Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
nobleseed

who is he

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, noblenut said:

" ..."

WILLIAM L wrote, 

Rev. 1:19 Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after these [future]Most people insert ONLY in this verse in their thinking. God was VERY free to include some history with His future - and He did.

“The things seen” (by John up to that point) are told in Rev. 1:9-20. “The things which are” – that is, that were taking place at the time of John’s visions – are told in Rev. 2-3, when Jesus tells each of the 7 churches, “I know your works.” Then, beginning in Rev. 4:1, we find:

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these [things].

Again people insert ONLY here too, but John did not write ONLY. God was free to show John things of the past with future events - and HE DID! For example, Rev. 12: 1-5 is about Jesus and how the devil used King Herod to try and kill Jesus as a young child. 

Everything John was shown from Rev. 4:1 onward is future from – “after” – his day.

This comment is MYTH. The writer imagines an ONLY written in the above verses. The truth is, the vision of chapter 4 is a vision of the past - John was looking into the throne room during the time Jesus was still on earth. This is proven by Jesus NOT SEEN at the right hand of the Father, where we have a dozen verses telling us that is where He should have been. Truth? There was 32 years of time when Jesus was NOT at the right hand of the Father: He was on earth. Readers take careful note: Jesus did NOT WRITE  "only" things in the future.

This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Rev. 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus was of the same pattern and type.  This comment too is MYTH. The first five verses here  are about how the dragon tried to kill Jesus using King Herod. They are HISTORY today and were HISTORY to John. 

Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be:  Sorry, but JESUS is the manchild born of Israel.

Rev. 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces:as I also have received from my Father. True, because it is scripture: but verses 1-5 is about JESUS: He was born of a virgin, the church was not.

Rev. 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shepherd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron. "She" is the virgin represented by VIRGO.  JESUS was born of a virgin.

Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven: MYTH: that is the job of Michael. I think He would laugh at your suggestion!

Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… Right, Michael and the angels, NOT SAINTS!

11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death. This is a NEW thought not related to the war in heaven. During the rest of the week the saints will overcome the Beast by the blood of the Lamb; they will lose their head but not their salvation

The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any non-human angels, only to men, that is, to those ascended overcomers of the Manchild(ren) cleansed and empowered by the blood of Jesus. Yes, to saints, but this verse is not related to the war in heaven.

William L in blue, my comments in black

Edited by iamlamad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2019 at 2:49 AM, noblenut said:

as an infant, save from satan by the angel? u better study english again, because what u say is not in the text

Noblenut, I think YOU need to read more closely!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 11:06 PM, Willa said:

Jesus is the One Who had been caught up to heaven.   He will return and rule for 1000 years with a rod of iron.  In John 1 we read the the Word was with God the Father and the Word was God Jesus v.12 and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jesus).  

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This refers to the Church

Only the "remnant" or "rest" refers to the church, and then ONLY to those who were left behind at the rapture; which is why John used "remnant."

The "woman" is referencing ISRAEL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Only the "remnant" or "rest" refers to the church, and then ONLY to those who were left behind at the rapture; which is why John used "remnant."

The "woman" is referencing ISRAEL.

where is the context for this in the rest of scripture, u say something is somethings else and wat is written is not as it says, when has the birth of a child a reference to something else, was the virgin birth symbolic or the birth of isaac figurative, show me the text that says the woman is israel and her infant the church or Jesus

Edited by noblenut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The child was Jesus. He came from the woman, who represents Israel. The dragon tried to kill Jesus while he was a young boy.

show me the gospel that says Jesus was rescued as an infant from satan by the angel and taken to heaven and Gods throne

Edited by noblenut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, noblenut said:

where is the context for this in the rest of scripture, u say something is somethings else and wat is written is not as it says, when has the birth of a child a reference to something else, was the virgin birth symbolic or the birth of isaac figurative, show me the text that says the woman is israel and her infant the church or Jesus

What does "remnant" mean? It is a some amount out of a whole that is remaining.  Of the Greek word, Strong's has:
 

remaining, the rest

the rest of any number or class under consideration

with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number

the rest of the things that remain

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There is no other place in scripture that I know of, that talks of the seed of Israel. However, when we read that they testify of Jesus Christ, we know they are Christian believers. John is telling us there is only a remnant left. Keep in mind, this is chapter 12 and John has not yet arrived at the time the False Prophet has arrived in Jerusalem, so the image and mark have not yet been created, so the days of great tribulation are still in the future. Therefore no one should even imaging the remnant is because the Antichrist Beast has killed them. No, the ONLY reason why there is only a remnant left is simple: it is after the rapture. The rapture took out the main load, and left only a remnant. 

