That's right.....ONE YEAR and 10 days......The same length of time that the Day of the Lord is.

Here is another biblical proof of the Day of the Lord being a year.....

Now, look at this from Deut:

When a man takes a new wife, he shall not go out with the army nor be charged with any duty; he shall be free at home one year and shall give happiness to his wife whom he has taken. (Deut. 24:5)

This prescription about marriage will be honored by Jesus. He will marry the Bride of Christ in heaven after the Rapture. Only a year later will he return to wage war against the Antichrist armies.  In Revelation 19 we see this exact order of events. The Wedding Supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven  first, only then does Jesus mount a white horse and return to the earth to fight Armageddon.  There is a one year period between the wedding and the return. That year will be the Day of the Lord.

[JoeCanada]

44 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I am saying that God's wrath is found in the DAY of His wrath, and that time frame will be longer than 7 years, for the 6th seal comes before the 7th seal officially opens the 70th week. Then, I find scriptures that show Jesus also with wrath when He comes post 70th week with power to defeat his enemies at the battle of Armageddon. 

Then it is very possible THE DAY continues on until after the thousand year reign of Christ - but I don't see God's anger going past the battle of Armageddon.

There are some problems: first, Paul's rapture comes before the "trib," while the gathering in Matthew 24 comes after. Next, Paul's gathering is from the earth, while the Matthew 24 gathering is from heaven and if we add Luke, heaven and earth.  Next, there is simply no written proof that the gathering in Matthew IS Paul's rapture, and there is proof it is not. 

John shows us THE DAY starting in chapter 6, but His coming after the "trib" in chapter 19 - yet you imagine they happen together. Does this bother you at all?  Is there scripture anywhere where John tells us to rearrange to fit a theory? 

Why not start THE DAY before the week, as John does, then start the week, then close the week, then show the marriage and supper in heaven, then show the descent with the armies of heaven and the battle of Armageddon, exactly in the order as written? How and why do you find the need to rearrange all that? 

Do you know HOW God will cut short "the tribulation?"

In fact, WHERE ARE the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of found in Revelation? 

Why 1000 years long or longer? Perhaps what Peter wrote of the elements melting happens at Christ's coming - but perhaps it si when the NEW EARTH comes. If it is the latter, then the day must extend for that. I will say, I have trouble with that theory, simply because the Old Testament gives no hint of the last part of THE DAY being nice!  It is possible THE DAY of His wrath ends with the battle of Armageddon. By the way, that would make it LONGER than the week, but not by much. 

Hi iamlamad...

I am saying that God's wrath is found in the DAY of His wrath, and that time frame will be longer than 7 years......speculation. Where's your proof from scripture

for the 6th seal comes before the 7th seal officially opens the 70th week.....speculation....no proof of this anywhere in scripture

I find scriptures that show Jesus also with wrath when He comes post 70th week with power to defeat his enemies at the battle of Armageddon......show me the scriptures that He comes POST 70th week for the battle of Armegeddon

Then it is very possible THE DAY continues on until after the thousand year reign of Christ.......not possible. 1000 years of doom and gloom, clouds and darkness...fire and brimstone, etc. Can't see the Lord having saved His righteous ones and then have them endure THAT for 1000 years.

There are some problems: first, Paul's rapture comes before the "trib,......No scriptural proof. None. Nada. Zilch.

Paul's gathering is from the earth, while the Matthew 24 gathering is from heaven and if we add Luke, heaven and earth. ......It's the SAME gathering.....you're really grasping at straws here. For Pete's sake!

there is simply no written proof that the gathering in Matthew IS Paul's rapture, and there is proof it is not.......ok then, hit me with your best shot....show me the money!

John shows us THE DAY starting in chapter 6, but His coming after the "trib" in chapter 19 - yet you imagine they happen together. Does this bother you at all?......NOPE, doesn't bother me one iota! The Lord's coming isn't in a DAY. Just like His first coming wasn't in a day. It stretched out for some 33 years. Rev 6 is the start of His coming. Rev 19 is the end of His coming

Why not start THE DAY before the week,......because that would be rearranging what is written in scripture. Besides, it's not the FIRST DAY of a week....it's the DAY OF THE LORD!

Do you know HOW God will cut short "the tribulation?"...... Sure do. He cuts it short with the Rapture/Resurrection/Celestial-Terrestial disturbance/Day of the Lord....... 

In fact, WHERE ARE the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of found in Revelation? .....you'll find them in Rev 6

[Steve Conley]

34 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi iamlamad...

I am saying that God's wrath is found in the DAY of His wrath, and that time frame will be longer than 7 years......speculation. Where's your proof from scripture

for the 6th seal comes before the 7th seal officially opens the 70th week.....speculation....no proof of this anywhere in scripture

I find scriptures that show Jesus also with wrath when He comes post 70th week with power to defeat his enemies at the battle of Armageddon......show me the scriptures that He comes POST 70th week for the battle of Armegeddon

Then it is very possible THE DAY continues on until after the thousand year reign of Christ.......not possible. 1000 years of doom and gloom, clouds and darkness...fire and brimstone, etc. Can't see the Lord having saved His righteous ones and then have them endure THAT for 1000 years.

There are some problems: first, Paul's rapture comes before the "trib,......No scriptural proof. None. Nada. Zilch.

Paul's gathering is from the earth, while the Matthew 24 gathering is from heaven and if we add Luke, heaven and earth. ......It's the SAME gathering.....you're really grasping at straws here. For Pete's sake!

there is simply no written proof that the gathering in Matthew IS Paul's rapture, and there is proof it is not.......ok then, hit me with your best shot....show me the money!

John shows us THE DAY starting in chapter 6, but His coming after the "trib" in chapter 19 - yet you imagine they happen together. Does this bother you at all?......NOPE, doesn't bother me one iota! The Lord's coming isn't in a DAY. Just like His first coming wasn't in a day. It stretched out for some 33 years. Rev 6 is the start of His coming. Rev 19 is the end of His coming

Why not start THE DAY before the week,......because that would be rearranging what is written in scripture. Besides, it's not the FIRST DAY of a week....it's the DAY OF THE LORD!

Do you know HOW God will cut short "the tribulation?"...... Sure do. He cuts it short with the Rapture/Resurrection/Celestial-Terrestial disturbance/Day of the Lord....... 

In fact, WHERE ARE the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of found in Revelation? .....you'll find them in Rev 6

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Joe, if the period of God's wrath, in the second half of the week, is one year in length, will we not know the day of Christ's return? Do you believe that we can now know the day, whereas during Christ's ministry only the Father knew the day. 

Also, if you have a comprehensive list of Scriptures that may indicate the period length of God's wrath in the second half of the week could you provide them? Thanks

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb