Does “Counted Worthy to Escape” Prove the Pretrib. Rapture?

[Last Daze]

11 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And they rejoiced that they were worthy to suffer shame for his name .

When we are persecuted , killed for his name sake , cast into prison ,  We are being counted WORTHY to SUFFER FOR HIM .

Pre trib is not true .    For it is the righteous JUDGMENT OF GOD that we be COUNTED WORTHY to SUFFER tribulation FOR THE KINGDOM .

Folks are missing many things these days , due to a pre trib teaching man .   

And that we through MUCH tribulation should enter into the kingdom of heaven .   Paul warned folks .  

But today with pre trib , somehow we are counted worthy when we escape the worlds persecution or tribulation .

Not the case .

Its very clear in revelations , AS YOU WELL KNOW ALREADY ,     that the beast , His tribulation cometh against the true saints .

True.  God tells us explicitly in Revelation 13:10 and 14:11-12 who it is that keeps the word of His perseverance.

• If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
• And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”  Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Those who refuse the mark and refuse to worship the image are those who keep the word of His perseverance, even if it means imprisonment or death.  It is those people who will be kept from the time of testing.

[simplejeff]

34 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

It is those people who will be kept from the time of testing.

Note that there are still, and always have been,  "fiery trials" ,  since the first century,  as written....

Suffering,  persecution for all who stand up for the truth,  beatings,  arrests,   humiliating treatment,  scoffing,  belittlement,  accusations,   torture,  execution.

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Note that there are still, and always have been,  "fiery trials" ,  since the first century,  as written....

Suffering,  persecution for all who stand up for the truth,  beatings,  arrests,   humiliating treatment,  scoffing,  belittlement,  accusations,   torture,  execution.

Jeff.     Folks need to really grasp what being counted worthy for the kingdom for which we suffer , MEANS .

DID the early apostels ever teach once , that those who live godly WILL be KEPT from persecution . OR DID they all say , THOSE WHO LIVE GODLY WILL SUFFER PERSECUTION .

Exactly .

Folks don't realize that to suffer for Christ , suffer persecution , hate , prison and tribulation .  IS NOT a curse for those who did evil , BUT A BLESSING for those who did well .

Church is getting things backwards these days .     What apostle did not suffer at the hands of men .  They all did and so did many and still do many even today .

Paul said something , IF you deal with chastenings , GOD deals with ye as sons .  But if ye be without chastisement of some form ,  YE BE BASTARDS and NOT sons .

This whole pre trib concept is off .     The only thing we don't Go under IS THE WRATH OF GOD .  BUT the wrath of men , of the beast , of the system , of the world , WE DO GO UNDER THAT .

ALWAYS has this been and shall it be TILL OUR LORD DO come to destroy the wicked , to sever the wicked from among the just

IN fact it hits a climax near the end .   It gets so bad , there is a one world  total mindset to rid every lamb it can from off the face of the earth .

Tribulations don't get less , nor go away ,     They shall get only worse , till the ultimate climax of the largest tribulation ever wherein many lambs shall die .

But then cometh the end of all that .   CHRIST shall return and the beast and false prophet shall be cast alive into a lake buring with fire

and all their armies and those who had worshiped the beast , shall be destroyed under His wrath .

Till then ,  we better mount up IN THE LORD ,  because I warn us all ,   WE got many pretenders in high places who act as though they are of us , but are nothing but wolves in sheeps attire

and they all Do the bidding of an entity that has filled this house full of dead mens bones and rotted fig doctrine , so vile to even sniff it can cause death .

We got a high one in a high place and the world , even many churches , the religions of the world , ARE DOING ITS BIDDING .    IT is as judas

and hollers unity , unity , enter into my chambers and let us have world peace and unity . But the blind who do enter , know not it is the chambers of death

and its light is darkness and it is great darkness .     And its end and all who do enter will be the second death .    

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

True.  God tells us explicitly in Revelation 13:10 and 14:11-12 who it is that keeps the word of His perseverance.

• If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
• And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”  Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Those who refuse the mark and refuse to worship the image are those who keep the word of His perseverance, even if it means imprisonment or death.  It is those people who will be kept from the time of testing.

YES .  that is it .  These will be kept from the wrath of GOD , And of the LAMB when HE COMES From on high to tread the great winepress of the wrath of GOD .

See , let us notice that any time it speaks of the judgments FROM GOD ,   it is against those who had taken the mark  , worshipped the beast . IN fact no matter

how often GOD sends this judgment , IT SAYS they repented NOT .   This great testing IS the wrath of GOD against the ungodly who believed the lie and shall be damned

For they rejected the love of the truth and had pleasure in unrighteousness .    THUS GOD SENDS .     Okay lets examine this .

GOD SENDS a STRONG DELUSION .      Now lets examine why and what its purpose is .    Before I go on , I must tell us all ,  MOST have no idea GOD will get to this point .