Need another verse? How about the parable of the virgins: only 50% made it in. There are millions today that call themselves "Christian" but have never been taught that they must be born again. Many of these will be left behind. Only born again people will qualify for the rapture, and of those, only born again people who are living for Him. I have made nothing up here: JOHN wrote it, not me. 

I wonder, do you ever read commentaries? Where in the Old does it speak of a rod of iron?

 Psa 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

When most people read Rev. 12:1, I think they think of the constellation Virgo. God put Virgo in the sky to represent the Virgin from which came the Messiah. When they read of the 12 stars for her crown, they think of the 12 tribes of Israel.  The Virgin was a Jewish girl, a descendant of Jacob. When people read 12:2, the virgin pregnant, who wouldn't think of Mary about to give birth to the Messiah?  When people read verse 4, the dragon about to devour the young child as soon as He was born, who (that knows the story of King Herod) would NOT remember how King Herod killed every child under 2 years old, in an attempt to kill the Messiah? 

Verse 5 is screaming out at us, JESUS the Messiah, who is to rule with a rod of Iron. He was born of a virgin, and destined to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords - the very reason King Herod tried to kill Him. Some people argue that in verse 5, the Greek for "caught up" - Harpazo - does not fit. I think that is "nitpicking." It CAN fit Jesus ascending up to heaven 

Question: did the church  or was the church born of a virgin? That is silly! Of course not. 

As my last argument, Jesus TAUGHT me this chapter. Concerning these first five verses, He said:  "I chose to show John how the Dragon tried to kill me as a young child. Those first 5 verses were a 'history lesson' for John."

I would much prefer to trust the words of the Head of the Church, over someone's imagination or human reasoning. Make no mistake, Chapter 12 is about God introducing John to the Dragon, and in particular, what the Dragon will be doing in the last half of the week. The first five verses are written as a parenthesis, having nothing to do with the midpoint of the week, but having much to do with the Dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, noblenut said:

show me the gospel that says Jesus was rescued as an infant from satan by the angel and taken to heaven and Gods throne

I don't know where you get "an angel" out of this passage. You know the story. An ANGEL warned Joseph in a dream to flee to Egypt That is how He escaped from King Herod.  Look, this is the entire life of Christ on earth in ONE VERSE: don't expect details! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 6:58 AM, noblenut said:

he who conquers which  to me makes the most sense

Who is he?

Revelation 19:v. 11

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth Judge and make War. (War? Rev. 12:v.7&3)

Revelation 12:v.7 & 3

And there was War in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon (the Red Dragon); and the Dragon fought and his angels,

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great Red Dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 13:v.1 & 3 & 11-12 & 5-7 & 12-18

1 ... And I saw a Beast rise up out of the Sea (waters) - the FIRST Beast - , having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And I saw one of his (7) heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the Beast.

11 And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth - dry land -; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a Dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the FIRST Beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast, whose deadly wound - of one his 7 heads - was healed.

And there was given unto him - unto the FIRST Beast -  a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue 42 months.

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

12 And he - the Dragon - exerciseth all the power of the FIRST Beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast - the FIRST Beast - ; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the Beast - the FIRST Beast - , which had the wound (verse 3) by a Sword, and did live.

15 And he - the Dragon - had power to give life unto the image of the Beast, that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the Beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

REvelation 12:7-10

And there was War in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his angels,

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: 

11 And they - Michael and his angelsovercame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the Dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the Man child.

Danaiel 12:1-3

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

1 Thessalonians 4:v.15-16 

15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel - MICHAEL - , and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 11:v.15

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

 

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Revelation 20:1-6

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the Dragon - the Red Dragon - , that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

->    Revelation 12:v.9 - 9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.    <-

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them - for example, the twelve Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel-Matt.19:v.28  , and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  -  This is the last millennium, i.e. the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev. 22:v.17 - the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Revelation 22:5-15

6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs  - dogs? who are them? Isaiah 56:v.10-11 and Philippians 3:v.2 - , and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.    Well, He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...