BUT HE WILL . HE has been very longsuffering desiring none to perish ,   But the time of the end will come .

Okay HERE is both why the delusion is sent and what it is .      ANd GOD shall send them strong delusion that they should ,    ONE ,  BELEIVE A LIE

and TWO  BE DAMNED .      DID I jus say that .   YES , but paul said it first .

And WHY ,   because THEY REJECTED ,   as in THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES . THEY rejected the love of the truth and had pleasure in SIN .    just as many do today

calling all sorts of abominations LOVE and having pleasure and denying HIM in every work , being abominable and reprobate unto every good work .

Folks . TIME IS RUNNINGOUT and a delusion has been sent .    BEWARE the Delusion of the all inclusion ,  SHE IS THE ONE .  SHE IS THE ONE that will cause the world

as did babel , to unite as one all under a COMMON PURPOSE .     ITS BAD NEWS and its a delusion no man , woman , no not even a donkey would want to go under .

Because its end , IS TEH SECOND DEATH .     We better be on guard , being both viligant and diligent .     And seeing we KNOW these things before

better ALL take heed lest any does be taken with the error of the wicked and fall from his own steadfastness .    The preachers of today and massive churches

wont warn .  SO the FEW WILL .     For many will be taken in its lure .  

[Revelation Man]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:06 AM, R. Hartono said:

At the 2nd coming the gathered/raptured saints will follow Jesus to Armageddon battle :

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Because the kings of the earth will prepare their army to battle Jesus in Armageddon :

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.          

So Matt 24:31 is the rapture.

It's the Second Coming brother. The Rapture is in verses 36-51, remember, Matthew was not given the understanding so naturally he has it out of order. He thinks it all goes together at the very end. 

Notice, we are gathered from the Four Corners of Heaven, from one end of Heaven to the other. Rev. 19 says we come back with Jesus, which you have cited. 

[JustPassingThru]

22 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

DID the early apostels ever teach once , that those who live godly WILL be KEPT from persecution . OR DID they all say , THOSE WHO LIVE GODLY WILL SUFFER PERSECUTION .

Dear brother, you asked for verses just using the Bible, ...however, may I ask you to answer some questions using your knowledge and wisdom of the Bible?

What was the source of the persecution on the people the early Apostles (and Jesus) were writing to and who persecuted the people the early Apostles (and Jesus) were talking about?

During the seven year Tribulation who's wrath is poured out on the world to persecute it?

Is the source of the persecution the same in both, ...my first question and in the second question?

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Dear brother, you asked for verses just using the Bible, ...however, may I ask you to answer some questions using your knowledge and wisdom of the Bible?

What was the source of the persecution on the people the early Apostles (and Jesus) were writing to and who persecuted the people the early Apostles (and Jesus) were talking about?

During the seven year Tribulation who's wrath is poured out on the world to persecute it?

Is the source of the persecution the same in both, ...my first question and in the second question?

Means what It says .  Let me be long dead before I begin down this kind of road of reason .     What was written to the early church , every ounce applies to us today .

This man is going out a fundie who loves JESUS and wont budge a dot in the direction of the world . But instead will just point to Christ and use every ounce of doctrine

in the bible .    The anti Christ ,beast will go full out wrath against the saints .   GOD , HIS Wrath will come only against those who worshipped the beast .

And there is no middle ground .   I wont budge , but do be encouraged .  

[R. Hartono]

On 6/14/2019 at 8:46 PM, simplejeff said:

Note that there are still, and always have been,  "fiery trials" ,  since the first century,  as written....

Suffering,  persecution for all who stand up for the truth,  beatings,  arrests,   humiliating treatment,  scoffing,  belittlement,  accusations,   torture,  execution.

Didnt all suffer by Noah and he was rescued from the jugment of the world ?  So was Lot being taken out of Sodom be4 the judgment was poured.

 

[R. Hartono]

6 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

What was written to the early church , every ounce applies to us today .

 

The trial is now, not in the Great Tribulation, unless you dont feel it.

1 Pet 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Until the rapture of the church.

1 Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The foolish virgins will yell but God who is about to pour His wrath through the Seals, Trumpets and Vials will not listen.

Matt 25: 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us  12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Those who think they can witness to God in the Great Tribulation may even die earlier in the calamities, wars, famines, murders, plagues, tortures of locusts etc. which God deliberately pour to clean the world from evil people. Do you really think you can escape death when the wrath of the 7 Seals,  7 Trumpets and 7 Vials is poured ? You may not pass the first year.

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

On 6/12/2019 at 5:48 PM, Cletus said:

These passages show we will go thru the trib, and that its to test or prove us.

If you die as martyr would God still need to count you worthy or not ?

Edited June 16, 2019 by R. Hartono